John R Rice "Prayer is asking"; "If it is not asking, it is not prayer in the Bible sense."

[Jrock]

John R Rice was a godly man but he wasn't always correct on some topics. Take the topic of prayer, his best selling book was "Prayer Asking And Receiving" published in 1942. According to Rice, prayer was simply asking God for your needs. Rice rejected the teaching that prayer also has some other components. For instance, prayer is also adoration, praise, intercession, confession and thanksgiving. The error that John R Rice makes in his book is that he narrows down prayer to just asking God. Prayer includes supplication or "asking" to God but it is also much broader than just simply "asking." I believe many IFB's today would not agree with how Rice defined prayer in this book. But to be fair, the book also has some good gems about prayer.

 

[abcaines]

John R Rice was a godly man but he wasn't always correct on some topics. Take the topic of prayer, his best selling book was "Prayer Asking And Receiving" published in 1942. According to Rice, prayer was simply asking God for your needs. Rice rejected the teaching that prayer also has some other components. For instance, prayer is also adoration, praise, intercession, confession and thanksgiving. The error that John R Rice makes in his book is that he narrows down prayer to just asking God. Prayer includes supplication or "asking" to God but it is also much broader than just simply "asking." I believe many IFB's today would not agree with how Rice defined prayer in this book. But to be fair, the book also has some good gems about prayer.View attachment 5673

I agree. JRR reduced the concept of prayer to little more than a business transaction in his book. He's been with Jesus for over 40 years. I'm sure he's been straightened out on the issue. I fully respect his teaching on salvation; IMO that makes up for his misunderstanding of prayer.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

John R Rice was a godly man but he wasn't always correct on some topics. Take the topic of prayer, his best selling book was "Prayer Asking And Receiving" published in 1942. According to Rice, prayer was simply asking God for your needs. Rice rejected the teaching that prayer also has some other components. For instance, prayer is also adoration, praise, intercession, confession and thanksgiving. The error that John R Rice makes in his book is that he narrows down prayer to just asking God. Prayer includes supplication or "asking" to God but it is also much broader than just simply "asking." I believe many IFB's today would not agree with how Rice defined prayer in this book. But to be fair, the book also has some good gems about prayer.

Jesus said Pray like this.
"Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name....."


That first statement is not asking. I read John R. Rice's book in about 1989, and it affected me immensely. But he never said it was only asking. I also read and appreciate his book, "Our God-Breathed Book: The Bible." Another thread mentioned it. He was not KJVO. He was well educated, not even TR only, much less KJVO. But he was separatistic to a fault. But his type of Chrsitianity was very legalistic and self righteous, and God, in his mercy, allowed many of us from Maranatha's earlier days, to escape it.

 

[Jrock]

Jesus said Pray like this.
"Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name....."


That first statement is not asking. I read John R. Rice's book in about 1989, and it affected me immensely. But he never said it was only asking. I also read and appreciate his book, "Our God-Breathed Book: The Bible." Another thread mentioned it. He was not KJVO. He was well educated, not even TR only, much less KJVO. But he was separatistic to a fault. But his type of Chrsitianity was very legalistic and self righteous, and God, in his mercy, allowed many of us from Maranatha's earlier days, to escape it.

You said Rice was "separatistic to a fault." Yet he rejected second degree separation. Can you give examples how Rice was separatistic and how was his Christianity legalistic and self righteous?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

You said Rice was "separatistic to a fault." Yet he rejected second degree separation. Can you give examples how Rice was separatistic and how was his Christianity legalistic and self righteous?

He separated from Billy Graham, who was a believer, because of secondary issues.

John Rice, the Sword of the Lord, and What We Should Learn from The Fundamentalists

I can’t make sense of my Christian heritage apart from the independent Baptist movement of the last century. My father was born in Wheaton, IL, the city where my grandfather was employed as the printer for the Sword of the Lord, the premier fundamentalist newsweekly during the second half of the...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

"The most fascinating part of the book chronicles the turbulent relationship between Rice and Billy Graham. For many years, Rice propped up Graham’s ministry, defending his methods against the more strident fundamentalists who had already disfellowshipped him. When Rice finally did turn against Graham, it was because separatism as the principle of fundamentalism had become more important than the doctrines of fundamentalism. Doctrinal purity wasn’t good enough. You could no longer associate with someone who even associated with the theologically impure. The split between Graham and Rice turned into a microcosm of the split between fundamentalists and evangelicals in the latter half of the last century."

Read his book on child rearing, or his book on bobbed hair, etc

 

[WESLEY]

Does anyone know the name of the book Bob Jones, Jr wrote against John R Rice?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Does anyone know the name of the book Bob Jones, Jr wrote against John R Rice?

 

[WESLEY]

do yo u have a copy of this? only a few to buy online, and super $$$

free pdf somewhere?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Reply

do yo u have a copy of this? only a few to buy online, and super $$$

free pdf somewhere?

$55.00 at shelley and Sons books No one else has a copy

 

[AverageJoe]

Jesus said Pray like this.
"Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name....."


That first statement is not asking. I read John R. Rice's book in about 1989, and it affected me immensely. But he never said it was only asking. I also read and appreciate his book, "Our God-Breathed Book: The Bible." Another thread mentioned it. He was not KJVO. He was well educated, not even TR only, much less KJVO. But he was separatistic to a fault. But his type of Chrsitianity was very legalistic and self righteous, and God, in his mercy, allowed many of us from Maranatha's earlier days, to escape it.

Yes, Lord! It took many years after Maranatha for me to break free from the legalism. In 2000 I walked away from the IFB, KJVOism, and many things the hyper-fundamentalists stood for. I had to. I saw so many turning from the Bible and walking away because they couldn't support what they taught from the Bible. They'd twist God's Word to fit their positions instead of letting God's Word direct their belief systems. When I walked away I lost many friends and several family members. But, I've really never looked back. JRR was wrong on several things, but, I still enjoyed many of his teachings.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

do yo u have a copy of this? only a few to buy online, and super $$$

free pdf somewhere?

If you go to the baptistboard, contact John of Japan. he is a grandson of John Rice and might be able to get a copy. He's a cool guy.

 

[WESLEY]

If you go to the baptistboard, contact John of Japan. he is a grandson of John Rice and might be able to get a copy. He's a cool guy.

thank you

 

[Jrock]

So it appears to me that John R Rice was inconsistent in practicing separation. He rejected "secondary separation", but that's exactly what he practice when he separated from Billy Graham.

 

[biscuit1953]

In Jonah's prayer there is no asking for anything but simply praising God for his deliverance. Christians go to prayer for many different reasons and it isn't always asking for something.

Jonah's Prayer

Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Jon 2:3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

Jon 2:4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

Jon 2:5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jon 2:7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

Jon 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Jon 2:9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

Jon 2:10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

 

[Ekklesian]

After this manner therefore pray ye: ​

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. ​

Thy kingdom come. ​

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. ​

Give us this day our daily bread. ​

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. ​

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: ​

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. ​

Amen. ​

- Matthew 6:9-13 KJV​

​

Is there a request in there somewhere?

 

[abcaines]

Is there a request in there somewhere

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:

 

[Ekklesian]

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:

They look like imperatives to me.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. - Hebrews 4:16

 

[Ransom]

They look like imperatives to me.

The imperative mood is for commands. Do you think you can command God to give you anything?

 

[Ransom]

Is there a request in there somewhere?

Well, let's see. According to the OP in addition to asking (supplication):

prayer is also adoration, praise, intercession, confession and thanksgiving.

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

That's adoration or praise.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

That's a request; obviously not something we can bring about on our own.

Give us this day our daily bread.

That's a request.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

That's a request--as the Pharisees rightly asked, who but God can forgive sins (cf. Luke 11:4)?

Arguably also an implied confession that we have, indeed, sinned.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:

Also a request, and perhaps indirectly an intersession, since the prayer is not "lead me not," but "lead us not."

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

And that, again, is praise or adoration.

 

[Ekklesian]

I'm not saying there's no asking in prayer. Of course there is. "Ye have not, because ye ask not."

In the specific prayer I cited, there is nothing expressed more than what God has commanded or promised.

There is no request for healing, or for a mate, or for the means to take the family to Branson, or for a cup to pass.

And the items are phrased as expectations, more than they are as requests...at least to me, but I won't quibble about it or insist on it.

There is a boldness born of expectation about them. I was impressed with that just recently. I'm more like timid Joash when it comes to prayer. I'll smite the ground with the arrows three times when I should smite five or six times. I mean that to be a degree of boldness, not number repetitions, LOL.

Anyway, that's all I was meaning.