Author Topic: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.  (Read 8464 times)

ALAYMAN

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Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« on: March 06, 2012, 06:57:31 PM »
"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at thereformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor I believe any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with the government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men".--Spurgeon

Izdaari

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 07:02:43 PM »
The part about Baptists existing before Luther or Calvin is baloney.
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.

ALAYMAN

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 07:04:13 PM »
The part about Baptists existing before Luther or Calvin is baloney.

Not in the sense that Chuck qualified it.

Izdaari

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 07:05:59 PM »
The part about Baptists existing before Luther or Calvin is baloney.

Not in the sense that Chuck qualified it.

Sure, and Izdaarians have existed in an unbroken line from the Apostles too.  :P
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.

brianb

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 07:09:34 PM »
"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at thereformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor I believe any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with the government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men".--Spurgeon

Sir Isaac Newton:    "The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome."

Izdaari

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 07:13:20 PM »
However, I totally agree with Spurgeon that the church should not associate itself with the state, and should always allow liberty of conscience.
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.

brianb

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 07:14:05 PM »
The part about Baptists existing before Luther or Calvin is baloney.


Only if you can prove that one or more of the quotes on this page is baloney. Except for the Hosius quote - it seems farfetched to me - there was no group called baptists in 1524 or before that.  There were groups that were called anabaptists because they re-baptized Catholics.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Baptists-954/2008/6/Baptist-Beliefs-2.htm

« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 07:31:02 PM by brianb »

Izdaari

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 07:16:07 PM »
The part about Baptists existing before Luther or Calvin is baloney.


Only if you can prove that one or more of the quotes on this page is baloney.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Baptists-954/2008/6/Baptist-Beliefs-2.htm


No. The claim that Baptists have existed in an unbroken line since the Apostles is contrary to accepted church history, and therefore it bears the burden of proof.
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.

ALAYMAN

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 07:17:40 PM »
Quote from: Izdaari
Sure, and Izdaarians have existed in an unbroken line from the Apostles too.  :P


Shazbot... nanu-nanu.


:D


Quote from: Izzi
No. The claim that Baptists have existed in an unbroken line since the Apostles is contrary to accepted church history, and therefore it bears the burden of proof.

Whose version of "history" are you declaring to be authoritative and impeccable in the matter?

Izdaari

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Re: Are you a Baptist with a big B? Chuck certainly was.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 07:25:09 PM »
Quote from: Izdaari
Sure, and Izdaarians have existed in an unbroken line from the Apostles too.  :P


Shazbot... nanu-nanu.


:D


Quote from: Izzi
No. The claim that Baptists have existed in an unbroken line since the Apostles is contrary to accepted church history, and therefore it bears the burden of proof.

Whose version of "history" are you declaring to be authoritative and impeccable in the matter?

"Authoritative and impeccable" is more than I claimed. Accepted by the majority of professors in accredited seminaries will do. I've never heard anyone other than the Landmark nuts claim that Baptists are older than Luther or Calvin. I wouldn't call Spurgeon a nut, but he sure crawled out on a limb there.
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.