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Topics - cpizzle

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The Fighting Forum / Contemporary vs. Traditional - A Solution?
« on: May 15, 2019, 04:05:59 PM »
I can make many good points as to why "traditional hymns" sung in a "traditional style" are superior to contemporary music.  I can tell you many "flaws and failures" associated with contemporary worship styles as well.

I can also make good points as to why "contemporary worship songs" sung in a "modern style" are superior to tradional music.  I can tell you many "flaws and failures" associated with tradional worship styles.

Thus, if there are "pro's and con's" to both styles it either means one of two things:

1. You can use either style of your choosing.  You just take the "good" with the "bad."  Segreate the church by demographics and preference. 
2. There is a type of music that combines the good parts of both styles that doesn't carry the liabilities of either.  It is impactful and recognizable to both old and young.  It is acceptable to the whole "Body of Christ" and not just localized assemblies.  It honors the past without relegating true worship to those who came before.

I actually believe option #2 is the best choice.  What does this "worship uptopia" look  and sound like....not entirely sure.  I would love to figure it out though!

The Fighting Forum / Message from a Member :)
« on: April 15, 2019, 11:08:56 AM »
My new favorite message from a church member:

"I'm doing my best to give up worldly entertainment, but I am going to finish Game of Thrones!"

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

The Fighting Forum / I Appreciate the Thought....But Is it Too Far?
« on: March 19, 2019, 02:07:27 PM »

From a fellow HAC Alumni in Crown Point, IN:
"My heart has been heavy this week hearing about the mosque shootings in New Zealand. Liz and I decided to drive to the nearest mosque to our church and offer our condolences. Imam Mongy El-Quesny warmly welcomed us into his office and we sat down and talked for awhile. Their congregation is devastated about what happened. Not only devastated but scared. Occasionally, they receive death threats on their voicemail. I asked to hear them and the Imam played a few. The callers sounded like old white, racist drunks. They get these calls on rare occasions from time to time. My church has never received a call like that. The Imam gave us a tour of the facility and invited us to a dinner they are having tonight. Unfortunately, we let them know that we had other plans. We exchanged information and took this picture together before we left.

I think all Christians should show love and compassion to people of all faiths, but I wouldn't embrace an Islamic Imam in the name of Christ.  I don't know exactly where the balance is between "brotherly love" and "be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers...", but I think this is just too far.

I did tell my church Sunday that I wouldn't give any legitimacy to the Islamic faith, but I will introduce myself as a Baptist Pastor, offer condolences for the recent terrorist attack, and pick up the check for the next Muslim family I see at a restaurant (assuming I can tell their religion through outward dress.)

Your thoughts?

The Fighting Forum / Is Lucifer Satan?
« on: September 04, 2018, 08:36:39 AM »
I think I am about the only Baptist Preacher who doesn't believe that Lucifer in the book of Isaiah (nor the Prince of Tyre in Ezekiel) refer to the Devil. 

I have a problem teaching that he was "once good, but turned bad" when Jesus said he was a "murderer from the beginning." (John 8:44)

The Fighting Forum / Genesis - Literally True?
« on: August 15, 2018, 09:51:28 AM »
I believe the book of Genesis is inspired by God and 100% true.

However, that doesn't mean I believe it to always be "literal."

I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old and I don't believe the "days" of creation are 24 hour days.   Scientific evidence totally contradicts this.  Today's "creation scientists" are great people, but I find their evidence lacking. 

BTW, I don't subscribe to theistic evolution nor the "day/age" theory either.

Here is what I believe.  God created the Heaven's and the Earth.  That part I know is true.  How long ago and how long it took....I don't have the answer.  God created men and women in his image and we are not the results of primate evolution.  Oh yea.....and Jesus Saves, which is what I think really matters.

The Fighting Forum / Is there a compromise on Abortion?
« on: July 12, 2018, 07:44:51 AM »
The abortion debate is the most polarizing disagreement in modern America.  You either have to be 100% for it or 100% against it....there is no middle ground.

I have tried to develop a working compromise, but I always fall intellectually (and morally) short.

Is there a compromise to be found on Abortion or are the only options victory and defeat?

Hyles-Anderson College / The Final Death of the "Pants Standard"
« on: February 21, 2018, 09:04:50 AM »
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I believe this will ring in the final death of the "No Pants on Women" standard.  Despite everything, Ms. Cindy was and still is an influence on thousands of HAC attendees.  If she can do it, then they certainly will believe that they can too!

In full disclosure, I used to preach the standard but quit about 10 years ago.  The Biblical basis was always very sketchy.  To me, it always came down to "Men should dress like men and women like women."  The major distinction between men and women's clothing was pants and dresses.  Thus, women must wear dresses to dress like women.  It later dawned on me that there are men and women's socks, shirts, gloves, shoes, scarves, hats, ect... that look very similar, but are still distinct.  Why couldn't there be pants for men and pants for women.

What does this mean for one of the primary foundations of IFB culture?   I think most preachers have already abandoned the standard as a conviction and mostly speak of it as a "good idea" and not a standard.  They will nod and wink to their faithful women who still adhere to the dresses only, but they will not preach it from the pulpit.  Choir members, Sunday School Teachers, and others will still wear dresses to Church out of respect, but they will wear mostly pants the rest of the week.  The remnant that still outlaws pants will become their own "camp" in IFB politics, but they will begin to lose their mainstream status.  HAC and other Christian Colleges will still require dresses on their ladies just like they require ties on their men.  Not because of sin, but because of identity and tradition.

The new "standard" will be about modesty.  Pants are ok, but not too tight.  Shorts are ok, but not too short.  Sleeveless shirts are ok, but not if they are cut low or reveal too much. 

"Oh the times...they are a changing"

Hyles-Anderson College / Team Peru
« on: May 25, 2017, 07:13:54 AM »
Official Statement Regarding Team Peru

Official Statement from FBMI

It grieves us to announce that the leader of Team Peru has disqualified himself from serving as team leader and as an FBMI missionary. We have asked Missionary Zach Foust to assume the responsibilities of team leader for this present time. Zach and Karin Foust have been serving on the team alongside Abraham and Fabiola Avila, Mark and Sarah Rader, and Heather Kokubun for five years. Bro. Foust is the founding pastor of Iglesia Bautista Internacional of San Gabriel in Lima, Peru. We covet your prayers for Team Peru and their church families as well as for the family involved during this time.

The Fighting Forum / Hard Preaching
« on: May 24, 2017, 07:52:44 AM »
The standard definition of "Hard Preaching" is aggressively condemning as much "sin" as possible.  Preaching against booze, britches, Southern Baptists, and other brethren make you a "hard preacher" and tougher than those other guys. 

Let me tell you what is truly "Hard Preaching."

- Learning to control our tempers
- Forgiving those who intentionally hurt us and falsely accuse us
- Not recompensing "evil with evil", but rather "evil with good."
- Loving those who hate us
- Being charitable to someone who doesn't deserve it
- Preaching the Bible accurately while still encouraging your members to live holy through their "Walk with the Spirit."
- Holding Donald Trump to the same standards we held Bill Clinton and Barack Obama
- Telling people to give as God leads them and not by a legalistic, OT tithing doctrine that was done away with on the cross (and trusting God to still meet the needs of the church)
- Preaching that what comes out of our mouths is much more defiling that what goes in (and comes out later...)

Legalism is actually very easy.  No one has to grow Spiritually, only conform outwardly.
Liberty is very difficult.  It requires Christians to "Walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.   I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my why they hate us :(

The exchange is posted below:

Him: Alcohol is condemned in the Bible. Today many are saying that while the Bible condemns drunkenness, it never condemns the moderate use of alcohol. They say that good Christians can be biblically free to enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer on the weekends. Well, does the Bible condemn beverage alcohol? Of course it does. It condemns it both directly and indirectly.

Me: I wish it was that easy. A full prohibition of any and all alcohol consumption would truly help us preachers who know the evil effects of booze. Unfortunately, their is no clear universal condemnation of alcohol consumption in the Bible. Deut. 14:26 even refers to strong drink as a blessing from God. Obviously Jesus drank wine with some alcohol content because the Pharisees called him a glutton and drunkard for "eating and drinking." I certainly caution my people to abstain from all "adult beverages", but I can't categorically state is always a sin and still be true to scripture. It is stupid...and very dangerous to drink, but it might not always be sinful.

Him:  Uninformed on every count.
Deut 14:26 does NOT refer to alcohol.
So if someone falsely accuses you that means they're right? Say what?
I can.
It's a sin.
And I'm true to Scripture.
So before you come off with points that you haven't studied through thoroughly, get in the Book.

Me:  Strong drink in Deut 14:26 doesn't refer to alcohol? They called Jesus a drunkard for drinking grape juice? The disciples didn't drink fermented wine at the wedding feast? (I do believe the wine Jesus made was fresh and not soured because it tasted the best) Once again, we both want our people to stay far from alcohol, but I won't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. (We can discuss later the insulting way you said I don't know the Bible because of our differences in interpretation.)

Him: I chuckle when people make the points you made.
It's like people who say that baptism saves because of a verse they don't understand or haven't studied yet.
It's not a difference in interpretation.
It's a difference in studying.
I'm sorry that your lack of knowledge insults you. That's not my intent.
Truth is.

Me: I am wiling to admit my error if you can prove from the Bible that what I say is incorrect  ;)

Him:  What exactly would you like me to prove wrong? Be specific. I'm not interested in going round and round.

Me:  What is "strong drink" in Deut 14:26? Was alcoholic wine served at the wedding feast?

Him: Just those 2?
I'd be happy to.
Christians who favor drinking seem to ignore plain Scriptures that speak directly against alcohol (Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-35; 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8; etc.), while glorying in Deuteronomy 14:26, an obscure verse that only mentions wine and strong drink in passing.

It may seem strange that God would forbid His Old Testament priests to drink while engaging in worship, yet tell the people they were welcome to drink during worship without regard to age or amount. It sounds strange because it is a contradiction, and because it never happened.

The word in Deuteronomy 14:26 translated "strong drink" or even "beer" by some translations, is the Hebrew word "shekar."

Many authorities theorize that shekar always means an alcoholic drink. But significant authorities disagree. They believe shekar, like the biblical words for wine, could refer either to an alcoholic, or a nonalcoholic drink, but made from fruit other than grapes.

"It is tolerably clear that the general words ‘wine [yayin; oinos]’ and ‘strong drink [shekar]’ do not necessarily imply fermented liquors, the former signifying only a production of the vine, the latter the produce of other fruits than the grape.” -Dr. Lyman Abbott, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge,

Shekar - “Sweet drink (what satiates or intoxicates).” -Dr. Robert Young, Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, Eerdmans, 1970.

“Not only the word yayin, but also shekar can refer to grape juice as well as to wine (cf. Deuteronomy 29:6; Numbers 28:7; Exodus 29:40).” -Dr. Robert P. Teachout in his doctoral dissertation on The Use of Wine in the Old Testament, 1979, Dallas Theological Seminary.

It is also interesting that we get our English words sugar, saccharine, cider from the Hebrew word shekar. These words allude to a root meaning of sweet, rather than alcoholic. Also, cider can mean alcoholic, or nonalcoholic apple juice, just like the original word shekar.

Finally, in that day they could more easily make and preserve nonalcoholic wine and shekar, than the alcoholic kind. Nonalcoholic drinks were common in their day, just as they are in ours.

Me: My final reply (do feel free to rebut....this is your thread, I'm just hijacking it smile emoticon:) ) You claim the clear reading of several Bible verses must mean something different that what they say (strong drink could be non-alcoholic juice????). As I said earlier, I do not favor drinking. I abstain and I tell my congregation all the reasons why I think they should as well. The Bible says drinking is dangerous, can be easily abused, and can do lasting damage to the drinker. Still, it is very very likely that alcohol consumption was basic part of OT and NT life. They didn't always have pure drinking water and fruit juice begins to ferment immediately after it is pressed. We can always debate how much alcohol content was in the wine (or strong drink), but I am confident it had some percentage. I don't see where they distilled wine to make it more alcoholic as we do today. It was just part of their diet. Of course, we have plenty of safe options today, so alcohol consumption is basically obsolete, though still not always sinful. Our congregations should be spiritual enough to avoid alcohol because of the multiple warnings and the protection of their own testimonies. I just can't preach what I don't believe, no matter if I get the result I want. God bless, I enjoyed the discussion. Remember, where the Bible is clear - Unity. Where the Bible is unclear - Liberty. But in all things, Charity.

Him:  Basically, everything you just posted about alcohol is inaccurate.
That's my point. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
As a pastor, I am responsible to preach the whole counsel of God.
Everything I preach, I try to be as well versed as I possibly can.
I'm not into cliches and cool sayings when it comes to truth. I'm into truth.

I taught you about Deut 14:26 after you asked and admitted you'd be open to correction. You choose to simply dismiss it. That's sad.
If you want to be uneducated on the topic, thats completely your prerogative.
However don't come on here posting things that aren't true and expect me not to respond and reprove it.

Another Poster: Are you aware even in biblical times they were interestingly several ways to preserve grape/fruit juice to keep it from fermenting? So talking about "percentage" is erroneous. You remind me of my recent former pastor who uses Ecclesiates 10:19 and Psalm 104:15 as his excuse to imbibe. The bottom line is he drinks beverage alcohol is THIS IS WHAT HE AND HIS WIFE INTENDS TO DO ALL ALONG and seeking to assuage his conscience over it.

Me: I am certainly not looking for reasons to drink. I have always preached against liquor. For years I tried to find every way to make the Bible say it is always wrong, but I just can't come to that conclusion. It is dangerous, it is obsolete, it is unnecessary, it is abusive, it is annoying....but I still can't find a universal condemnation of all alcohol consumption in scripture and I can't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. My motive is not to promote drinking, it is to rightfully divide the word of truth. We may come to different conclusions on the sinfulness of alcohol, but we both agree the Bible paints a very negative picture and Christians should abstain for testimonies sake if for no other reason.

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