Billy Graham
- Thread starter RAIDER
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Mixed feelings, as you would expect from an IFB.
Was never happy with his ecclesiastical connections which no doubt caused many to stumble.
He said things tha thave made me raise my eyebrows more than once.
Kind of reminded me of Balaam in a way. I know that is harsh, but the premise rings true in my mind.
Balaam did tell Balak the truth up front, but later caused the children of Israel to commit whoredoms with the Moabites.
OTOH, multitudes were won to Christ throughout his life and Graham was a major face for Christianity over the last 65 years.
There is nobody like him that has that same 'aura' if you will that can be considered 'The Face of Christianity'.
In my thinking, he was one of the 'well knowns' to the world amongst Christianity like Jerry Falwell, J. Vernon McGee, Adrian Rogers et. al...and to a lesser extent, men like Jack Hyles, Curtis Hutson, Lee Roberson, Tom Malone et al...(only lesser b/c these were more prominent amongst IFB's and more conservative Baptists).
Very few today seem to have the impact that these people have had.
Very few today rise above the pack as these men have.
IOW, don't know of any today (that are household names) that have the world wide or national influence that these men have had.
Was never happy with his ecclesiastical connections which no doubt caused many to stumble.
He said things tha thave made me raise my eyebrows more than once.
Kind of reminded me of Balaam in a way. I know that is harsh, but the premise rings true in my mind.
Balaam did tell Balak the truth up front, but later caused the children of Israel to commit whoredoms with the Moabites.
OTOH, multitudes were won to Christ throughout his life and Graham was a major face for Christianity over the last 65 years.
There is nobody like him that has that same 'aura' if you will that can be considered 'The Face of Christianity'.
In my thinking, he was one of the 'well knowns' to the world amongst Christianity like Jerry Falwell, J. Vernon McGee, Adrian Rogers et. al...and to a lesser extent, men like Jack Hyles, Curtis Hutson, Lee Roberson, Tom Malone et al...(only lesser b/c these were more prominent amongst IFB's and more conservative Baptists).
Very few today seem to have the impact that these people have had.
Very few today rise above the pack as these men have.
IOW, don't know of any today (that are household names) that have the world wide or national influence that these men have had.
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Interesting man.
No scandals.
His popularity was made in part by the newspapers being told to "fluff Graham". He had little convictions as he married a Presbyterian and he a Southern Baptist. Of course, we all know that hotness overcomes doctrine.
We can look back and see the effect of his popularity causing him to compromise.
But when he stuck to the basic gospel message, there is no doubt the Holy Spirit used him. We can all learn from that.
No scandals.
His popularity was made in part by the newspapers being told to "fluff Graham". He had little convictions as he married a Presbyterian and he a Southern Baptist. Of course, we all know that hotness overcomes doctrine.
We can look back and see the effect of his popularity causing him to compromise.
But when he stuck to the basic gospel message, there is no doubt the Holy Spirit used him. We can all learn from that.
Twisted said:
I'm not sure if marrying a Presbyterian is a good indicator of "little" convictions lol. You have to remember he married a Presbyterian during a time when Presbyterian fundamentalists existed (Billy Sunday, J. Vernon McGee).
Twisted said:
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/billy-graham-richard-nixon-tapes-the-one-time-graham-image-was-tarnished/DCj06gfORZJLYa30cLawWL/
Graham was a good man and had a great ministry. Not completely scandal free. He had feet of clay like everyone else. Considering all the years in the public eye he did run the race well.
RAIDER said:
His view remained the same that it was a literal place. Some have taken his comments on air (Larry King's show) off and out of context, which were of course later corrected by Graham publicly.
A friend of mine tells the story holding a meeting in the south somewhere before cell phones. A lady came up to him & told him the story of how she broke down somewhere out in the countryside. She said a man came walking by who asked what the problem might be. He told her he knew of a mechanic further down the road & he would send her help, A while later a wrecker came & towed her vehicle to a shop where they fixed the problem.
When she asked how much the bill would be the shop owner said you don't owe anything your bill is already paid. He asked her, "Don't you know who that was that sent help to you? That man was Billy Graham."
When she asked how much the bill would be the shop owner said you don't owe anything your bill is already paid. He asked her, "Don't you know who that was that sent help to you? That man was Billy Graham."
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RAIDER said:
Yes, they were right to separate. No, Graham was wrong to compromise.
John R. Rice used to have "city-wide meetings" with groups other than Baptists. Nazarene's come to mind. Nazarene's preach a "works" salvation (in that you can lose it).
John R. Rice separated from Graham.
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Twisted said:
Dr Hyles never preached with Graham.
Of course, Graham never had an office next to Jennie Nischik.
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RAIDER said:
Remeber, I said, "Nazarenes come to mind". A mind diluted with drugs is hardly "factual". LOL!
I found this online. Notice the author makes a distinction between "churches" and "Baptist churches". 115 churches could not have been all Baptist churches.
"Having majored in single church campaigns, he was now getting invitations from groups of pastors to have him lead them in union campaigns. One of the first such campaigns was in Minneapolis where sixteen churches chaired by Richard Clearwaters called Rice ... some 200 were saved. In March, 1944 it was Everett, Washington, with Stratton Shufelt as his regular songleader and soloist, some 300 to 400 were saved. In April, 1944, he held one of his largest campaigns in Buffalo, New York, at the Kleinhans Music Hall. Closing services saw thousands crowd in with hundreds standing or turned away. Some 115 churches participated and the number of first-time decisions was 997. Another great campaign was in Cleveland, Ohio, February 11 to March 11, 1945, with 93 cooperating churches. This campaign had some 800 first-time decisions for Christ and a closing night crowd of 3,767 jamming the Cleveland Public Music Hall. Again Shufelt was heading a fine musical program. Rice was now 49 years old. Youth for Christ and Jack Wyrtzen were a new phenomenon, and evangelism was becoming popular again. Hundreds of young men were entering the field of evangelism, many from Bob Jones University. Rice continued to do the work of two men for several years - large scale evangelism and editing and writing. In January of 1946, some 48 churches sponsored him in Pontiac, Michigan. In March, 1946, it was Miami, Florida, where 44 Baptist churches sponsored him, and in fifteen days there were 600 professions of faith at the meetings and another 400 in the public school meetings. A great Chicago crusade was held in May of 1946 with Rice speaking during the final fifteen days ... the first united campaign there since Sunday's meetings in 1918. Over 2,000 decisions were made during the series which also featured Bob Jones, Sr., and Paul Rood in the weeks preceding Rice's ministry. In September, 1946, Rice held a campaign in Dayton, Ohio, with some 500 decisions for Christ at the meetings and 450 more at the high school services. Harry D. Clarke was now his songleader. In January, 1947, 20 churches brought him to Lima, Ohio with some 500 saved at services and schools. The Rice-Clarke team was in Marion, Ohio, in February with over 200 first-time professions of faith. In March and April, the team held a large tent campaign in San Pedro, California, with some 600 decisions for Christ. Seattle, Washington, Winston-Salem, North Carolina, and other cities were also to be stirred."
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To be more "factual", the difference between Rice and Graham was that Graham wanted liberals to work with him
Rice refused to work with such.
What's interesting is that today we would blast a brother for working with a Southern Baptist.
The difference is the times we live in. Nazarenes, Assembly of God, etc. were closer to the truth of the gospel back in the 30's and 40's than today.
Rice refused to work with such.
What's interesting is that today we would blast a brother for working with a Southern Baptist.
The difference is the times we live in. Nazarenes, Assembly of God, etc. were closer to the truth of the gospel back in the 30's and 40's than today.
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Twisted said:
In my readings Rice definitely had non-Baptists involved with campaigns. They were non-Baptists that preached the Gospel. Graham had preachers that preach a works salvation working with his crusades. I find this to be a major difference between the two.