Always Be Ready

[Route_70]

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
-- I Peter 3:15

This verse does not mean that you are to debate your position on Genesis creation or any such.  This verse very clearly indicates that the good Christian is to witness to "every man."  Don't make a shmuck of yourself by trying to debate me on topics of which you know nothing.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Even so, one would have to prove that I Peter was actually written by Peter before addressing the verse authoritatively.

Seems to me the letter of I Peter was authored after Peter died which kinda destroys the apostolic authoritative nature.

 

[Route_70]

Even so, one would have to prove that I Peter was actually written by Peter before addressing the verse authoritatively.

Seems to me the letter of I Peter was authored after Peter died which kinda destroys the apostolic authoritative nature.

1.  Why?  What difference does it make who wrote it?

2.  How can you prove such a thing?  How can you prove anything of the sort?

3.  Only in mathematics can you actually "prove" anything.

4.  I can only presume that you haven't missed the point of my post -- surely not!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

1.  Why?  What difference does it make who wrote it?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia...

Quite simple. If the author is not as the first verse indicates, it would imply the letter might have been nothing more than a piece of religious propaganda. It would bring into question everything in the letter.

2.  How can you prove such a thing?  How can you prove anything of the sort?

Logic implies it to be the case. Peter died between AD 64-69. The earliest pockets of Christianity found in Asia Minor were mentioned by Pliney the Younger in AD 117 (or so) where he traces it back to about AD 90. So Christians were not persecuted in this part of the world until about 20-25 years after Peter died.

Peter and the Romans suffered under Nero, hence the author needed not make a rhetorical question in 3:13. Plus, the writer seemed to have a lot of knowledge about the Greek culture/philosophy (perhaps Gnosticism) and the Bible says elsewhere that Peter was a fisherman and considered an "unlearned" man. It is doubtful he was schooled in the Greek culture.

Though this isn't "rock-solid" proof, logic would imply Peter's letter was written by another long after his death.

3.  Only in mathematics can you actually "prove" anything.

Do you have proof of that? Is this an admission that atheists are wrong because they cannot prove there is no god?

4.  I can only presume that you haven't missed the point of my post -- surely not!

I have not missed your point.

Glad to see you back!

 

[Route_70]

I have not missed your point.

Glad to see you back!

I'll give you a mulligan and let you go this time.

Pliney the Younger.  Really?

 

[penhobby]

I have not missed your point.

Glad to see you back!

I'll give you a mulligan and let you go this time.

Pliney the Younger.  Really?

Personally I think arguing the validity of an individual book of the Bible is about as useless as arguing the validity of the Bible as a whole. Too many men have had their fingers in the Bible for it to be taken in any way serious.    : 

Route_70! How have you been my friend? BTW, the debate was just getting good when you granted that mulligan.

 

[Route_70]

Route_70! How have you been my friend? BTW, the debate was just getting good when you granted that mulligan.

Hey, pen:  I see you!

This place is better than what the old forum became after Andrew sold it.  This place is not nearly as good as what the old forum was before Andrew sold it.  The main reason for that lies in the behavior of the admin:  on the old forum Andrew was much more professional.  On the old forum the admin was an admin -- not much of a participant.  Here, the admin participates freely, and if you ask a tough question he yells "Troll," then bans you.

For example, knowing that there are some posters on here who are homosexual, he has started a thread, which is clearly intended to invoke criticism towards those posters.  Typical of the so-called "Christians" on this forum.  How very disengenuous!  What a weasel!

But, from what I've read, most of the posters on this forum can go either way.  I mean, if you read their posts, you see where they say that sexual orientation is a "choice!"

 

[penhobby]

Sexual orientation is not a choice. It is a genetic trait, like hair color or ugly feet or a receding hairline, or the beautiful green/blue eye color you grandmother passed onto you. But having said that, I do not understand the term Gay Christian. The Christian Bible is clear on this subject. Homosexuality is a sin, and hell is the punishment. If you want to rape a woman, go right ahead and then pay her daddy some silver and you may even marry her. If your wife looks at another man, or treats you in a disrespectful way, you may choose to have her stoned to death, and take another more respectful wife. If your children are disrespectful you may also have them stoned to death. If Christians are going to declare that they follow the Bible, then they should follow the Bible, and not just the parts they choose to acknowledge.

If I were to suspend my disbelief and attempt to take the Bible in any way serious, I would be forced to throw aside every moral value I hold dear. Yeah no. I am free

 

[penhobby]

Route_70! How have you been my friend? BTW, the debate was just getting good when you granted that mulligan.

Hey, pen:  I see you!

This place is better than what the old forum became after Andrew sold it.  This place is not nearly as good as what the old forum was before Andrew sold it.  The main reason for that lies in the behavior of the admin:  on the old forum Andrew was much more professional.  On the old forum the admin was an admin -- not much of a participant.  Here, the admin participates freely, and if you ask a tough question he yells "Troll," then bans you.

For example, knowing that there are some posters on here who are homosexual, he has started a thread, which is clearly intended to invoke criticism towards those posters.  Typical of the so-called "Christians" on this forum.  How very disengenuous!  What a weasel!

But, from what I've read, most of the posters on this forum can go either way.  I mean, if you read their posts, you see where they say that sexual orientation is a "choice!"

I just read portions of that thread. I choose not to subject my mind to anymore of the shameful or outright ignorant responses.

This is a fantastic book about this issue, but most on here will view it at best, with disdain, and at worst, as being of the Devil. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/reinventing-the-male-homosexual-robert-alan-brookey/1101477249?ean=9780253340573 

 

[Al]

Sexual orientation is not a choice. It is a genetic trait, like hair color or ugly feet or a receding hairline, or the beautiful green/blue eye color you grandmother passed onto you. But having said that, I do not understand the term Gay Christian. The Christian Bible is clear on this subject. Homosexuality is a sin, and hell is the punishment. If you want to rape a woman, go right ahead and then pay her daddy some silver and you may even marry her. If your wife looks at another man, or treats you in a disrespectful way, you may choose to have her stoned to death, and take another more respectful wife. If your children are disrespectful you may also have them stoned to death. If Christians are going to declare that they follow the Bible, then they should follow the Bible, and not just the parts they choose to acknowledge.

If I were to suspend my disbelief and attempt to take the Bible in any way serious, I would be forced to throw aside every moral value I hold dear. Yeah no. I am free

You are CORRECT: the Bible, indeed, teaches that homosexuality is a sin; that the homosexual is a reprobate and that he is destined to hell if he doesn't "repent".

I have a friend who is gay and he had gone to bible college years ago. But he is convinced that God led him to his current partner and that they are in "God's will". If you read upstairs, you will find lots of things that for ages weren't questioned but now that modern day society has veered so far away from the Bible, the biblicists try to redefine what the Bible says so that they can STILL "play church".

And that's what has happened with my friend. He has come up with some of the STUPIDIST explanations about God, the Bible and homosexuality. That way he can still go to church and talk "religious" even though he is something that the Bible so clearly (and clearly understood for ages) teaches is damnable.

It's better to do what you do: admit the Bible teaches what it teaches and then decide where you are going from there: do you believe it or not - if you DO believe it, are you going to follow it or not.

But don't mess with the Bible: it teaches what it teaches.

 

[Al]

As with any life-dominating sin. Any sin can control people to such a degree that they ultimately reject Scripture.

Consider the goons from Westboro Baptist Church. It is clear that pride of life has led them down the road to perdition.

I have never understood the negativity hurled towards the Phelps from Bible believers.

God DOES hate fags.

God DID kill everyone over there in Sodom.

God DOES turn wicked, evil and rebellious homosexuals over to a reprobate mind.

God WILL send homosexuals to hell unless they don't stop being homosexuals as such were some of them in Corinth.

This Phelps is a preacher who believes the above. Why is he a "goon" because he speaks up about it? People never like to be corrected. Jonah knew that. He went to sea.

Phelps hasn't. He's stood firm all these years preaching against the wickedness of those evil homosexuals in the face of almost unanimous condemnation.

It seems like a very unkind thing to do to picket someone's funeral but if it draws attention to the idea that God is mad now and it's all because of the fags, couldn't it be that he's being led of the Lord to do this?

Why is he a goon for preaching openly and outwardly the same things posters say upstairs under a pseudonym? After all, he IS a preacher.

Just wondering.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Al]I have never understood the negativity hurled towards the Phelps from Bible believers...

Phelps hasn't. He's stood firm all these years preaching against the wickedness of those evil homosexuals in the face of almost unanimous condemnation.

It seems like a very unkind thing to do to picket someone's funeral but if it draws attention to the idea that God is mad now and it's all because of the fags, couldn't it be that he's being led of the Lord to do this?

Why is he a goon for preaching openly and outwardly the same things posters say upstairs under a pseudonym? After all, he IS a preacher. [/quote]

Because protesting funerals and promoting hatred of anyone is exactly what Jesus meant when He said love one another, right?

And, FTR, the posters who would echo Phelps are as wrong on the handling of this issue as this "preacher" is. They just have the decency and/or cowardice not to actually follow through on it.

 

[Torrent v.3]

As with any life-dominating sin. Any sin can control people to such a degree that they ultimately reject Scripture.

Consider the goons from Westboro Baptist Church. It is clear that pride of life has led them down the road to perdition.

I have never understood the negativity hurled towards the Phelps from Bible believers.

God DOES hate fags.

God DID kill everyone over there in Sodom.

God DOES turn wicked, evil and rebellious homosexuals over to a reprobate mind.

God WILL send homosexuals to hell unless they don't stop being homosexuals as such were some of them in Corinth.

This Phelps is a preacher who believes the above. Why is he a "goon" because he speaks up about it? People never like to be corrected. Jonah knew that. He went to sea.

Phelps hasn't. He's stood firm all these years preaching against the wickedness of those evil homosexuals in the face of almost unanimous condemnation.

It seems like a very unkind thing to do to picket someone's funeral but if it draws attention to the idea that God is mad now and it's all because of the fags, couldn't it be that he's being led of the Lord to do this?

Why is he a goon for preaching openly and outwardly the same things posters say upstairs under a pseudonym? After all, he IS a preacher.

Just wondering.

Seriously?

God loves fags.  God hates the sin they committ just like he hates the lies you tell.  If you conclude that he hates sinners because of their sin, then God hates you.

 

[Al]

As with any life-dominating sin. Any sin can control people to such a degree that they ultimately reject Scripture.

Consider the goons from Westboro Baptist Church. It is clear that pride of life has led them down the road to perdition.

I have never understood the negativity hurled towards the Phelps from Bible believers.

God DOES hate fags.

God DID kill everyone over there in Sodom.

God DOES turn wicked, evil and rebellious homosexuals over to a reprobate mind.

God WILL send homosexuals to hell unless they don't stop being homosexuals as such were some of them in Corinth.

This Phelps is a preacher who believes the above. Why is he a "goon" because he speaks up about it? People never like to be corrected. Jonah knew that. He went to sea.

Phelps hasn't. He's stood firm all these years preaching against the wickedness of those evil homosexuals in the face of almost unanimous condemnation.

It seems like a very unkind thing to do to picket someone's funeral but if it draws attention to the idea that God is mad now and it's all because of the fags, couldn't it be that he's being led of the Lord to do this?

Why is he a goon for preaching openly and outwardly the same things posters say upstairs under a pseudonym? After all, he IS a preacher.

Just wondering.

Seriously?

God loves fags.  God hates the sin they committ just like he hates the lies you tell.  If you conclude that he hates sinners because of their sin, then God hates you.

I am sorry you feel I tell lies.

But let me tell you a TRUTH: the god as described in the compilation of writings we call the bible does, indeed, hate gays - and others too:

"The foolish shall not stand in thy site. Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

"The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence, his soul hateth."


I'm glad to see that some of you are outraged by Phelps. I just don't understand your inconsistency considering your beliefs on this issue. 

Thanks

 

[Torrent v.3]

As with any life-dominating sin. Any sin can control people to such a degree that they ultimately reject Scripture.

Consider the goons from Westboro Baptist Church. It is clear that pride of life has led them down the road to perdition.

I have never understood the negativity hurled towards the Phelps from Bible believers.

God DOES hate fags.

God DID kill everyone over there in Sodom.

God DOES turn wicked, evil and rebellious homosexuals over to a reprobate mind.

God WILL send homosexuals to hell unless they don't stop being homosexuals as such were some of them in Corinth.

This Phelps is a preacher who believes the above. Why is he a "goon" because he speaks up about it? People never like to be corrected. Jonah knew that. He went to sea.

Phelps hasn't. He's stood firm all these years preaching against the wickedness of those evil homosexuals in the face of almost unanimous condemnation.

It seems like a very unkind thing to do to picket someone's funeral but if it draws attention to the idea that God is mad now and it's all because of the fags, couldn't it be that he's being led of the Lord to do this?

Why is he a goon for preaching openly and outwardly the same things posters say upstairs under a pseudonym? After all, he IS a preacher.

Just wondering.

Seriously?

God loves fags.  God hates the sin they committ just like he hates the lies you tell.  If you conclude that he hates sinners because of their sin, then God hates you.

I am sorry you feel I tell lies.

But let me tell you a TRUTH: the god as described in the compilation of writings we call the bible does, indeed, hate gays - and others too:

"The foolish shall not stand in thy site. Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

"The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence, his soul hateth."


I'm glad to see that some of you are outraged by Phelps. I just don't understand your inconsistency considering your beliefs on this issue. 

Thanks

He hates you too, then, or are you telling me that you have never told a lie?

 

[Al]

The god as described in the Bible would most definitely hate me. I am a sinful reprobate - having been turned over to a reprobate mind, oh, somewhere around 4 or 5 and having not been chosen before the foundation of the world. I don't think there is any doubt that this god would hate me.

Yes, I have told a lie before.

But I do not "tell lies".

There is a difference.

Both Phelps and his god hate me. How about you?

 

[FSSL]

...having not been chosen before the foundation of the world.

How do you know this?

 

[Al]

...having not been chosen before the foundation of the world.

How do you know this?

While I don't "KNOW" it, I suspect it

because Biblically speaking, we are saved by God's grace through faith and that faith is a gift.

I do not have faith. I do not believe that the god as described in the Bible would have given me that gift since I don't have it. It makes sense to me that that those verses that talk about election and predestination would be true if any of it was true. And unfortunately, I would have been one of those that was not chosen and was not given the gift of faith

since I don't have it.

And can't get it.

 

[Al]

Because none of us knew if we were predestined to salvation, until we were saved, we are to reserve judgement against others.

God is in the business of saving even the "chiefest" of sinners. He is able to save those whom we view as unsalvable.

If there really was something to be saved from, I would agree that The Great Creator would be able to save whoEVER he wanted to.

Even me.

 

[Babar]

God loves us all.  He does not wish anyone to perish.

If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can do so much.