Author Topic: Ray Comfort on Calvinism  (Read 4695 times)

biscuit1953

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
  • Reputation: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« on: June 24, 2012, 06:27:59 AM »
In "The Evidence Bible" published in 2011, there is a note on "Which is right, Calvinism or Arminianism?"  Here is most of the long article.

How do God's sovereign grace and man's responsibility to turn to Him fit together?  For example, Ezek. 33:11 says,  "As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.  Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die...?" 

It is clear from Scripture that He grants us repentance (Acts 5:31; 11:18), and He also gives us faith as a gift (Rom. 12:3),  But He then commands all men everywhere to repent and to have faith (believe).  See Mark 1:15; Acts 17:30.  We read that God "is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9, emphasis added). 

Charles Spurgeon proclaimed divine sovereignty yet he also preached man's responsibility, although he admitted that he didn't understand how they fit together.  Consider his exhortations to the sinner:  "Believe in Jesus, and though you are now in slippery places your feet shall soon be set upon a rock of safety";  "Sinner fly to Christ";  "O sinner, humble yourself under the mighty hand of God..."  And it is the sinner's responsibility to trust in the Savior:  "Trust Christ with your soul and He will save it.  I know you will not do this unless the Holy Spirit constrains you, but this does not remove your responsibility."

The Armenian and Calvinist views are diametrically opposed to each other, yet believers on both sides point to a thousand verses to back their theology.  If you choose one view or the other, don't let your choice cut you off from others who may believe differently.  The two opposing truths can walk together.  All that is missing is some information for them to harmonize.  The day will come when we will understand everything (1 Cor 13:12), and it is then we will be so glad that we didn't cause division by arguing about which one is right.

Sadly, church history has shown us that Christ-centered men of God have clashed over these issues (e.g., Wesley and Whitefield).  More recently, I have seen brethren make a theological stand and much to their dismay, they were marked by their home church as "troublemakers."  Fine missionaries have been pulled from the field, pastors fired from the ministry, and churches have split, simply because of different views of God's sovereignty. 

So, if you do get it worked out, be careful that you strive to keep unity among the brethren, and then focus on your God-given commission.  Firefighters exist to fight fires, not to fight each other.  They must have unity of purpose.  Every moment that you and I spend arguing about theological interpretation is time we have lost forever, that could have been spent in prayer for the unsaved or in seeking to save that which is lost.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 06:49:53 PM by biscuit1953 »

Izdaari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Reputation: +149/-3
  • Charismissional Episcopalutheran
    • View Profile
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 04:16:08 PM »
Comfort misspelled "Arminian" as "Armenian", which does change the meaning. "Armenian" is an ethnicity, not a theological position.  :P

But anyway... he's right that it's important that we don't let such differences divide us. Calvinist, Arminian or other (I'm an other -- mostly Lutheran on such matters), we're Christians together, which is more important than academic theological wrangles.
Big-time negotiators, false healers and woman haters
Masters of the bluff and masters of the proposition
But the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency
All non-believers and men stealers talkin' in the name of religion
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.

FSSL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
  • Reputation: +76/-4
    • View Profile
    • Sunday School Lessons
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 09:12:18 PM »
I am what is commonly known as a 5point Calvinist. We had a man come to our church who was a Calvinist. He got upset and left because we would not consider a 4 pointer an unbeliever. This was the first Calvinistic kook I had met in 20 years.

Fundies are typically SemiPelagianists (Arminian but Eternal Security believers.)

I usually find that the fundies have a wrong understanding of Calvinism.

A fundy church in Rockford, Illinois threw out all of Spurgeons books in their library. They were fundies that actually read :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 09:15:41 PM by FSSL »

Agent P

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Reputation: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 11:43:31 PM »
Comfort misspelled "Arminian" as "Armenian", which does change the meaning. "Armenian" is an ethnicity, not a theological position.  :P

But anyway... he's right that it's important that we don't let such differences divide us. Calvinist, Arminian or other (I'm an other -- mostly Lutheran on such matters), we're Christians together, which is more important than academic theological wrangles.

Armenian is also an Eastern Catholic offshoot in its own right.  It really gets confusing in this area where we have a few Armenian churches as well as Arminian churches! :-\
I may look like a platypus, but I'm really a FREEBIRD!!!

Bob H

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Reputation: +63/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 11:45:21 AM »

I usually find that the fundies have a wrong understanding of Calvinism.


 :) I would say that  a calvinist would think the same of a new-evangelical {a non-fundy} who is not a calvinist. So I don't know why a "fundy" is always called out. I know of far more calvinist in fundamentalism  than in new evangelicalism {which I left}. In fact, the first time I ever met or heard a calvinist speak was in fundamentalism. But that's just me.






A fundy church in Rockford, Illinois threw out all of Spurgeons books in their library. They were fundies that actually read :)


Least they had them. Most new evangelical churches who have libraries never had them. But that's just my experience
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 04:17:18 PM by Bob H »
Bob
______

A bulldog can whip a skunk anytime but it just ain't worth it

Castor Muscular

  • Guest
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 12:21:39 PM »
Comfort misspelled "Arminian" as "Armenian", which does change the meaning. "Armenian" is an ethnicity, not a theological position.  :P


Well, that's how he reconciles the two.  It's true that you can be an Armenian Calvinist.  ;)

FSSL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
  • Reputation: +76/-4
    • View Profile
    • Sunday School Lessons
Re: Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 03:46:05 PM »

I usually find that the fundies have a wrong understanding of Calvinism.


 :) I would say that  a calvinist would think the same of a new-evangleical {a non-fundy} who is not a calvinist. So I don't know why a "fundy" is always called out. I know of far more calvinist in fundamentalism  than in new evangelicalism {which I left}. In fact, the first time I ever met or heard a calvinist speak was in fundamentalism.

No debate here. This is a fundy forum, so that is why they are always being called out here.

Bob H

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Reputation: +63/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 04:15:45 PM »

I usually find that the fundies have a wrong understanding of Calvinism.


 :) I would say that  a calvinist would think the same of a new-evangelical {a non-fundy} who is not a calvinist. So I don't know why a "fundy" is always called out. I know of far more calvinist in fundamentalism  than in new evangelicalism {which I left}. In fact, the first time I ever met or heard a calvinist speak was in fundamentalism.

No debate here. This is a fundy forum, so that is why they are always being called out here.

I was being a bit sarcastic with that remark  :).... but this is not a fundy forum.





Bob
______

A bulldog can whip a skunk anytime but it just ain't worth it

wheatpenny

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Orthodox Quaker
    • View Profile
Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 04:31:15 PM »
The first Calvinist I ever met was a fire-breathing KJV-Only fundie who thought everything (including Arminianism) was part of a Vatican conspiracy.
Jeff (wheatpenny) - formerly known as orthodox_quaker
former KJVO

Hurrah for Quakerism! (Caroline Fox)

John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command you.

(The Scriptural basis for Quakers calling themselves "Friends")

FSSL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
  • Reputation: +76/-4
    • View Profile
    • Sunday School Lessons
Re: Re: Ray Comfort on Calvinism
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 05:12:51 PM »
Quote from: Bob H link=topic=849.msg10992#msg10992 date=1340658945I
was being a bit sarcastic with that remark  :).... but this is not a fundy forum.

<justhavin'fun>Oh. The name threw me off and Alayman gives it that feel</justhavin'fun...except for the Alayman part> :D
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 05:14:39 PM by FSSL »