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TidesofTruth

  • Standing Ovation? +65/-3
Let me say first that 1 person in the IFB is too many and 1 case not disciplined properly in an IFB church creates a nightmare.

I was quite surprised at the relatively low number of these allegations.  We are talking about conservatively nearly 60 years of IFB churches x how many churches x how many teachers, pastors, asst pastors, principals, camp counselors/directors that must number in the hundreds of thousands by now.  And given that all men at their core are wicked, I would have easily thought the number to be much, much higher.   I get it, the number should be 0 but that wont happen until Jesus returns.  I can't wait til He sorts all this out.

What a load of b@ll@cks. All of the cases reported by the Star Telegram have occurred within a reportable timeframe (within the last two decades) because prior to that, reporting of abuse could only be local, a limitation created by limitations in communication. It's with the advent of the internet that reporting of abuse has been able to be communicated widely. It has nothing to do with incidence but rather with communication availability.

The ST cited statistics of 6000 IFB churches in the US. 412 cases from 6000 churches means that REPORTED cases of child molesting in IFB churches is at 6.8%. That's REPORTED cases, which means that the total cases are anywhere from 10.2% to 13.6%. All three statistics are higher than the norm for any group, including the mainstream public.  Yes, it is statistically safer for a child to walk down a street alone than to enter an IFB church alone or attend an IFB Sunday School class alone.

Yes of course DH and JER (which is a major portion of the original motivation of this story) happened In the late 90's according to these new metrics you have discovered.   /rolleyes

This statement "Yes, it is statistically safer for a child to walk down a street alone than to enter an IFB church alone or attend an IFB Sunday School class alone."  Proves Mark Twain a Prophet

"Figures never lie, but liars figure" -Mark Twain




The ST discovered 412 cases out of 6000 churches. That means that 6.8% of IFB churches had reported cases of sexual abuse of children, most by PASTORS and ALL covered up by pastors. Those statistics show a very dangerous culture.

This is patently false. All 412 cases were most certainly not covered up by the pastor. Many were properly reported to the authorities. Others were dealt with in church discipline as the pastor deemed appropriate. This is not a wise decision by those pastors, but it is not a cover-up.

Granted, all 412 of them should have been immediately reported. 1 cover-up is too many.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 05:56:28 AM by TidesofTruth »

Binaca Chugger

  • Standing Ovation? +380/-3
Let me say first that 1 person in the IFB is too many and 1 case not disciplined properly in an IFB church creates a nightmare.

I was quite surprised at the relatively low number of these allegations.  We are talking about conservatively nearly 60 years of IFB churches x how many churches x how many teachers, pastors, asst pastors, principals, camp counselors/directors that must number in the hundreds of thousands by now.  And given that all men at their core are wicked, I would have easily thought the number to be much, much higher.   I get it, the number should be 0 but that wont happen until Jesus returns.  I can't wait til He sorts all this out.


What a load of b@ll@cks. All of the cases reported by the Star Telegram have occurred within a reportable timeframe (within the last two decades) because prior to that, reporting of abuse could only be local, a limitation created by limitations in communication. It's with the advent of the internet that reporting of abuse has been able to be communicated widely. It has nothing to do with incidence but rather with communication availability.

The ST cited statistics of 6000 IFB churches in the US. 412 cases from 6000 churches means that REPORTED cases of child molesting in IFB churches is at 6.8%. That's REPORTED cases, which means that the total cases are anywhere from 10.2% to 13.6%. All three statistics are higher than the norm for any group, including the mainstream public.  Yes, it is statistically safer for a child to walk down a street alone than to enter an IFB church alone or attend an IFB Sunday School class alone.

You are just so wrong.  How can you claim to know anything about this subject and be this wrong?  JER is working to change the laws in Indiana so that she can have DH prosecuted.  The main case of abuse that this article is centered on is past the statute of limitations.  Most of these are past the statute of limitations.  DUH!!! 

Your math is wrong.  So wrong.  You practice fuzzy math.  Either you are intentionally misapplying statistics (a common theme among those in our culture who seek to sway opinion with numbers) or you are just ignorant of the facts.  Do some research and then get back with us.  I posted some numbers on another thread - that might be a good start for you.

AnkleBone:  Do you believe the Ninth Commandment applies to you?
Not that I'm saying, but I'm just saying that that's what they say.

qwerty

  • Standing Ovation? +164/-6
You are just so wrong.  How can you claim to know anything about this subject and be this wrong?  JER is working to change the laws in Indiana so that she can have DH prosecuted. 

Negative....

She is most likely changing the law to help future victims, but you can not change a law, then prosecute past crimes based on the updated law.  Some laws can be enforced ex post facto, such as registration for sex offenders, but in this case, they will not be able to prosecute him.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 11:17:53 AM by qwerty »

Binaca Chugger

  • Standing Ovation? +380/-3
You are just so wrong.  How can you claim to know anything about this subject and be this wrong?  JER is working to change the laws in Indiana so that she can have DH prosecuted. 

Negative....

She is most likely changing the law to help future victims, but you can not change a law, then prosecute past crimes based on the updated law.  Some laws can be enforced ex post facto, such as registration for sex offenders, but in this case, they will not be able to prosecute him.

Good point.
Not that I'm saying, but I'm just saying that that's what they say.

AnkleBone

  • Standing Ovation? +0/-0

You are just so wrong.  How can you claim to know anything about this subject and be this wrong?  JER is working to change the laws in Indiana so that she can have DH prosecuted.  The main case of abuse that this article is centered on is past the statute of limitations.  Most of these are past the statute of limitations.  DUH!!! 

Your math is wrong.  So wrong.  You practice fuzzy math.  Either you are intentionally misapplying statistics (a common theme among those in our culture who seek to sway opinion with numbers) or you are just ignorant of the facts.  Do some research and then get back with us.  I posted some numbers on another thread - that might be a good start for you.

AnkleBone:  Do you believe the Ninth Commandment applies to you?

Name one of the 412 cases where church discipline was applied.
How does being past the SOL make it OK for a church to continue a cover up? And how does that make a church safe?
And since JER is not a pastor, that doesn't apply to the level of danger within local IFB churches.

AnkleBone

  • Standing Ovation? +0/-0
So, the IFB has dismissed the record of 412 cases of child molesting in the IFB. Apparently there is some "minimal acceptable level" of children being abused in the IFB, even by IFB pastors, that prompts the IFB to dismiss these startling statistics. Definitely, these churches are not going for zero occurrence.  They are content to allow 412 cases to remain unexamined, uninvestigated, nobody rebuked, no policies changed. Things will simply continue as they are. As long as IFB leaders can prop up some sort of defense that "412 is really not all that many," they will retreat back into their own arrogance. After all, they have short hair and believe in owning guns and low taxes, just like Jesus taught. And waving a KJV really does impress God much more so than repentance and change.

TidesofTruth

  • Standing Ovation? +65/-3
So, the IFB has dismissed the record of 412 cases of child molesting in the IFB. Apparently there is some "minimal acceptable level" of children being abused in the IFB, even by IFB pastors, that prompts the IFB to dismiss these startling statistics. Definitely, these churches are not going for zero occurrence.  They are content to allow 412 cases to remain unexamined, uninvestigated, nobody rebuked, no policies changed. Things will simply continue as they are. As long as IFB leaders can prop up some sort of defense that "412 is really not all that many," they will retreat back into their own arrogance. After all, they have short hair and believe in owning guns and low taxes, just like Jesus taught. And waving a KJV really does impress God much more so than repentance and change.

You're a special kind of moron aren't you. 

IFBDS

Independent Fundamental Baptist Derangement Syndrome.

Get Help.


AnkleBone

  • Standing Ovation? +0/-0


You're a special kind of moron aren't you. 

IFBDS

Independent Fundamental Baptist Derangement Syndrome.

Get Help.
[/quote]
Thanks for not calling me gay or an atheist, the two favorite counters when an IFBer/HACer has no rational answer to make and cannot refute a statement.

16KJV11

  • Standing Ovation? +180/-0
So, the IFB has dismissed the record of 412 cases of child molesting in the IFB. Apparently there is some "minimal acceptable level" of children being abused in the IFB, even by IFB pastors, that prompts the IFB to dismiss these startling statistics. Definitely, these churches are not going for zero occurrence.  They are content to allow 412 cases to remain unexamined, uninvestigated, nobody rebuked, no policies changed. Things will simply continue as they are. As long as IFB leaders can prop up some sort of defense that "412 is really not all that many," they will retreat back into their own arrogance. After all, they have short hair and believe in owning guns and low taxes, just like Jesus taught. And waving a KJV really does impress God much more so than repentance and change.
I'm still trying to figure out who this 'They' is?   They are content, the IFB leaders etc. We are Independent.  Our "leaders" as you call them have 'zero' power to control, 'call the shots', revoke membership, etc, any church or preacher anywhere, any time or at any place.  We are not a denomination, we are I n d e p e n d e n t.  Neither Jack Trieber, Bob Gray Jr. nor Paul Chappell, or any other big name preacher has any, no not one eensy weensy minute say as to what goes on at my church nor any REAL IFB church. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 11:34:22 AM by 16KJV11 »
My arm has been TWISTED by RAIDER so it aint my fault.

Binaca Chugger

  • Standing Ovation? +380/-3
So, the IFB has dismissed the record of 412 cases of child molesting in the IFB. Apparently there is some "minimal acceptable level" of children being abused in the IFB, even by IFB pastors, that prompts the IFB to dismiss these startling statistics. Definitely, these churches are not going for zero occurrence.  They are content to allow 412 cases to remain unexamined, uninvestigated, nobody rebuked, no policies changed. Things will simply continue as they are. As long as IFB leaders can prop up some sort of defense that "412 is really not all that many," they will retreat back into their own arrogance. After all, they have short hair and believe in owning guns and low taxes, just like Jesus taught. And waving a KJV really does impress God much more so than repentance and change.

You're a special kind of moron aren't you. 

IFBDS

Independent Fundamental Baptist Derangement Syndrome.

Get Help.

Twould seem bitterness has so filled Anklebone that he/she cannot process information.
Not that I'm saying, but I'm just saying that that's what they say.