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ALAYMAN

  • Standing Ovation? +573/-12
Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« on: October 09, 2019, 02:38:51 PM »
In what sense, if any, do you believe that God loves the non-elect?

ALAYMAN

  • Standing Ovation? +573/-12
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2019, 02:52:43 PM »
Maybe God's love for the non-elect (in the Calvinist framework) is directly proportional to the responses in this query?   :o

Ransom

  • Standing Ovation? +448/-22
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 10:35:24 AM »
In what sense, if any, do you believe that God loves the non-elect?

He lets them live. He gives them their entire lives as ample opportunity to hear and obey the Gospel. Christ was crucified and resurrected publicly as a testimony to all men. He wants them to repent rather than perish. He gives all men common grace (e.g. letting the rain fall on the just and unjust, allowing the wicked to prosper, etc.).

God is not motivated by a sense of duty or obligation toward anyone. He does this for all people because he loves them. Of course this is not love in the same sense as the particular, saving love he has for the elect.
Take care,
Scott



insanely liberal - ALAYMAN
little runt bully - The Rogue Tomato

Twisted

  • Standing Ovation? +97/-2
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 01:30:42 PM »
Of course this is not love in the same sense as the particular, saving love he has for the elect.

Wow.
"And they call *ME* crazy?"

cpizzle

  • Standing Ovation? +39/-0
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 02:17:15 PM »
Ransom,

Help me better understand your position.  Correct any misunderstandings because I don't want to make assumptions about your position.

In overly (and possibly unfairly) simplified terms, The "Calvanist/Reformed" Viewpoint is:
God is soverign.
God always gets what he wants.
If God wants you to be saved, you will respond to his grace.

However, you said "He wants them to repent rather than perish"
How does God "want" them to repent and be saved and yet they don't?
What doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

HammondCheese

  • Standing Ovation? +0/-0
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2019, 03:38:58 PM »
In what sense, if any, do you believe that God loves the non-elect?
He loves the "non-elect", the Gentiles, by bringing the gospel to us which began with the Apostle Paul...  The elect, Israel/Jacob, will have their day in the Millennium once the veil has been lifted, and they receive Jesus as their Christ, the MESSIAH.  Romans 11, et al.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Ransom

  • Standing Ovation? +448/-22
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2019, 04:07:49 PM »
However, you said "He wants them to repent rather than perish"
How does God "want" them to repent and be saved and yet they don't?

Do you question the Bible?

"Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live" (Ezek 18:32-33).

"As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek. 33:11).

But, on the other hand, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44).

So these statements, both spoken directly by God, are both true:

1. God desires that people turn from their sins and not perish in them.
2. No one comes to God except by the power of God.

Please tell me which one I should question, since apparently you think biblical truth contradicts itself.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 04:09:38 PM by Ransom »
Take care,
Scott



insanely liberal - ALAYMAN
little runt bully - The Rogue Tomato

Twisted

  • Standing Ovation? +97/-2
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2019, 05:29:35 PM »
However, you said "He wants them to repent rather than perish"
How does God "want" them to repent and be saved and yet they don't?

Do you question the Bible?

"Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live" (Ezek 18:32-33).

"As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek. 33:11).

But, on the other hand, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44).

So these statements, both spoken directly by God, are both true:

1. God desires that people turn from their sins and not perish in them.
2. No one comes to God except by the power of God.

Please tell me which one I should question, since apparently you think biblical truth contradicts itself.

"And they call *ME* crazy?"

Twisted

  • Standing Ovation? +97/-2
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2019, 05:46:15 PM »

1. God desires...

Why would God "desire" as He is sovereign?
"And they call *ME* crazy?"

Ransom

  • Standing Ovation? +448/-22
Re: Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2019, 11:03:10 PM »
Quote from: Twisted link=topic=10383.msg212510#msg212510

Why would God "desire" as He is sovereign?

Because he is a personal being, with a will. Is God's personality inferior to a human's?
Take care,
Scott



insanely liberal - ALAYMAN
little runt bully - The Rogue Tomato