One God or three gods in one God

abdh said:
Why did the Lord become incarnate in the Virgin's womb, and why did Jesus come? Isn't Jesus the Lord, or is Jesus different from God the Father?
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This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst. 1 Timothy 1:15
 
abdh said:
I was studying with a Muslim sheikh, and this man passed away one day. We were reading the Quran when he said that Jesus is God. But the people didn't understand this; everyone was astonished. Someone asked him, "How do you know this?" He replied, "The Quran doesn't mention anyone who could raise the dead, create birds from clay, heal the blind and the lepers, bring down a table of food from heaven, or speak while still a newborn—that is, Jesus. No prophet's father did such things." Because of this statement, he was accused of apostasy and killed. However, his words became a key for some to search until we came to believe that he is God. When I read the Sermon on the Mount, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever read. I believed that he is the Lord and that this was the word of God.
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This is a good testimony, and you and the sheikh came to the right conclusions. I believe the sheikh is now in heaven with Jesus and the Father.


abdh said:
After that, we had a teacher who began teaching us about the Trinity, about salvation through the blood, and that salvation had already been accomplished. I believed this, but after reading the Old and New Testaments, I didn't find anything about God being in three persons or the Father being equal to the Son. I found that Jesus said, "Do not call me good." I found that he said he didn't know when the Day of Judgment would be. I found that he said, "My Lord, my Lord, why have you forsaken me?"
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It sounds to me like you believe that Jesus was truthful. It is written that Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!" - John 8:58. The Jews immediately picked up rocks to stone Him with, because they recognized that Jesus took upon Himself a name of God from the Old Testament .

The Jews were going to kill him for blasphemy, because Jesus said He was God, just like the Muslims killed the sheikh you mentioned, for saying that Jesus was God.

In that place and others, the Bible speaks of the Son as equal with God.

Now speaking of things hard to imagine, John also wrote that God became flesh and lived among us. Naturally, as a man, Jesus was not immortal. Can God die?

He was not invisible. Has any man seen God?

If the seeming absence of those divine attributes do not present a difficulty to you in believing in Jesus, why would you be tripped up over the instances where Jesus, as a man, is not all knowing or all powerful? (My God, My God. Why have you forsaken me?)

Jesus, as a man, relied on the power of the Spirit to perform His ministry. The prime evidence that He was the Messiah—His power over demons—was by the Spirit.

Many of His divine attributes were hidden by His flesh. Not only from us, but from Himself, too. Were we to walk the earth in the First Century, and look at Jesus. We would not see a god. We would see a man, and not a very attractive man at that. It was His preaching and His miracles and His fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets that revealed His divinity.

But do you believe this about Jesus—that God raised Him from the dead?
 
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Three distinct persons - one essence

The Father is God - Singular
The Son is God - Singular
The Holy Spirit is God - Singular

The Father is not the Son
The Son is not the Father
The Father is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
The Son is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Son

... I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me - Isa 46:9

Jesus is truly God, Eternally existent with the Father and the creator of all things (Jn 1:3; Col 1:16-17). Jesus therefore has all of the attributes of God (Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Eternity, Immensity, Aseity, Etc.)

Jesus is truly Human, born of a woman, having 46 Chromosomes, human blood, Etc. (Mt 24:36; Mk 10:18; Jn 1:14; Rom 8:3). As a man, Jesus does not possess the attributes of omniscience and omnipresence (Lk 2:52; Phi 2:5-11).

Jesus is both human and divine simultaneously but one is distinct from he other, not mixed together yet inseparable. The Athanasius Creed explains this in detail.

And no, I do not fully understand or comprehend but I believe it nonetheless.
 
abdh said:
Monotheism in Islam is the same as monotheism in the Old Testament.
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Except Tawhid was never mentioned in the ASrabic Koranic text though, and Muhammed had Allah with a wife and 3 daughters
 
abdh said:
Why did the Lord become incarnate in the Virgin's womb, and why did Jesus come? Isn't Jesus the Lord, or is Jesus different from God the Father?
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Jesus eternally preexisted as the eternal word of the Father, so we see the uncreated Word came to Earth in Human Flesh, while Muslims see it came in a book, the Koran
 
I have a simple question for @abdh,

Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, as the Christian Scriptures say?
 
Ekklesian said:
I have a simple question for @abdh,

Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, as the Christian Scriptures say?
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Good question, as the Koran stated that he never died, but was raised to heaven, and Allah put Judas upon that Cross but made everyone think was seeing Jesus
 
JesusFan said:
Good question, as the Koran stated that he never died, but was raised to heaven, and Allah put Judas upon that Cross but made everyone think was seeing Jesus
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I don't care what the Koran says. I want to know what he believes, and I want to help him over the hurdles that discouraged him and sent him back to Islam, if I can.

All you 'spiritual giants' beating him over the head with the Trinity cudgel, which you can barely handle yourselves, isn't helping any.
 
abdh said:
Which is better: for God to be one and understandable, or for Him to be divided into three persons and difficult to understand?
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I don't insist that the Triune God must make everything about Himself comprehensible. I'm only required to accept what He has chosen to reveal about Himself in His Word as truth.
 
Ekklesian said:
I don't care what the Koran says. I want to know what he believes, and I want to help him over the hurdles that discouraged him and sent him back to Islam, if I can.

All you 'spiritual giants' beating him over the head with the Trinity cudgel, which you can barely handle yourselves, isn't helping any.
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Jesus is God is not aCudgel, but Christianity 101
 
By the Book said:
I don't insist that the Triune God must make everything about Himself comprehensible. I'm only required to accept what He has chosen to reveal about Himself in His Word as truth.
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IF we could fully understand God Himself, then we would be equal to God , so we must trust in the scriptures to be His divine revelation to us
 
JesusFan said:
IF we could fully understand God Himself, then we would be equal to God , so we must trust in the scriptures to be His divine revelation to us
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We haven't even begun to scratch the surface regarding our understanding of everything God has revealed to us of himself through the written scriptures. The sum total of everything God has revealed to us in his scriptures is a mere drop in the bucket concerning his wonder and glory that shall be revealed to us in the age to come!
 
القران يقول هو الذي في السماء اله وفي الأرض اله هل يمكن أن توضح لي هذه الايه
 
zechariah said:
القران يقول هو الذي في السماء اله وفي الأرض اله هل يمكن أن توضح لي هذه الايه
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Please stick to English on the forum, please. Or at least include a translation. You shouldn't expect us to rush off to Google Translate if you want to be understood.
 
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