0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


16KJV11

  • Standing Ovation? +180/-0
Question about 2 Peter 1:
« on: October 17, 2013, 09:29:52 AM »
2 Peter 1:5-10 (KJV)
5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


 I had a question as to the significance of the order of 'these things' that we're supposed to add to our faith in 2 Peter 1. Is there a significance to the order of the additions? Or are we to add these things along side of each other. Simple question, but I'm not sure.
My arm has been TWISTED by RAIDER so it aint my fault.

rsc2a

  • Standing Ovation? +380/-112
Re: Question about 2 Peter 1:
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 09:47:02 AM »
2 Peter 1:5-10 (KJV)
5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


 I had a question as to the significance of the order of 'these things' that we're supposed to add to our faith in 2 Peter 1. Is there a significance to the order of the additions? Or are we to add these things along side of each other. Simple question, but I'm not sure.

I believe the answer is both.

Increased faith leads to increased virtue which leads to increased knowledge leads to increased self-control leads to increased patience leads to....

...but that doesn't mean that we max out on the faith or virtue or knowledge or....so we move to the next category. We can still grow in these former areas while we also grow in the latter categories which will lead to an ever-increasing growth of the latter areas. It's a positive feedback 'problem'.
"So let's suppose I raped your family." - Ransom

The honorable Rev. FSSL, Litt.D., Hon.D.

  • Standing Ovation? +177/-671
Re: Question about 2 Peter 1:
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 10:32:24 AM »
Peter is borrowing these virtues from the Greeks. There is no real, particular order to these. Insisting on an order will result in some absurdities. [below]

The REAL point of this passage is in verses 3-4 and verses 10-11 which act like bookends on a shelf.

Peter borrows these to show that, unlike the man-centered Greeks, these virtues are God-endowed. They are meant for ALL believers, not a special virtuous class of Greek. ALL believers can and must put on these virtues. They are not a second-rate class of people under Greek philosophers.

vs. 3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,

vs 10 - "...give diligence to make your calling and election sure"






If these were like a staircase where one needed to be in place before the other, then it lends to some quirky ideas:

Are we to wait for knowledge, temperance and patience BEFORE we aim for godliness?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 10:34:07 AM by FSSL »
WELCOME TO OUR FORUM! I am the resident "skeptic, critic, purveyor of doubt, self-contradicting, silly, weak-minded, ridiculous, inconsistent, superstitious zealot, deceptive equivocator, hell-bent, disbeliever, contemptuous, doubter, hypocrite, thumb twittler, lying, jackass...

rsc2a

  • Standing Ovation? +380/-112
Re: Question about 2 Peter 1:
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 10:43:14 AM »
Quote from: FSSL
Are we to wait for knowledge, temperance and patience BEFORE we aim for godliness?

But one could argue that self-control is a lot easier with knowledge and that practicing self-control is a good way to learn patience, no? (This is the order presented in the verses.)
"So let's suppose I raped your family." - Ransom

16KJV11

  • Standing Ovation? +180/-0
Re: Question about 2 Peter 1:
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 11:09:12 AM »
Quote from: FSSL
Are we to wait for knowledge, temperance and patience BEFORE we aim for godliness?

But one could argue that self-control is a lot easier with knowledge and that practicing self-control is a good way to learn patience, no? (This is the order presented in the verses.)
And without virtue (moral excellence), it may be very difficult to add real biblical knowledge.
ill. If you are living in sin as a Christian, understanding biblical truth is much more difficult.
That makes a lot of sense, especially in light of my own experience as a young Christian (with the sins of the flesh I was involved with) as well as counseling people who are living in sin.
Their understanding of biblical truth is minimal.   
My arm has been TWISTED by RAIDER so it aint my fault.

The honorable Rev. FSSL, Litt.D., Hon.D.

  • Standing Ovation? +177/-671
Re: Question about 2 Peter 1:
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 11:26:49 AM »
If the staircase has convoluted steps, then it isn't a staircase.

The word "add" ONLY appears before faith. I do not see a progression like a staircase as much as a line of silos listing of virtues that ALL need to increase.

Frankly, we are at all different levels of knowledge and temperance and need to work on the various silos.

Again... the focus of the passage is NOT the order in which these appear, but the divine power enabling these virtues.
WELCOME TO OUR FORUM! I am the resident "skeptic, critic, purveyor of doubt, self-contradicting, silly, weak-minded, ridiculous, inconsistent, superstitious zealot, deceptive equivocator, hell-bent, disbeliever, contemptuous, doubter, hypocrite, thumb twittler, lying, jackass...