Do Christians Worship a Jew?

Ekklesian said:
Our bodies are changed from earthy to heavenly...meaning, they're from Heaven. That's what it means to be glorified.
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Our earthly bodies are resurrected and glorified. We don't get replacements. This is Christianity; we don't do reincarnation here.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Jews come from the stock of Abraham (Acts 13:26).
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Your rabbi just vomited a mess of Zionist, antichrist propaganda, and is not at all what Judaism teaches either.

Edom was from "the stock of Abraham." Were they Jews? No. Why not? They weren't the covenant children.

Ruth was not "of the stock of Abraham" Was she a Jew? Yes. Why? She entered the covenant with her confession to Naomi.

The mixed multitude that went out from Egypt with the children of Israel received the law at Sinai. All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do!" Were they Jews? Yes. Why? They received the law.

The stranger that was circumcised to celebrate the Passover, was he not a Jew? Yes, of course. When the law said that any who entered the covenant could identify with the children of Israel in the Passover ...like any native-born Israelite, Exodus 12:48 NLT, it meant that all who receive the law are equally children of Abraham, notwithstanding one's ethnicity.

How could the Jews get converts otherwise?

Judaism has historically held that Sinai is where the children of Israel became the Jews and formally formed into a nation. Sinai is where the nation was born, and all those who keep the law, regardless of ethnicity, are the Jews.

Yet an exclusive focus on Revelation may miss the broader significance of what happened at Sinai. At this place, the Israelites as a people entered into the covenant of tikkun olam, to repair the world and fill it with life. This commitment set the character of Judaism for the ages. At Sinai, the mission of Jewry that has made it a special, chosen people in the world was defined. The birth of the national covenant is what makes Sinai so central in our tradition.​
Our parashah signals what is to happen at the mountain in the runup to the Sinai epiphany. God says: “You saw what I did to Egypt and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to me. Now if you will hear My voice and observe My covenant, you will become My treasured people among the nations” (Exodus 19:5). What is the mission of this special covenanted people? “You shall be to Me a Kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6). ​
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Is any man called a Jew who is not circumcised?

It's your Zionist that is spouting a novel thing. Not the Catholics.
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JesusFan said:
ANy jew who sees jesus as being their messiah and Lord would indeed be a Christian, just keeping their jewish identies
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biscuit1953 said:
I agree 100%.
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How does one "keep" his ethnicity? One's ethnicity is an existential thing. How is that maintained?

Try again. What does it mean to keep one's Jewish identity? What are the hallmarks of a Jewish identity, if it isn't the Law?
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Ransom said:
Our earthly bodies are resurrected and glorified. We don't get replacements. This is Christianity; we don't do reincarnation here.
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Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. - 1 Corinthians 15:50

That's why we're changed in the twinkling of an eye.
 
Sigh. Do you have to work at being that obtuse, or does it come naturally?

Same body, only changed. No longer earthy. No longer ethnic.
 
Ekklesian said:
Im not calling anyone here an apostate, though Dispies teeter on the edge.

It's the danger inherent in fauning over the Jews and their counterfeit state, founded, as it is, on lies, and on the chief lie, that Christ has not come. That the man, Jesus, was a liar, His blood unclean, and judgement imposed upon Him by the Jews was just.
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Here is a list of Reformed theologians who believed the prophecies concerning the regathering of the Jews to their homeland was literal as opposed to being symbolical or metaphorical.

Outside of dispensationalism or any particular theological position or system, some of the greatest theologians of the past have studied OT and/or NT prophecies (notably Romans 9-11) and concluded God is not through with the Jews and has a plan for them in the future as distinct from the church.

Iain Murray, "From the first quarter of the seventeenth century, belief in a future conversion of the Jews became commonplace among the English Puritans."

William Perkins, "The Lord saith, All the nations shall be blessed in Abraham: Hence I gather that the nation of the Jews shall be called, and converted to the participation of this blessing: when, and how, God knows: but that it shall be done before the end of the world we know." (cited by Iain H. Murray, The Puritan Hope, 42.)

Dutch Reformed theologians of the seventeenth century believed in a future salvation of the Jews or restoration of the Jewish nation:

". . . for virtually all Dutch theologians of the seventeenth century, 'the whole of Israel' indicated the fullness of the people of Israel 'according to the flesh': in other words, the fullness of the Jewish people. This meant that there was a basis for an expectation of a future conversion of the Jews-an expectation which was shared by a large majority of Dutch theologians." -- J. Van Den Berg, "Eschatological Expectations Concerning the Conversion of the Jews in the Netherlands During the Seventeenth Century," Puritan Eschatology: 1600 To 1660, ed. Peter Toon (Cambridge: James Clarke, 1970), 140.

J. C. Ryle
  1. I believe that the Jews shall ultimately be gathered again as a separate nation, restored to their own land, and converted to the faith of Christ,
  2. after going through great tribulation (Jer. 30:10-11; 31:10; Rom. 11:25-26; Dan. 12:1; Zech. 13:8-9).
Martyn Lloyd-Jones, “To me 1967, the year that the Jews occupied all of Jerusalem, was very crucial.Luke 21:43 is one of the most significant prophetic verses: ‘Jerusalem,’ it reads, ‘shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.’ It seems to me that that took place in 1967—something crucially important that had not occurred in 2,000 years. Luke 21:43 is one fixed point. But I am equally impressed by Romans 11 which speaks of a great spiritual return among the Jews before the end time. While this seems to be developing, even something even more spectacular may be indicated.We sometimes tend to foreshorten events, yet I have a feeling that we are in the period of the end. . . . I think we are witnessing the breakdown of politics. I think even the world is seeing that. Civilization is collapsing.”

Jonathan Edwards
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
John Calvin
Charles Hodge
John Murray
R. C. Sproul
John MacArthur
Al Moeller
 
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Ransom said:
I'd call that a nice evasion, except it wasn't particularly artful. It was just an evasion.
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It was a rather sublime way of saying her natural birth is irrelevant, unless you think she is somehow still the mother of our Lord and God.
 
Ekklesian said:
No longer having a Jewish mother, how can He be a Jew?
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In this video Al Moeller who is both a Reformed theologian as well as a “five point Calvinist” explains his position on Tucker Carlson and answers the question about how Gentiles can be in the line of Christ and Christ still be Jewish.

“Ruth was both a Jew and a Moabite because of ethnicity and religion. This is part of the glory. What you have here is what Paul tells us; that the redeemed, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, are the new covenant people that are engrafted into the promises of Israel (Rom 11:11-19). We see in Ruth a picture of the gospel before the gospel.”

 
Ekklesian said:
It was a rather sublime way of saying her natural birth is irrelevant,
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Yes, it's irrelevant that the Jewish Messiah was born a Jew and fulfilled the Jewish Scriptures. :ROFLMAO:

Are you and Duh in a retard-off or something?
 
biscuit1953 said:
Here is a list of Reformed theologians who believed the prophecies concerning the regathering of the Jews to their homeland was literal as opposed to being symbolical or metaphorical.

Outside of dispensationalism or any particular theological position or system, some of the greatest theologians of the past have studied OT and/or NT prophecies (notably Romans 9-11) and concluded God is not through with the Jews and has a plan for them in the future as distinct from the church.

Iain Murray, "From the first quarter of the seventeenth century, belief in a future conversion of the Jews became commonplace among the English Puritans."

William Perkins, "The Lord saith, All the nations shall be blessed in Abraham: Hence I gather that the nation of the Jews shall be called, and converted to the participation of this blessing: when, and how, God knows: but that it shall be done before the end of the world we know." (cited by Iain H. Murray, The Puritan Hope, 42.)

Dutch Reformed theologians of the seventeenth century believed in a future salvation of the Jews or restoration of the Jewish nation:

". . . for virtually all Dutch theologians of the seventeenth century, 'the whole of Israel' indicated the fullness of the people of Israel 'according to the flesh': in other words, the fullness of the Jewish people. This meant that there was a basis for an expectation of a future conversion of the Jews-an expectation which was shared by a large majority of Dutch theologians." -- J. Van Den Berg, "Eschatological Expectations Concerning the Conversion of the Jews in the Netherlands During the Seventeenth Century," Puritan Eschatology: 1600 To 1660, ed. Peter Toon (Cambridge: James Clarke, 1970), 140.

J. C. Ryle
  1. I believe that the Jews shall ultimately be gathered again as a separate nation, restored to their own land, and converted to the faith of Christ,
  2. after going through great tribulation (Jer. 30:10-11; 31:10; Rom. 11:25-26; Dan. 12:1; Zech. 13:8-9).
Martyn Lloyd-Jones, “To me 1967, the year that the Jews occupied all of Jerusalem, was very crucial.Luke 21:43 is one of the most significant prophetic verses: ‘Jerusalem,’ it reads, ‘shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.’ It seems to me that that took place in 1967—something crucially important that had not occurred in 2,000 years. Luke 21:43 is one fixed point. But I am equally impressed by Romans 11 which speaks of a great spiritual return among the Jews before the end time. While this seems to be developing, even something even more spectacular may be indicated.We sometimes tend to foreshorten events, yet I have a feeling that we are in the period of the end. . . . I think we are witnessing the breakdown of politics. I think even the world is seeing that. Civilization is collapsing.”

Jonathan Edwards
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
John Calvin
Charles Hodge
John Murray
R. C. Sproul
John MacArthur
Al Moeller
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I'm all for letting God do the regathering. Egypt didn't conquer Canaan for them the first time. Why should the nations do it for them now?

Besides, this 'regathering' has been a dismal failure. After nearly 80 years the vast majority of Jewry still chooses to stay where they are, and now with a net negative Jewish immigration rate, an exodus, as it were, is taking place from Occupied Palestine, a.k.a., Israel™.

What do you have to fear?
 
One of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” (Rev. 5:5)

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” (Rev. 22:16)​

Note the speaker and setting: the first is John's vision of heaven, where the Lamb is; the second is a direct quotation from the risen Christ himself. He is explicitly identified as of the tribe of Judah; and identifies himself as the descendant of David.

The incarnate Christ was an ethnic and religious Jew, of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of King David. The resurrected Christ, by his own confession, remains so.

Notwithstanding the drivel of posers who obsess about jOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOs.
 
Ransom said:
...fulfilled the Jewish Scriptures.
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...in the earth. When Jesus said, "it is finished," was He glorified or unglorified?

And they're not the "Jewish Scriptures" as if they weren't written for the Church.

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. - 1 Peter 1:10-12​
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The "Jewish Scriptures", as you call them are all pointing to the advent of a non-Levitical, divine Priest. One after the order of a man that preceded and was greater than the man Abraham.
 
Ransom said:
One of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” (Rev. 5:5)​
​
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” (Rev. 22:16)​

Note the speaker and setting: the first is John's vision of heaven, where the Lamb is; the second is a direct quotation from the risen Christ himself. He is explicitly identified as of the tribe of Judah; and identifies himself as the descendant of David.

The incarnate Christ was an ethnic and religious Jew, of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of King David. The resurrected Christ, by his own confession, remains so.

Notwithstanding the drivel of posers who obsess about jOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOs.
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What a boob. Yes, the Root and the Offspring of David...just as He is a Lamb.
 
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