Pastor's salaries/lifestyle.

ALAYMAN said:
But there are a whole lot more people that seem to want to keep the preacher as poor as they are, just for spite.
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Who are these people you keep referencing who want to keep “preachers poor”? Honestly, from every response I’ve read on here, it seems everyone has responded that pastors should be paid at the local median income rate, or possibly even a little above depending on income and experience/education.

I’ll admit, I’ve always had a bit of a romantic view of the bi-vocational preacher. I know two different men who have college degrees in theology/pastoral studies. One is the pastor of a small church in Idaho. Last I heard, he was working at the sporting goods counter of a Walmart and still leading his small congregation. The other guy is a mailman in rural Appalachia (I think near the southern Ohio/West Virginia area. He also pastors a small church. Both guys are very happy, make enough to pay bills, raise a family and seem very satisfied in life. I don’t think that means everyone has to follow suit, but it works for some people. If God calls a man to ministry, I don’t think he will really sweat the details.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
....
Perhaps he is compensated well but chooses to live in an austere manner as an example to his congregation?
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Yes, willingly foregoing potential wealth, as Piper and Warren did, is certainly an option and laudable. But, if the absolute expectation is that they forfeit those revenue streams simply because external voices say so I think we've crossed over into unwarranted unbiblical mandates.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Who are these people you keep referencing who want to keep “preachers poor”? Honestly, from every response I’ve read on here, it seems everyone has responded that pastors should be paid at the local median income rate, or possibly even a little above depending on income and experience/education.
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My apologies if I gave the impression that I was speaking of people on this forum. That's not the case at all. Most answers have been very reasonable with workable solutions.

One of the first experiences I recall as a young actively growing Christian church member was an elderly couple (specifically, the wife) who made it their stated purpose to "starve the preacher out" because he would not bow to their whim and will. I could cite other examples personally, or references as I have made earlier in this thread about "Lord, you keep him humble and we will keep him poor", or like the reference I made in the OP to the conversation with my coworker who thought it was too flashy to drive a BMW.
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’ll admit, I’ve always had a bit of a romantic view of the bi-vocational preacher. I know two different men who have college degrees in theology/pastoral studies. One is the pastor of a small church in Idaho. Last I heard, he was working at the sporting goods counter of a Walmart and still leading his small congregation. The other guy is a mailman in rural Appalachia (I think near the southern Ohio/West Virginia area. He also pastors a small church. Both guys are very happy, make enough to pay bills, raise a family and seem very satisfied in life. I don’t think that means everyone has to follow suit, but it works for some people. If God calls a man to ministry, I don’t think he will really sweat the details.
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Yes, as I've already stated, if the two parties agree, nothing wrong with a bivocational pastor. Spirit of my conversation centers around people who think that it is inappropriate for a pastor to make enough money to drive a nice car and have a home that isn't a two-bedroom ranch parsonage.
 
ALAYMAN said:
My apologies if I gave the impression that I was speaking of people on this forum. That's not the case at all. Most answers have been very reasonable with workable solutions.

One of the first experiences I recall as a young actively growing Christian church member was an elderly couple (specifically, the wife) who made it their stated purpose to "starve the preacher out" because he would not bow to their whim and will. I could cite other examples personally, or references as I have made earlier in this thread about "Lord, you keep him humble and we will keep him poor", or like the reference I made in the OP to the conversation with my coworker who thought it was too flashy to drive a BMW.

Yes, as I've already stated, if the two parties agree, nothing wrong with a bivocational pastor. Spirit of my conversation centers around people who think that it is inappropriate for a pastor to make enough money to drive a nice car and have a home that isn't a two-bedroom ranch parsonage.
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I see. I almost wonder if the thought process is regionally related. There’s a lot of money in the Charleston area where I grew up, and there’s also a lot of money floating around in Florida where I’ve lived my entire adulthood. I just haven’t encountered this type of attitude from people. Now, that being said, I do think people might start whispering if the pastor suddenly showed up in a Porsche and moved into an exclusive neighborhood with a 24/7 guarded entrance. But anyway, the two men I referenced knew that they were taking over small congregations that couldn’t afford to pay a full time salary. When you become pastor at a rural church with about a congregation of 50 people, you know what you’re getting into.
 
What does 1 Timothy 5:17-18 mean?

Elders who lead effectively are worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages.”
 
"Honor" means payment. This should be clear enough by Paul's Scripture citations (Deut. 25:4 and Matt. 10:10 or Luke 10:7).
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
....Now, that being said, I do think people might start whispering if the pastor suddenly showed up in a Porsche and moved into an exclusive neighborhood with a 24/7 guarded entrance.
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Yes, whispers very likely. But the question remains, if he performed his pastoral responsibilities competently and remained approachable, *should* there be whispers?

DrHuk&Duck said:
But anyway, the two men I referenced knew that they were taking over small congregations that couldn’t afford to pay a full time salary. When you become pastor at a rural church with about a congregation of 50 people, you know what you’re getting into.
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For sure. The men I've known who answered just that kind of call were all more than able to earn 6 figure salaries in secular work, but labored instead in a field for eternal fruit.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Yes, whispers very likely. But the question remains, if he performed his pastoral responsibilities competently and remained approachable, *should* there be whispers?
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Probably shouldn’t be, but I think it’s just human nature. About a year ago I caught up with a childhood friend of mine who is an IFB pastor in a small town in North Carolina. I don’t think his church averages more than 100 people, and he has no second job, but he’s stinking wealthy because his wife’s family is very wealthy. In fact, if I told you his wife’s family name, all of you on this forum would know it. Anyway, I’m not going to lie about the fact that I felt a little jealousy and resentment that he was so financially prosperous and yet he only had a bachelor’s degree and only pastored a fairly small church. I knew it was wrong to feel that way, but I just couldn’t seem to help it.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Probably shouldn’t be, but I think it’s just human nature. About a year ago I caught up with a childhood friend of mine who is an IFB pastor in a small town in North Carolina. I don’t think his church averages more than 100 people, and he has no second job, but he’s stinking wealthy because his wife’s family is very wealthy. In fact, if I told you his wife’s family name, all of you on this forum would know it. Anyway, I’m not going to lie about the fact that I felt a little jealousy and resentment that he was so financially prosperous and yet he only had a bachelor’s degree and only pastored a fairly small church. I knew it was wrong to feel that way, but I just couldn’t seem to help it.
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Oh go ahead, name drop. 😁
 
ALAYMAN said:
Oh go ahead, name drop. 😁
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Ha—what I should have said is that all of you would know the company his FIL owns, not necessarily his name. I actually have a second childhood friend who ended up in the exact same situation, but he wasn’t in the ministry and that marriage didn’t make it, but he still ended up with a lot of money regardless.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Matt Slick is the founder of Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry or CARM for short. He is someone who will typically come up on a Google Search whenever you are doing research or looking up theological information or whatever. Why should we care? I guess we should care when someone has sufficient exposure in the "Cyber" world that you are actually wielding some influence. I believe he is coming mainly from a Reformed perspective and I have cited him a few times in some of my papers.

Why would a pastor purposely put himself in such a situation? If a congregation did not want to pay a pastor what he is worth and money is an issue, I am sure he has options for "greener pastures."

Perhaps he is compensated well but chooses to live in an austere manner as an example to his congregation?
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He is a great source of Christian knowledge and wisdom
 
Ransom said:
"Honor" means payment. This should be clear enough by Paul's Scripture citations (Deut. 25:4 and Matt. 10:10 or Luke 10:7).
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The church should no doubt ne obedient to the Lord and pay their pastoral staff, but the over the line payment to me would be what we see among the WOF crowd, as they are getting Hugh incomes and property despite teaching heresies fro the pulpits and on tv and radio ministries
 
JesusFan said:
The church should no doubt ne obedient to the Lord and pay their pastoral staff, but the over the line payment to me would be what we see among the WOF crowd, as they are getting Hugh incomes and property despite teaching heresies fro the pulpits and on tv and radio ministries
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The WOF crowd are heretics and their prosperity theology is a swindle. We already know that; there's no need to keep turning the thread back in their direction when we're just talking about the appropriate income for an ordinary parish minister.
 
It feels very much to me like Catholic wannabeism to want to keep the pastor poor and humble. Like there are enough people in the congregation who know Protestants don't have a vow of poverty for the clergy, but wish they did.
 
Ransom said:
It feels very much to me like Catholic wannabeism to want to keep the pastor poor and humble. Like there are enough people in the congregation who know Protestants don't have a vow of poverty for the clergy, but wish they did.
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The church should support the pastoral staffbased upon their monetary blessings, so its church by church
 
After taking an online course to uncover the Bible's secret code, I found the pastor's salary formula:

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Ransom said:
It feels very much to me like Catholic wannabeism to want to keep the pastor poor and humble. Like there are enough people in the congregation who know Protestants don't have a vow of poverty for the clergy, but wish they did.
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I wouldn’t be at all opposed to sitting under a Protestant pastor who has taken a vow of poverty and celibacy. In fact, I would very much like this.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Who is Matt slick and why should we care about his example and teaching?
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Matt Slick has a radio show and you don’t have to care. You can either take it or leave it.

ALAYMAN said:
I just think it's odd that so many people want to keep pastors poor, while they don't have such austere views of their own Christian stewardship.
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I never intended to make the implication that we should keep pastors poor. They have a right to make a living just like everyone else. At the same time, they don’t have the right to teach false things.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I wouldn’t be at all opposed to sitting under a Protestant pastor who has taken a vow of poverty and celibacy. In fact, I would very much like this.
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Your Catholic wannabeism is showing again. 😁
 
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