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S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 11:42:09 AM »

It is only during the present church age that we are baptized into the body of Christ. 

This is true, an indisputable fact.

The question is...what does it mean to be "Baptized with the Holy Ghost?"

We don't have to wonder, for both John and Christ define it for us:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


In view is what Christ will do at a future time, and it is speaking of the Judgment of Christ. There are two options laid to those whom John rebukes, Eternal Life (depicted in terms of Christ gathering His Wheat (believers)) and Eternal Judgment (depicted by chaff being burned with unquenchable fire, familiar terminology the Lord uses to describe eternal judgment).

Those who try to impose a "baptism with fire" as something applicable to Christians, rather than the contrast it is (of eternal judgment), overlook John's definition of what he says, as well as the fact that we see no mention of fire in Luke:


Luke 3:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;

16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.


Now, lets see the Lord Himself define the Baptism with the Holy Ghost:



Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



He defines it as "the Promise of the Father," which, He saith...they had heard of Him.

So what did Christ teach that can be related to the Promise of the Father? John 14-16 stands out. Well, The Lord goes on to further define this...


Acts 1:7-8
King James Version (KJV)

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.



While most view the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as an "empowering," a few things I would point out would be...

1. The Spirit of God has always empowered men;

2. That does not fit with the text, or concept, because in view is something that has never happened before;

3. "Receiving power" is what happens after the Holy Ghost comes upon them;

4. They had been been empowered to preach before;

5. Viewing "empowerment" as being in view conflicts with John's prophecy in that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost does not speak of what men will do, but what Christ will do (baptize with the Holy Ghost;

6. The Eternal Indwelling of God is yet imminent, it has not happened, and that this is the Promise of the Father in view, and that this is the teaching Christ refers to in v.5 fits not just this passage but the majority of passages dealing with salvation in Christ.


All who are saved during this age, all who were saved before Pentecost, and all who will be saved after the rapture of the church are regenerated.

How can one be born again when we are born again by the Blood of Christ and His Resurrection?


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,



How does beget again unto a living hope by the Resurrection of Christ...before the Resurrection?

Secondly, brother, how does God beget again by the Gospel which was not revealed in the Age of Law (nor any Age prior to it)?


1 Peter 1:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



That the Gospel of Jesus Christ is specific to Regeneration is made clear:


1 Peter 1:9-12
King James Version (KJV)

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.



While one might point to the Spirit of Christ being in them, what we have to do to equate that with Eternal Indwelling as promised by the Father and taught of by Christ is...

1. Ignore that Eternal Indwelling did not begin until after Christ returned to Heaven and sent the Comforter;

2. Ignore that the Prophets ministered unto us the "grace that should come;"

3. That the Prophecy testified of "the glory that should follow (the suffering of Christ);"

4. That those preaching the Gospel do so "with the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven (the Comforter Christ taught them of, which was promised by the Father (Ezekiel 36:27).


So all I would ask, brother, is that you look at the reasons why we would not view men to have been born again prior to the fulfillment of the promises of God (which Israel will benefit from when they too, nationally, come under the New Covenant) and to address those issues.


God bless.

The honorable Rev. FSSL, Litt.D., Hon.D.

  • Standing Ovation? +177/-671
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 12:30:06 PM »
This is where many Dispensationalists overstate themselves to maintain a discontinuity. Unfortunately, Scofield had created some confusion on this.

I believe that...
... if the OT saint was totally depraved (and he was)...
... if the OT saint needed a miraculous intervention and given a new heart (and he was)...

... then Jesus is correct in saying that a person (without distinction) must be regenerated by the Spirit.

Jesus said, John 3:5-8 "5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
WELCOME TO OUR FORUM! I am the resident "skeptic, critic, purveyor of doubt, self-contradicting, silly, weak-minded, ridiculous, inconsistent, superstitious zealot, deceptive equivocator, hell-bent, disbeliever, contemptuous, doubter, hypocrite, thumb twittler, lying, jackass...

Twisted

  • Standing Ovation? +97/-2
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 12:54:08 PM »
This is where many Dispensationalists overstate themselves to maintain a discontinuity. Unfortunately, Scofield had created some confusion on this.

I believe that...
... if the OT saint was totally depraved (and he was)...
... if the OT saint needed a miraculous intervention and given a new heart (and he was)...

... then Jesus is correct in saying that a person (without distinction) must be regenerated by the Spirit.

Jesus said, John 3:5-8 "5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Nice to believe, but it just ain't so.

No OT believer was spiritually circumcised.
"And they call *ME* crazy!"

The honorable Rev. FSSL, Litt.D., Hon.D.

  • Standing Ovation? +177/-671
Regeneration
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 01:20:14 PM »
Jesus is speaking to an OT person.

According to Dispensationalism, Nicodemus is not NT.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 01:39:39 PM by FSSL »
WELCOME TO OUR FORUM! I am the resident "skeptic, critic, purveyor of doubt, self-contradicting, silly, weak-minded, ridiculous, inconsistent, superstitious zealot, deceptive equivocator, hell-bent, disbeliever, contemptuous, doubter, hypocrite, thumb twittler, lying, jackass...

S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 10:11:04 AM »
This is where many Dispensationalists overstate themselves to maintain a discontinuity. Unfortunately, Scofield had created some confusion on this.

I believe that...
... if the OT saint was totally depraved (and he was)...
... if the OT saint needed a miraculous intervention and given a new heart (and he was)...

... then Jesus is correct in saying that a person (without distinction) must be regenerated by the Spirit.

Jesus said, John 3:5-8 "5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Thank you for the response, FSSL, and this is probably the only argument that those who believe men were born again before Pentecost have to offer ("If the Lord told Nicodemus he must be born again it must have been possible.).

However, the Lord also told the people they must believe on Him, and we see that not one person was believing on the resurrected Lord (see previous posts, this is addressed in detail).

The primary point I would raise, in hopes that a conversation might be started, is that Reconciliation was accomplished by Christ through His Work. We see numerous promises and teachings concerning the coming of the Holy Ghost (the distinctly different ministry He would perform when He came as Comforter after Christ's return to Heaven) which makes it impossible to have men receiving the Spirit that was promised, which leads to the conclusion that if men were inf act born again before Pentecost, then we have two classes of Christians/believers, those who are immersed into God in eternal union, and those...simply born again.

Regeneration is not possible apart from our being in God in eternal union, which Christ teaches concerning in John 14 extensively. He makes it clear that their/our union with God was a future event, and in that day He would be in the Father, and we in Him, and He in us. This union is why we are "new creatures."

But, in regards to the terminology of John 3, which I am sure you are more than familiar with, we see that the Lord stipulates men being born of water (the Word of God, specifically the Gospel, for that is how we are born again) and of the Spirit. Being born "from above" is the equivalent of being born of God as taught in John 1, so I would suggest we have the Lord teaching the same event in John 3 as we see described by John in Chapter One:


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



The "power to become the sons of God" is linked to the Incarnation, which is another indication that regeneration did not take place prior to Christ's coming. And when we consider the statements of Christ and the Apostles, it is hard to support a dichotomy among believers in which we have those who are born again yet not in eternal union with God, or, those who are born again yet un-redeemed. Christ redeemed the Old Testament saints through His death:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



Redemption was but a promise in the Old Testament, accomplished by Christ through His Work, which included His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension (return to Heaven). While the Spirit was with the disciples, He was not in them (in eternal union, as He would be when He was sent (in the specific Ministry of Comforter)). While the disciples believed in the capacity given them, within the Revelation provided them, not one of them was believing in Christ as the Risen Savior, for their expectations were physical, which is the understanding they had from the Revelation the Old Testament provided.

Yes, the Lord told Nicodemus he must be born again, but, He also told everyone they must believe on Him, to which...we have not the first person we can present from Scripture that understood that the Kingdom Christ would establish was not physical, but spiritual and Eternal.

Consider Peter denying the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which must be distinguished from "the Gospel of the Kingdom," which was the good news within the framework of the Law and the current revelation provided men):


Matthew 16:20-23

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.[/size]



Peter goes on to try to keep the Lord from the Cross with a sword, because he had expectation of a physical kingdom. He would then go on to deny he even knew the Lord, fulfilling prophecy that the sheep would be scattered. Then, after the Lord rises, he (nor the other ten disciples) does not believe:


Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.



Were they believers? Yes, according to the capacity given them within the framework of revelation provided. Saved? Yes, for their eternal destiny, being justified by God through faith, was just as secure as yours or mine.

But born again? New Creatures? No.

The new creature is the result of immersion into God, or, the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. The Church began at Pentecost, made up of men who believed the Gospel which was sent down from Heaven, which coincides with the coming of the Comforter. Men were justified by grace through faith in the Old Testament, but, apart from eternal redemption and through physical means (sacrificial system established in the Garden). We see them mentioned in Chapter Eleven of Hebrews, and are told they died in faith, not receiving the promise/s, that they should not be made perfect/complete (which deals with Remission of Sins, a key factor in Redemption) without us (those of us in relationship with God through the New Covenant). In Chapter Twelve we see the Church distinguished from the "spirits of just men made perfect," who are the Old Testament Saints who were made perfect after death, as contrasted with our being made perfect at salvation upon confession of Christ.

Okay sorry, didn't mean to go on so long, but, it's a favorite topic of mine, lol, so I can get long-winded.

God bless.




« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 12:48:50 PM by S.T.Ranger »

S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 10:14:35 AM »

This is where many Dispensationalists overstate themselves to maintain a discontinuity. Unfortunately, Scofield had created some confusion on this.

I believe that...
... if the OT saint was totally depraved (and he was)...
... if the OT saint needed a miraculous intervention and given a new heart (and he was)...

... then Jesus is correct in saying that a person (without distinction) must be regenerated by the Spirit.

Jesus said, John 3:5-8 "5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Nice to believe, but it just ain't so.

No OT believer was spiritually circumcised.

This is true. The Old Testament Economies provided physical provision which is often contrasted with the spiritual and Eternal provision afforded us through Christ. Manna, for example, yields to the True Bread, the Living Bread, which alone can provide eternal life.

Another contrast I think few recognize is "the True Vine." The question I would pose to this Forum is, what is the Vine that is not the True Vine?


God bless.

The honorable Rev. FSSL, Litt.D., Hon.D.

  • Standing Ovation? +177/-671
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 08:32:48 PM »
Thank you for the response, FSSL, and this is probably the only argument that those who believe men were born again before Pentecost have to offer ("If the Lord told Nicodemus he must be born again it must have been possible.).

Not my only argument, but I chose to start here. Since this was before Pentecost/Matthew 16/Matthew 28 (wherever the brand of Dispensationalist believes is the start of the new economy called the "Church Age" or "Age of Grace"), it is a valid point. The offer to be "born again" and the "Spirit begetting a spirit" was given and rejected BEFORE any of the Dispensationalist timeframes.

There is more from the OT that I can get into, but for now, I am getting somewhat confused by this discussion. That is why I am not dealing with everything you posit in the post above. It is too lengthy and meandering for me to deal with.

For this reason, I am going to deal with only one issue at a time.

Quote
Were they believers? Yes, according to the capacity given them within the framework of revelation provided. Saved? Yes, for their eternal destiny, being justified by God through faith, was just as secure as yours or mine.

But born again? New Creatures? No.

Your point is that the OT saint can have Salvation without Regeneration. Since Regeneration involves a 100% new spiritual person, I cannot understand why you think the OT person was not regenerated.

"Born again" was a common concept during the time of Christ. It was used throughout secular society. Jesus took the common phrase and gave it a spiritual significance. So, no. We would not expect to see it in the OT because it was not a Hebraism. That does not mean that regeneration did not occur in the OT.

*** as a reference point, I am a Dispensationalist.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:35:21 PM by FSSL »
WELCOME TO OUR FORUM! I am the resident "skeptic, critic, purveyor of doubt, self-contradicting, silly, weak-minded, ridiculous, inconsistent, superstitious zealot, deceptive equivocator, hell-bent, disbeliever, contemptuous, doubter, hypocrite, thumb twittler, lying, jackass...

S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2017, 12:09:14 PM »
Thank you for the response, FSSL, and this is probably the only argument that those who believe men were born again before Pentecost have to offer ("If the Lord told Nicodemus he must be born again it must have been possible.).

Not my only argument, but I chose to start here. Since this was before Pentecost/Matthew 16/Matthew 28 (wherever the brand of Dispensationalist believes is the start of the new economy called the "Church Age" or "Age of Grace"), it is a valid point.

I will be glad to see other arguments, that should make the discussion more enjoyable.


The offer to be "born again" and the "Spirit begetting a spirit" was given and rejected BEFORE any of the Dispensationalist timeframes.

The promise of new birth was given, this is true, but, as Hebrews 11 makes it clear, the Old Testament Saints received not the promises.

We see a contrast between the Promise and the required/demanded obedience in these two passages:


Conditions then...


Ezekiel 18:30-32

King James Version (KJV)

30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.


Conditions of the Promise...


Ezekiel 36:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


"You must!" becomes "I will..."


There is more from the OT that I can get into, but for now, I am getting somewhat confused by this discussion.

If you have the time, perhaps a read of the earlier posts. They were given for reference, though they seem long. This is not an issue that can be settled quickly, and I would suggest that while there are a few arguments for regeneration prior to Pentecost, this still leaves addressing the many arguments and points which correlate eternal union with God with salvation and regeneration. In other words, under New Covenant conditions, we cannot have salvation apart from regeneration, or, the individual immersed into GOd in eternal union.

We do see that in the Old Testament, where men did not receive the promised Spirit (until after Christ was glorified (returned to Heaven, John 17:1-5)), nor did they receive Remission of sins on an eternal basis, whereby they were eternal redeemed of Christ.


That is why I am not dealing with everything you posit in the post above. It is too lengthy and meandering for me to deal with.

I will break this one up into two segments to make it a little easier to view.

For this reason, I am going to deal with only one issue at a time.

That sounds good. Just let me know which issue you would like to look at. I actually prefer threshing out each point individually.


Continued...


S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2017, 12:25:35 PM »

Quote
Were they believers? Yes, according to the capacity given them within the framework of revelation provided. Saved? Yes, for their eternal destiny, being justified by God through faith, was just as secure as yours or mine.

But born again? New Creatures? No.

Your point is that the OT saint can have Salvation without Regeneration.

Not salvation according to New Covenant conditions, no, because we have to see the Old Testament Saint not only receive the promise of the Spirit, but the promise of remission of sins on an eternal basis.

Saved, as I said, from an eternal perspective in which due to being justified by grace through faith, the penalty for sin they died still owing was not exacted, but, grace was given them (which is why the Just went to Hades rather than Heaven prior to the Cross).

I would suggest to you that both James and Paul speak of the same justification, which was a result of what Abraham did. That should not be equated to being Justified by the Blood of Christ.

So when the Old Testament Saint died, their eternal destiny had been secured through faith in God, but, until their sins were atoned for they were not reconciled to God. Remember, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, which sets a point in time for Reconciliation. Just as John, in the First Chapter, sets a point in time when men were given the power to become the sons of God, which is defined as being born of God, which is what the Lord is speaking of in John 3 when He states men must be born of water and Spirit, and born from above, and born again.


Since Regeneration involves a 100% new spiritual person, I cannot understand why you think the OT person was not regenerated.

We might have separate views on what it means to be a new creature. I do not take the view that at regeneration we are either spiritually remade or become spiritually adept. We are, as birth implies, newborn babes...in the spiritual. How we are "new" is that unlike our former condition, which was one of separation from God in terms of spiritual and eternal relationship (not yet reconciled), we are now immersed into God (He in us and we in Him, as Christ teaches in John 14 (which was future event for the disciples)). Just as God promised that He would put His Spirit within us that we might walk in His statutes and keep His judgments, even so that is why we are "new."

It is a spiritual resurrection of that which was dead.

Secondly, we have a new heart and a new spirit in the sense of our attitudes towards God. Whereas before we were blind to the spiritual things of God, now having understanding through our Teacher, the Comforter, our outlook on life has drastically changed. But, to be clear, that outlook is not regeneration, it is a result of regeneration, which is the result of being placed in Christ. Most people view being born again as a "turning over of a new leaf," so to speak. THis is true, let's just not confuse that with the spiritual resurrection that regeneration is.

Lastly, we know that the Old Testament Saint did not receive the benefits established by Christ when He established the New Covenant. To try to impose reception of, for example, "The True Bread from Heaven" simply conflicts with Prophecy and fulfillment of Prophecy. To try to impose a condition on the Old Testament Saint in which they died having received the promises also conflicts with numerous passages.

No Old Testament Saint was made alive through Christ until Christ actually came and established the basis for Eternal Redemption, which was established through His Blood (Death).

Okay, will make it three segments, lol.


Continued...


S.T.Ranger

  • Standing Ovation? +1/-0
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2017, 12:37:29 PM »

"Born again" was a common concept during the time of Christ. It was used throughout secular society.

I don't see that as being significant, because we wouldn't equate the Lord's teaching with a secular concept. No matter what people understood "being born again" to mean, it doesn't nullify Christ's, John's, Paul's, Peter's, or James' defining of the Biblical Doctrine.

And what we conclude when we place all of their teachings together is that Regeneration is being born of God through reception of Christ and the Gospel. And the Gospel was a Mystery not revealed to Saints in past Ages, so it is not likely men were trusting in Christ and being born again. A few passages that make that statement:



Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



Colossians 1:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Now this second passage has a context of Gentile Inclusion, but, we still cannot nullify that the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ was hid from Ages and Generations past. And the Mystery is centered on the Indwelling of Christ in the believer. Again, Regeneration cannot be separated from the Eternal Indwelling of God in believers which did not begin Prior to the Promised Spirit being sent, which occurred on the Day of Pentecost. We know it had not happened, and could not happen until Christ returned to Heaven, which is seen in Acts 1:4-5, where the Lord states the disciples will be Baptized in the Holy Ghost not many days hence. While most, whether Charismatic, Evangelical, Catholic, or Protestant, define the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as an "empowerment," John the Baptist defines it as the difference between eternal salvation and eternal judgment:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


And forget I said anything about segments, lol, I will just post these as separate points for you to consider.


Continued...