Is IFB a cult?

[tmjbog]

That is a really odd list. See response:
1. KJO does not a cult make. It may become heretical in some churches (only saved by KJV), but a little heresy isn't a cult, it is incorrect teaching.
2. Nowhere near Amish standards. They only want women in dresses and not low cut tops. Plenty of very modern attire. Much of the modern dresses are, however, very flattering to form. Wearing a dress doesn't promote rape - that is just weird.
3. I have been in most of the dominant IFB churches over the past 40 years. I have never heard anyone wish to ban holidays.
4. Bill Gothard? Not really who I think of with IFB, but, whatever.
5. yeah, agreed.
6. Scofield as authoritarian text? I could see if you put the teachings of Hyles, Rice, etc. Most IFB have no commentaries other than sermon tapes from JH and don't read any other writers.

Going KJO significantly pushes an IFB toward cultism. Since KJO tend to break fellowship with those who don't agree it moves them toward being part of the "exclusive" true believers. Also it opens the door to follow man centered traditionalism much like the Catholics.

The first IFB I attended years before I settled in an IFB held no affinity for Christmas. In this particular church the sr. pastor was always happy and positive and an older assistant pastor was the guy to bring out the wrath. I remember him coming out and talking about there being nothing significant about Christmas and for him and his family it was just another day. Talked about how December was even the wrong time of the year for Christ's birth and that if we were meant to celebrate it then God would have provided the date in His Word. I think it's a minority of IFBs that reject the celebration of holidays but they still exist.

 

[Starlifter]

You guys kill me.
I am probably among the most diverse IFB's b/c I rarely hear anyone quoting Jack Hyles. I do occasionally, as I also quote Adrian Rogers, DJ Kennedy, Vance Havner, and others.

 

[Twisted]

You guys kill me.
as I also quote Adrian Rogers, DJ Kennedy, Vance Havner, and others.

All depending on who was featured in the last Sword of the Lord he got his sermon from.

 

[illinoisguy]

Just as a clarification, my 6-point list was intended only as a sample of the kind of teachings that might be considered by some as leaning in the cultish direction. It was not my intention to assert that all or most IFBs hold to these positions, but some clearly still do. Over the years, it has been my dubious privilege to be closely associated with IFB churches and preachers that heavily emphasized such things as extreme KJV-Onlyism, Ruckmanism, bans on woman's slacks, bans on Easter, Christmas and Christmas trees (I am still being deluged by such anti-holiday propaganda in print from IFB periodicals), dictatorial preacher rule, Gothardism, Scofieldism, adoration of Jack Hyles, etc. I am happy for all of you out there who have been able to affiliate with more moderate IFB churches that do not emphasize and obsess over these things. Unfortunately, such has not been my experience.

 

[tmjbog]

Just as a clarification, my 6-point list was intended only as a sample of the kind of teachings that might be considered by some as leaning in the cultish direction. It was not my intention to assert that all or most IFBs hold to these positions, but some clearly still do. Over the years, it has been my dubious privilege to be closely associated with IFB churches and preachers that heavily emphasized such things as extreme KJV-Onlyism, Ruckmanism, bans on woman's slacks, bans on Easter, Christmas and Christmas trees (I am still being deluged by such anti-holiday propaganda in print from IFB periodicals), dictatorial preacher rule, Gothardism, Scofieldism, adoration of Jack Hyles, etc. I am happy for all of you out there who have been able to affiliate with more moderate IFB churches that do not emphasize and obsess over these things. Unfortunately, such has not been my experience.

In a lot of cases I'm not sure they are more moderate, different IFB camps just seem to emphasize different areas. The pastor at the Freewill Baptist church I was a part of in NC never mentioned the name Jack Hyles, wasn't a fan of Scofield, and was fine with celebrating holidays. He was definitely KJVO, thought women ought not to where britches, and was into the man worship thing. He used to make certain statements regarding our church being the only witness for Christ in that city (it wasn't).

 

[Starlifter]

Just as a clarification, my 6-point list was intended only as a sample of the kind of teachings that might be considered by some as leaning in the cultish direction. It was not my intention to assert that all or most IFBs hold to these positions, but some clearly still do. Over the years, it has been my dubious privilege to be closely associated with IFB churches and preachers that heavily emphasized such things as extreme KJV-Onlyism, Ruckmanism, bans on woman's slacks, bans on Easter, Christmas and Christmas trees (I am still being deluged by such anti-holiday propaganda in print from IFB periodicals), dictatorial preacher rule, Gothardism, Scofieldism, adoration of Jack Hyles, etc. I am happy for all of you out there who have been able to affiliate with more moderate IFB churches that do not emphasize and obsess over these things. Unfortunately, such has not been my experience.

Well brother, they must be seeking you out, or you're looking for love and friends in all the wrong places (as some hymn writer once said)

 

[illinoisguy]

Yeah, I must have been running in the wrong circles all these years. Maybe it's just me, but the things on that list explain why I left IFBs in the rear view mirror and never looked back. Maybe the IFBs have now cleaned up their act while I was gone - if so, good for them.

 

[Starlifter]

Yeah, I must have been running in the wrong circles all these years. Maybe it's just me, but the things on that list explain why I left IFBs in the rear view mirror and never looked back. Maybe the IFBs have now cleaned up their act while I was gone - if so, good for them.

They are still out there, I know that.
But there are plenty of good churches that are IFB as well.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

If you follow Jesse (Stone) Jackson on Facbeook you'll see he's a worldly Christian and proud Biden supporter. He went from IFB preacher boy to World Famous bodybuilder and a worshiper of false teachers like Carl Lentz/Steven Furtick etc.

Anyway he usually posts videos every week bashing his former college/church in Oklahoma and IFB's all together. He never made peace with Jim Vineyard and Tom Vineyard won't even mention Jesse's name though he used to like Jesse when he was a preacher boy and sang with the melodies and ambassadresses.

Also Jesse makes videos called "Don't Judge Others" especially when defending his grandfather Bob Ross who came under fire.

 

[FSSL]

If the preaching consistently ignores or misuses the word of God, you have found a cult.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

If you follow Jesse (Stone) Jackson on Facbeook you'll see he's a worldly Christian and proud Biden supporter. He went from IFB preacher boy to World Famous bodybuilder and a worshiper of false teachers like Carl Lentz/Steven Furtick etc.

Anyway he usually posts videos every week bashing his former college/church in Oklahoma and IFB's all together. He never made peace with Jim Vineyard and Tom Vineyard won't even mention Jesse's name though he used to like Jesse when he was a preacher boy and sang with the melodies and ambassadresses.

Also Jesse makes videos called "Don't Judge Others" especially when defending his grandfather Bob Ross who came under fire.

Why would I follow such a fellow?

Move on with your life rather than obsessing over what somebody who you don't like does during the day.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

If the preaching consistently ignores or misuses the word of God, you have found a cult.

On some level, you could say that every denomination does this. I think of a cult as something much more dubious.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

Why would I follow such a fellow?

Move on with your life rather than obsessing over what somebody who you don't like does during the day.

Well Jesse went liberal, worships Joe Biden and BLM, and is a world class bodybuilder. If he did that as a student at HAC, you know Jack Hyles would blister him in every sermon. Hyles buddy/cronie Jim Vineyard was the same way and Mr. Jackson (Stone) left the Vineyard flock to become liberal.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Well Jesse went liberal, worships Joe Biden and BLM, and is a world class bodybuilder. If he did that as a student at HAC, you know Jack Hyles would blister him in every sermon. Hyles buddy/cronie Jim Vineyard was the same way and Mr. Jackson (Stone) left the Vineyard flock to become liberal.

So, you watch everything he does with the same intent? You infatuate yourself with a person just to broadcast everything you think they do wrong? If you are unhappy with JH and JV doing such, why are you doing it?

 

[Starlifter]

So, you watch everything he does with the same intent? You infatuate yourself with a person just to broadcast everything you think they do wrong? If you are unhappy with JH and JV doing such, why are you doing it?

He's a troll, that's all there is to it...

 

[TimbauxRioux]

He's a troll, that's all there is to it...

hello everyone long time no see.

IS IFB a CULT? NO... Cultic instances, definitely. Cult, in my opinion, goes beyond doctrine, When you make a distinction between "cult" and "cultic" there is no intersect at doctrine because "cultic" has to do withy just about everything except for doctrine. So, yeah, many, especially the Hyles type, are cultic, but many hyles type churches are straight. Someone said something about 'when you leave". i am physically imposing, and a rough kid from New Orleans so none of the people from my former church would say anything to my face. But that church had so many great people in it. Their blind allegiance drove me crazy, but in the end, everyone's eyes were opened. Romans 8:28. All the mess those poor folks went through ended up doing some good.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

Jesse Stone (Jackson) went from preacher boy who obeyed Jim Vineyard to seeker sensitive liberal who worships Joe Biden/BLM etc. He went from street preacher at OBC to street hustler for TBN prosperity preacher Keith Craft.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

Interestingly, I have a a friend who is a psychologist and specializes in helping people exit cults. The hallmark behavior in deciding if an organization is a cult? How are you treated when you leave or try to leave??

That is significant because many of us have story after story of being treated poorly, ostracized, criticized, etc all because of leaving a certain church.

I take exception to this last line. People leave churches indeed...and many times for good reason. But what other place on the planet do you leave something and expect those people left to reach out to you? Gyms? Jobs? If you leave my church, you cannot dictate how/if/when I reach out to you. Usually, when someone leaves it has been obvious for a while that something was up and you're kinda glad the weight is off.

I've seen people leave churches then make more of an effort to reach out to people than they ever did while in church. I've also seen them not reach out to "inner circle" people but people they perceive as "outer circle". Why?

If I've given my heart and soul to you for years and you decide to leave, I'm going to take it personally. I will not attack you. I will not encourage others not to keep in contact. But I'm not going to coffee with you. And that's ok.

 

[tmjbog]

I take exception to this last line. People leave churches indeed...and many times for good reason. But what other place on the planet do you leave something and expect those people left to reach out to you? Gyms? Jobs? If you leave my church, you cannot dictate how/if/when I reach out to you. Usually, when someone leaves it has been obvious for a while that something was up and you're kinda glad the weight is off.

I've seen people leave churches then make more of an effort to reach out to people than they ever did while in church. I've also seen them not reach out to "inner circle" people but people they perceive as "outer circle". Why?

If I've given my heart and soul to you for years and you decide to leave, I'm going to take it personally. I will not attack you. I will not encourage others not to keep in contact. But I'm not going to coffee with you. And that's ok.

I guess it comes down to the "why". If the reason is they hold some grudge against you or think you have done something wrong, than I guess your attitude is understandable, although still less than Christ like. If they had a change in convictions or maybe decide to try to help out a startup church, or for any other reason that has nothing to do with the pastor, than it seems perplexing that you would hold a grudge just because your ego took a little hit.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

I guess it comes down to the "why". If the reason is they hold some grudge against you or think you have done something wrong, than I guess your attitude is understandable, although still less than Christ like. If they had a change in convictions or maybe decide to try to help out a startup church, or for any other reason that has nothing to do with the pastor, than it seems perplexing that you would hold a grudge just because your ego took a little hit.

How about Demas? Was Paul to go have coffee with him?? And if he doesn't is Paul not Christ like? Laughable. John needs to go back and reach out to those from 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us".

I stand by what I said: you can't leave my church then dictate how/if/when I reach out to you.

When I was in middle school, I quit cross country. Coach didn't reach out to me. In HS I quit track. Coach nor teammates never reached out. Quit Boy Scouts as a kid. Nothing. Quit a few jobs. No one reached out. In all of these scenarios, neither the leaders nor the others reached out. It's funny how we compartmentalize church: if someone leaves you have an obligation to keep in contact or you're not "Christ like".