Widespread Damage at US Bases.

[AverageJoe]

Correct, it happens in the Middle East. They have never attacked us on our soil. If we wouldn’t be over there those Americans would still be with their families.

You really ARE stupid, aren't you? Remove your head from your butt every now and again and live in the real world. They attacked our embassy 47 years ago and held our people hostage for 444 days. They let them go because they knew that Reagan was ready to bomb the hell out of them.

 

[biscuit1953]

Marco Rubio explained in plain language years ago why Iran must be stopped from acquiring nuclear weapons at all cost.

 

[Bruh]

You really ARE stupid, aren't you? Remove your head from your butt every now and again and live in the real world. They attacked our embassy 47 years ago and held our people hostage for 444 days. They let them go because they knew that Reagan was ready to bomb the hell out of them.

Why did those young people take hostages?

I’ve explained this more than once.

We did a regime change I believe it was in 1954. Iran was a westernized country at that point. And we put in what they have today. 27 years later, Those people before 1954 knew what it was before we did a regime change. I’m sure they were telling their kids and or grandkids what it was like before America did what they did. The hostage situation took place due to the fact that we literally changed everything they had.

I’m not stupid. I understand hurt. I understand tragedy. I understand pain. I understand loss. I understand loosing siblings. I understand suicide. I understand loosing family before they were in their 40’s. I understand children never to have their parent walk through their home again. I understand parents never to see their child again. And this is what we are making the innocent Iran people go through.

And I understand what happened in 1954 all because of oil. Iran has never attacked us on our soil. Neither did the Iraqis, Lybia or the others I could name. How many years were we in Iraq? How many innocent children died over there. How many soldiers never came home to their parents, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents? Tell me Iraq was a success go ahead please tell me that was a success. Tell me Lybia was a success. Tell me Afghanistan was a success. Tell me Vietnam was a success.

Next question.

 

[subllibrm]

Why did those young people take hostages?

I’ve explained this more than once.

We did a regime change I believe it was in 1954. Iran was a westernized country at that point. And we put in what they have today. 27 years later, Those people before 1954 knew what it was before we did a regime change. I’m sure they were telling their kids and or grandkids what it was like before America did what they did. The hostage situation took place due to the fact that we literally changed everything they had.

Well you are getting closer. But.

You are correct in that we helped overthrow their elected government and restored the Shah to the throne. You are partly correct in that it was about oil. The elected government was going to nationalize the oil industry. The oil companies would have lost their business to the Iranian government. The Shah and the elected government were both "western" by definition. Iran developed into a modern country with a broad western culture. The Islamic radicals eventually took over the country via revolution. The attack on the US embassy was in response to our part in bringing western culture to Iran. The goal was to punish the infidels that had polluted their country with western values. That is the reason they call us the Great Satan. The revolution replaced the regime of the Shah with the ayatollah and his government. They reigned in the western cultural traditions via arrests and executions, replacing them with Islamic radicalism and sharia law. That is what they have now. It is arguably true that what they have today came about because of our previous actions. But it is incorrect to say that we put in what "they have today".

 

[Bruh]

Well you are getting closer. But.

You are correct in that we helped overthrow their elected government and restored the Shah to the throne. You are partly correct in that it was about oil. The elected government was going to nationalize the oil industry. The oil companies would have lost their business to the Iranian government. The Shah and the elected government were both "western" by definition. Iran developed into a modern country with a broad western culture. The Islamic radicals eventually took over the country via revolution. The attack on the US embassy was in response to our part in bringing western culture to Iran. The goal was to punish the infidels that had polluted their country with western values. That is the reason they call us the Great Satan. The revolution replaced the regime of the Shah with the ayatollah and his government. They reigned in the western cultural traditions via arrests and executions, replacing them with Islamic radicalism and sharia law. That is what they have now. It is arguably true that what they have today came about because of our previous actions. But it is incorrect to say that we put in what "they have today".

Yes our CIA helped. I didn’t realize I needed to be soooo specific.

“came about because of our previous actions” tells me what they have is because of what we did.

I already said in a previous post that they were going to nationalize oil. I get tired of repeating myself. But I guess it’s good for some people on here that I don’t keep repeating myself because it allows people like you a chance to “believe” you’re correcting me and feel super duper educated, well read and self proclaimed historians.

 

[subllibrm]

Yes our CIA helped. I didn’t realize I needed to be soooo specific.

“came about because of our previous actions” tells me what they have is because of what we did.

I already said in a previous post that they were going to nationalize oil. I get tired of repeating myself. But I guess it’s good for some people on here that I don’t keep repeating myself because it allows people like you a chance to “believe” you’re correcting me and feel super duper educated, well read and self proclaimed historians.

You said "we put in what they have today" which is wrong. We did not.

 

[Bruh]

You said "we put in what they have today" which is wrong. We did not.

And I disagree

 

[ALAYMAN]

John Gill predates Zionism. He would indict you as an apostate for what you think of present day Israel™.

Here's Matthew Henry's commentary:

4. He gives a character of the child she should bear, which, however it may seem to us, perhaps was not very disagreeable to her (v. 12): He will be a wild man; a wild ass of a man(so the word is), rude, and bold, and fearing no man-untamed, untractable living at large, and impatient of service and restraint. Note, The children of the bondwoman, who are out of covenant with God, are, as they were born, like the wild ass's colt; it is grace that reclaims men, civilizes them, and makes them wise, and good for something. It is foretold,​

• (1.) That he should live in strife, and in a state of war: His hand against every man-this is his sin; and every man's hand against him-this is his punishment. Note, Those that have turbulent spirits have commonly troublesome lives; those that are provoking, vexatious, and injurious to others, must expect to be repaid in their own coin. He that has his hand and tongue against every man shall have every man's hand and tongue against him, and he has no reason to complain of it. And yet,

​

​

Who has been kicked out of practically every nation for their troublemaking?

What does Matthew Henry’s opinion have to do with John Gill? And if you compare the historical proof that the trouble Arabs have caused to western society to Judaism, you’re absolutely goofy. But I’m all ears, make your case and show your work.

 

[biscuit1953]

Ekklesian​

"John Gill predates Zionism. He would indict you as an apostate for what you think of present day Israel™.

Zionism - The belief that Jewish people share the right to live safely, freely, and independently in their historic homeland. Charles Spurgeon shared the same pulpit and followed very much in the footprints of John Gill.

Spurgeon on Zechariah – “This vision and prophecy graciously reveal the future history of Jerusalem. We may spiritualize it and say Jerusalem signifies the church, but we should not forget the literal meaning of the words. The Jewish people and their royal city will remain the center of the manifestations of divine glory. The nations of the earth will be joined to the Lord, a suburban population to the chosen city. Jerusalem will be rebuilt in more than her former splendor; the Jews will be restored to their own land; and Messiah will reign as a prince of the house of David.” The Spurgeon Study Bible

John Gill on Amos 9:14 - “And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel,.... Which is not to be understood of the captivity of the Jews in Babylon, and their return from thence, with whom some of the ten tribes of Israel were mixed; for they were not then so planted in their own land as no more to be pulled up again, as is here promised; for they afterwards were dispossessed of it by the Romans, and carried captive, and dispersed among the nations again; but the captivity both of Judah and Israel is meant, their present captivity, which will be brought back, and they will be delivered from it, and return to their own land, and possess it as long as it is a land; see Jer_30:3; as well as be freed from the bondage of sin, Satan, and the law, under which they have been detained some hundreds of years; but now shall be delivered into the glorious liberty of the children of God, of Christians, with which Christ has made them free:

and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; literally the cities in Judea wasted by the Turks, and others; and mystically the churches of Christ, of which saints are fellow citizens, and will be in a desolate condition before the conversion of the Jews, and the gathering in the fulness of the Gentiles; but by these means will be rebuilt, and be in a flourishing condition, and fall of inhabitants:

and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them; which, as before, will be literally true; and in a spiritual sense may signify the churches of Christ, compared to vineyards and gardens, which will be planted everywhere, and be set with pleasant and fruitful plants, and will turn to the advantage of those who have been instruments in planting them; see Son_6:2.”

John Gill on Romans 11:26 - And so all Israel shall be saved,.... Meaning not the mystical spiritual Israel of God, consisting both of Jews and Gentiles, who shall appear to be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation, when all God's elect among the latter are gathered in, which is the sense many give into; but the people of the Jews, the generality of them, the body of that nation, called "the fulness" of them, Rom_11:12, and relates to the latter day, when a nation of them shall be born again at once; “

There is no reason to spiritualize the prophecies of the regathering of the Jews to their homeland. Many Reformed theologians believed in a future conversion of national/ethnic Israel that don’t don’t conform 100% to your beliefs.

Theologians Who Expected Israel’s Future Conversion | Phil Layton

Phil Layton surveys noted theologians who believed Romans 9–11 and other prophecies teach a future conversion of national and ethnic Israel.

www.monergism.com

 

[subllibrm]

And I disagree

Cite your evidence that the United States of America installed sharia law in Iran or that we placed the ayatollah as the head of their government. That is what they have now and you claim that "we put in what they have today"

Prove it.

 

[Bruh]

Cite your evidence that the United States of America installed sharia law in Iran or that we placed the ayatollah as the head of their government. That is what they have now and you claim that "we put in what they have today"

Prove it.

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

nsarchive2.gwu.edu

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran CoupDocuments Provide New Details on Mosaddeq Overthrow and Its Aftermath​

What the declassified record establishes is that the U.S. and British intelligence services deliberately planned and supported the overthrow and that CIA resources were used to influence events leading to Mosaddegh’s removal.

 

[Ekklesian]

What does Matthew Henry’s opinion have to do with John Gill? And if you compare the historical proof that the trouble Arabs have caused to western society to Judaism, you’re absolutely goofy. But I’m all ears, make your case and show your work.

He doesn't have anything to do with John Gill. Henry's commentary is just another learned look at the prophecy.

His hand is against every man. Where are the death chants for Australia et al? In fact, Muslims and Jews have lived in peace for centuries. Still do. Jews have had a presence in Iran for thousands of years, and Iran is still home to a sizable community of them who have no desire to immigrate to Israel™. More than that, consider Israel™ their enemy. It's only been since Zionism that there has been the kind of conflict like what we're seeing now. The mantra that it's just the continuation of a 3000 year old rivalry is BS.

Islam and Judaism are much more alike than they are different. That's why they've gotten along until the novel ideology of Zionism began to take hold. They have one important difference...the Muslims don't hate Jesus.

And I have shown my work. You just didn't bother to pay attention.

 

[biscuit1953]

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

nsarchive2.gwu.edu

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran CoupDocuments Provide New Details on Mosaddeq Overthrow and Its Aftermath​

What the declassified record establishes is that the U.S. and British intelligence services deliberately planned and supported the overthrow and that CIA resources were used to influence events leading to Mosaddegh’s removal.

You have clearly shown that whatever the CIA or any other government agency has done in the past, it has nothing to do with President Trump stopping a radical Islamic regime from getting a nuclear weapon to put on intercontinental missiles that can reach the United States. Iran had already lied about their missile capability when they struck Diego Garcia which is 2,500 miles away. I thank God He allowed Donald Trump to become President.

 

[biscuit1953]

He doesn't have anything to do with John Gill. Henry's commentary is just another learned look at the prophecy.

His hand is against every man. Where are the death chants for Australia et al? In fact, Muslims and Jews have lived in peace for centuries. Still do. Jews have had a presence in Iran for thousands of years, and Iran is still home to a sizable community of them who have no desire to immigrate to Israel™. More than that, consider Israel™ their enemy. It's only been since Zionism that there has been the kind of conflict like what we're seeing now. The mantra that it's just the continuation of a 3000 year old rivalry is BS.

Islam and Judaism are much more alike than they are different. That's why they've gotten along until the novel ideology of Zionism began to take hold. They have one important difference...the Muslims don't hate Jesus.

And I have shown my work. You just didn't bother to pay attention.

You have shown that you reject the clear prophecies concerning the nation of Israel by spiritualizing them away. Many Reformed theologians disagree with you, not just Dispensationalists and there are as many differences among Reformed Christians as there are among Dispensationalists. You need to accept the fact that not everyone who disagrees with you is an apostate. Your hatred for Jews has blinded your mind to the point that you will defend a nation like Iran which has killed thousands of its own people and whose radical form of Islam has spread terrorism around the world.

 

[ALAYMAN]

He doesn't have anything to do with John Gill. Henry's commentary is just another learned look at the prophecy.

His hand is against every man. Where are the death chants for Australia et al? In fact, Muslims and Jews have lived in peace for centuries. Still do. Jews have had a presence in Iran for thousands of years, and Iran is still home to a sizable community of them who have no desire to immigrate to Israel™. More than that, consider Israel™ their enemy. It's only been since Zionism that there has been the kind of conflict like what we're seeing now. The mantra that it's just the continuation of a 3000 year old rivalry is BS.

Islam and Judaism are much more alike than they are different. That's why they've gotten along until the novel ideology of Zionism began to take hold. They have one important difference...the Muslims don't hate Jesus.

And I have shown my work. You just didn't bother to pay attention.

Well, I guess that settles it. Thanks for the convincing argument.

 

[Bruh]

You have clearly shown that whatever the CIA or any other government agency has done in the past, it has nothing to do with President Trump stopping a radical Islamic regime from getting a nuclear weapon to put on intercontinental missiles that can reach the United States. Iran had already lied about their missile capability when they struck Diego Garcia which is 2,500 miles away. I thank God He allowed Donald Trump to become President.

President​	1945–present military conflicts/interventions​
Harry Truman	Korean War, Greece and other interventions
Dwight Eisenhower	Iran, Guatemala, Lebanon
John F. Kennedy	Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Laos, Cuban Missile Crisis
Lyndon Johnson	Vietnam War, Dominican Republic
Richard Nixon	Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos bombing
Gerald Ford	Mayaguez incident
Jimmy Carter	Iran hostage rescue attempt, Afghanistan-related operations
Ronald Reagan	Lebanon, Grenada, Libya bombing, Persian Gulf
George H. W. Bush	Panama, Gulf War, Somalia
Bill Clinton	Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan/Afghanistan strikes
George W. Bush	Afghanistan and Iraq wars
Barack Obama	Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, drone campaigns
Donald Trump (1st term)	Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq/Syria, Yemen, Iran
Joe Biden	Afghanistan withdrawal, Iraq/Syria strikes, Yemen/Red Sea
Donald Trump (2nd term)	Current military operations, including major 2026 operations

The U.S. has conducted foreign airstrikes under both Democratic and Republican presidents. This isn’t something confined to one party.

Hope everyone here can see this. It goes thru every “conflict” after WWII. I’m guessing this will mean nothing to most on here that believe the Iran war is justified.

When I look at this I ask, what has America accomplished in all of this?

People have said this administration is different. It looks like he’s falling in line with all the other presidents. How is Trump any different?

 

[Bruh]

You have clearly shown that whatever the CIA or any other government agency has done in the past, it has nothing to do with President Trump stopping a radical Islamic regime from getting a nuclear weapon to put on intercontinental missiles that can reach the United States. Iran had already lied about their missile capability when they struck Diego Garcia which is 2,500 miles away. I thank God He allowed Donald Trump to become President.

President​	Examples​
Harry Truman	Korea (1950–53) — extensive U.S. bombing of North Korea.Â
John F. Kennedy	Vietnam/Laos — U.S. air operations expanded substantially during his administration.Â
Lyndon Johnson	Vietnam — Operation Rolling Thunder, one of the largest U.S. bombing campaigns.Â
Richard Nixon	Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos — including the secret B-52 bombing of Cambodia.Â
Gerald Ford	Cambodia — Mayaguez rescue involved U.S. air attacks.Â
Ronald Reagan	Lebanon, Libya — authorized airstrikes in Lebanon and the 1986 bombing of Libya.Â
George H.W. Bush	Panama and Iraq — Gulf War began with a massive U.S.-led air campaign.Â
Bill Clinton	Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan/Sudan — multiple U.S. bombing and airstrike operations.
George W. Bush	Afghanistan and Iraq — enormous air campaigns beginning in 2001 and 2003.
Barack Obama	Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia — extensive drone and conventional air campaigns. CRS documents, for example, Obama’s 2011 Libya operation.Â
Donald Trump (1st term)	Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen — including strikes against Syrian government targets.Â
Joe Biden	Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia — including strikes against Iranian-backed groups and Houthi targets.Â
Donald Trump (2nd term)	Yemen and Iran, among other operations. In 2026, U.S. forces conducted strikes against Iranian targets.Â

Tell me again that this administration is different from other administrations.

Do you people realize the scope and scale of this.

 

[illinoisguy]

"Losing the Long Game - the False Promise of Regime Change in the Middle East" by Philip Gordon. Here is a good book for those who believe that these interventions, regime changes and nation building wars in the Middle East are a good idea. So far, the record of such actions is 100% failure. That's why I never supported the war in Iran, although Duh at one point seemed to think that I did.

 

[I'll be ready!]

I was surprised in that list to see both Iran and Lebanon were an issue under Eisenhower.

 

[subllibrm]

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran Coup

nsarchive2.gwu.edu

CIA Confirms Role in 1953 Iran CoupDocuments Provide New Details on Mosaddeq Overthrow and Its Aftermath​

What the declassified record establishes is that the U.S. and British intelligence services deliberately planned and supported the overthrow and that CIA resources were used to influence events leading to Mosaddegh’s removal.

And installed the Shah. When did the US install the ayatollah and sharia law? That is the claim that you have made.