Did Peter Preached Two Different Gospels?

[ChristB4us]

Disclaimer: I believe Peter preached only one gospel but some may apply his words in Acts 2:38 to mean otherwise in spite of the same gospel Peter preached in Acts 10:43-48.

Let us examine the one gospel that this same Peter preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter preached that whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and as a result. those that heard the word, believed, and got born again of the Spirit. Note how they were saved before water baptism. Also note how they had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now to the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews of Acts 2:38, but in context of Acts 2:36-39.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now in context, Peter just informed the Jews that God had made that same Jesus, both Lord & Christ, Whom they had crucified "in unbelief". It is on this truth that they were pricked in their hearts, asking Peter, "What shall we do?" So when Peter said "Repent", it is in regards to them having crucified Jesus in unbelief and so to repent here is by believing in Jesus Christ for how they got that same remission of sins & the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

It is because Acts 2:38 has been taken out of context so much that errant teachings has come about like:

Error #1 You have to be water baptized to get that remission of sins.

There is only one gospel and this same Peter preached the same one gospel to both the Gentiles & the Jews.

Error #2 You cannot get the Holy Ghost without being water baptized first.

In that same gospel Peter had preached to the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Error #3 You have to repent from all sins before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ

In the same gospel preached to the Gentiles, Peter had not used the word "Repent" but to believe in Jesus Christ for the Gentile believers to receive the remission of sins.

Now saved, with Jesus Christ in us, we can look to the author & finisher of our faith daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Discipleship is separate from salvation because we need Him in us to look to Jesus Christ for help in following Him as that is how we are to run that race; by faith in Jesus Christ.

Sinners that walk away from that apostate altar call to repent from all sins before coming to Jesus Christ need to be informed that Jesus Christ also came to deliver them from their sins so they no longer have to live in them. Jesus Christ is more than just hope for eternal life in being saved from hell, but to help us live the abundant life with God, of sin not having dominion over our lives any more.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure...... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage..... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

If any one doubts what that gospel is all about, Paul preached the same gospel whereby he was offered the right hand of fellowship with James, Cephas ( Peter ) & John.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

So neither Peter nor Paul preached two different gospel but the same gospel of believing in Jesus Christ is how we are saved in receiving that remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Discipleship can begin with water baptism in His name after salvation, but it is to serve as a public witness at conversion. Lacking water baptism, the saved believer can still follow Jesus Christ by faith which is what discipleship as in running that race in moving unto perfection is really all about in helping us to follow Him daily as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Could we get a TL;DR version?

 

[Ekklesian]

Disclaimer: I believe Peter preached only one gospel but some may apply his words in Acts 2:38 to mean otherwise in spite of the same gospel Peter preached in Acts 10:43-48.

Let us examine the one gospel that this same Peter preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter preached that whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and as a result. those that heard the word, believed, and got born again of the Spirit. Note how they were saved before water baptism. Also note how they had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now to the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews of Acts 2:38, but in context of Acts 2:36-39.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now in context, Peter just informed the Jews that God had made that same Jesus, both Lord & Christ, Whom they had crucified "in unbelief". It is on this truth that they were pricked in their hearts, asking Peter, "What shall we do?" So when Peter said "Repent", it is in regards to them having crucified Jesus in unbelief and so to repent here is by believing in Jesus Christ for how they got that same remission of sins & the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

It is because Acts 2:38 has been taken out of context so much that errant teachings has come about like:

Error #1 You have to be water baptized to get that remission of sins.

There is only one gospel and this same Peter preached the same one gospel to both the Gentiles & the Jews.

Error #2 You cannot get the Holy Ghost without being water baptized first.

In that same gospel Peter had preached to the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Error #3 You have to repent from all sins before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ

In the same gospel preached to the Gentiles, Peter had not used the word "Repent" but to believe in Jesus Christ for the Gentile believers to receive the remission of sins.

Now saved, with Jesus Christ in us, we can look to the author & finisher of our faith daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Discipleship is separate from salvation because we need Him in us to look to Jesus Christ for help in following Him as that is how we are to run that race; by faith in Jesus Christ.

Sinners that walk away from that apostate altar call to repent from all sins before coming to Jesus Christ need to be informed that Jesus Christ also came to deliver them from their sins so they no longer have to live in them. Jesus Christ is more than just hope for eternal life in being saved from hell, but to help us live the abundant life with God, of sin not having dominion over our lives any more.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure...... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage..... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

If any one doubts what that gospel is all about, Paul preached the same gospel whereby he was offered the right hand of fellowship with James, Cephas ( Peter ) & John.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

So neither Peter nor Paul preached two different gospel but the same gospel of believing in Jesus Christ is how we are saved in receiving that remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Discipleship can begin with water baptism in His name after salvation, but it is to serve as a public witness at conversion. Lacking water baptism, the saved believer can still follow Jesus Christ by faith which is what discipleship as in running that race in moving unto perfection is really all about in helping us to follow Him daily as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

God has so joined the rite of baptism with repentance and faith and the work of salvation, that they're nearly indistinguishable.

God's salvation of Israel from the armies of Pharaoh at the Red Sea was their baptism.

1 Corinthians 10:2, And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. (Exodus 14)​

​

So, Peter's saying simply 'believe,' and 'believe and be baptized,' are the very same thing. There is no nuance.

But the act itself, even when administered by God Himself, does not mean the individual is saved in heart, as the idolatry at Sinai, and the destruction of the faithless in the Wilderness teaches us.

And not all who can't—not do not, but cannot—receive baptism are lost, as the thief on the cross teaches us.

But baptism and salvation are so closely connected that the distinction is merely clinical, as our own practice of not recognizing someone as a member of Christ who has not yet been baptized bears witness.

 

[ChristB4us]

Could we get a TL;DR version?

Feel free to explain what that version is. Thank you.

 

[abcaines]

Disclaimer: I believe Peter preached only one gospel but some may apply his words in Acts 2:38 to mean otherwise in spite of the same gospel Peter preached in Acts 10:43-48.

Let us examine the one gospel that this same Peter preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter preached that whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and as a result. those that heard the word, believed, and got born again of the Spirit. Note how they were saved before water baptism. Also note how they had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now to the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews of Acts 2:38, but in context of Acts 2:36-39.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now in context, Peter just informed the Jews that God had made that same Jesus, both Lord & Christ, Whom they had crucified "in unbelief". It is on this truth that they were pricked in their hearts, asking Peter, "What shall we do?" So when Peter said "Repent", it is in regards to them having crucified Jesus in unbelief and so to repent here is by believing in Jesus Christ for how they got that same remission of sins & the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

It is because Acts 2:38 has been taken out of context so much that errant teachings has come about like:

Error #1 You have to be water baptized to get that remission of sins.

There is only one gospel and this same Peter preached the same one gospel to both the Gentiles & the Jews.

Error #2 You cannot get the Holy Ghost without being water baptized first.

In that same gospel Peter had preached to the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Error #3 You have to repent from all sins before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ

In the same gospel preached to the Gentiles, Peter had not used the word "Repent" but to believe in Jesus Christ for the Gentile believers to receive the remission of sins.

Now saved, with Jesus Christ in us, we can look to the author & finisher of our faith daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Discipleship is separate from salvation because we need Him in us to look to Jesus Christ for help in following Him as that is how we are to run that race; by faith in Jesus Christ.

Sinners that walk away from that apostate altar call to repent from all sins before coming to Jesus Christ need to be informed that Jesus Christ also came to deliver them from their sins so they no longer have to live in them. Jesus Christ is more than just hope for eternal life in being saved from hell, but to help us live the abundant life with God, of sin not having dominion over our lives any more.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure...... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage..... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

If any one doubts what that gospel is all about, Paul preached the same gospel whereby he was offered the right hand of fellowship with James, Cephas ( Peter ) & John.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

So neither Peter nor Paul preached two different gospel but the same gospel of believing in Jesus Christ is how we are saved in receiving that remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Discipleship can begin with water baptism in His name after salvation, but it is to serve as a public witness at conversion. Lacking water baptism, the saved believer can still follow Jesus Christ by faith which is what discipleship as in running that race in moving unto perfection is really all about in helping us to follow Him daily as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

You start out with a bang, don't you?

 

[ChristB4us]

God has so joined the rite of baptism with repentance and faith and the work of salvation, that they're nearly indistinguishable.

God's salvation of Israel from the armies of Pharaoh at the Red Sea was their baptism.

1 Corinthians 10:2, And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. (Exodus 14)​

​

So, Peter's saying simply 'believe,' and 'believe and be baptized,' are the very same thing. There is no nuance.

But the act itself, even when administered by God Himself, does not mean the individual is saved in heart, as the idolatry at Sinai, and the destruction of the faithless in the Wilderness teaches us.

And not all who can't—not do not, but cannot—receive baptism are lost, as the thief on the cross teaches us.

But baptism and salvation are so closely connected that the distinction is merely clinical, as our own practice of not recognizing someone as a member of Christ who has not yet been baptized bears witness.

Please explain how the Gentiles had received the baptism with the Holy Ghost before water baptism if "water baptism" is truly indistinguishable.

It is belief in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is indistinguishable.

As for 1 Corinthians 10:2, it was written " And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea," is why one should reconsider as applying that as if towards water baptism.

Hence the baptism with the Holy Ghost upon believing the truth, the Lord Jesus Christ, at the calling of the gospel.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

For us to add water baptism on our part as a requirement for salvation, then we cannot say salvation was not done by our works of righteousness per verse 5 above.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

There are more scriptures to confirm that water baptism is not essential on our part to do in order to be saved. It is essential after salvation to bear a public witness of wishing to follow Jesus Christ as His disciples, but it is not necessary in order for God to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Ekklesian]

You seem to not have read a word of my post.

 

[ChristB4us]

You start out with a bang, don't you?

Only God can cause the increase. I can only hope He is, in this iron sharpening iron ministry of His as I hope to learn and grow in the knowledge of Him too.

And the best way to defend the faith which is the good fight, is to address the contentions that divides the body of Christ, even within the denominational Baptist churches.

Since scripture cannot go against scripture, and one has to align the truth in His words rightly so, especially when other scriptures testifies against certain added teachings to the gospel as if water baptism is essential or even that apostate calling of "repenting from all sins" when sinners know they had tried to stop sinning before and could not do it, because sin has dominion over their lives. Sinners need to know the truth that Jesus Christ came to save sinners from their sins, to turn them away from iniquities as their personal Good Shepherd to live that reconciled relationship with God.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

That is why in that gospel that Peter & Paul preach, it is repenting from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ is how one receives the remission of sins & the promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation so that with Jesus Christ in us, sin will no longer have dominion over our lives as He helps us to lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) and sin daily in walking in the light with the Father & the Son.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Ransom]

Feel free to explain what that version is. Thank you.

TL;DR stands for "too long; didn't read." It's an Internet way of saying that if you want to get engagement with your ideas, leading off with a 1600-word essay isn't the best way to go about it. Consider giving us an executive summary of a couple of paragraphs.

 

[ChristB4us]

You seem to not have read a word of my post.

Kind of a hard read, brother.

God has so joined the rite of baptism with repentance and faith and the work of salvation, that they're nearly indistinguishable.

The work of salvation? And "with repentance and faith"?

Yet by believing in Him is the repentance required. And so "with repentance and faith" as an added work of the believer by repenting "from all sins" to add with faith? Is that what you are saying?

God's salvation of Israel from the armies of Pharaoh at the Red Sea was their baptism.

1 Corinthians 10:2, And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. (Exodus 14)

And yet that verse also testify of the cloud "if" you were inferring water baptism.

So, Peter's saying simply 'believe,' and 'believe and be baptized,' are the very same thing. There is no nuance.

If you were meaning that believe and thus be baptized with the Holy Ghost as meaning the same thing, then I agree.

But the act itself, even when administered by God Himself, does not mean the individual is saved in heart, as the idolatry at Sinai, and the destruction of the faithless in the Wilderness teaches us.

So are you testifying that a professing believer is not saved yet even when administered by God? I believe even a former believer is still saved but at risk of being denied by Him if he continues to deny Him by the time the Bridegroom comes, BUT even though left behind, He still abides. That is why even former believers & not just Christians living in unrepentant sins should be called to go to Jesus Christ for help to discern the lies and the iniquities so they can lean on Him for help to depart from them so they too can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

So what happens when a believer does not depart from iniquity? Any iniquity on that foundation that denies Him, they will be denied ( Titus 1:16 KJV ) & be left behind to die ( but still saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV & Revelation 2:18-25 KJV ) for not being ready ( Luke 12:40-49 KJV ), but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 KJV & Revelation 6:9-11 KJV ) to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation ( Revelation 7:9-17 KJV & Revelation 20:1-6 KJV ).

And not all who can't—not do not, but cannot—receive baptism are lost, as the thief on the cross teaches us.

Since Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell per Luke 16:19-31 KJV for Jesus to meet that day with the thief Luke 23:42-43 KJV, for why Jesus descended Ephesians 4:8-10 KJV to preach to those in prison per 1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV, so that upon His resurrection, and His ascension, He took the captivity captive, Paradise, as it is now located in the third heavens per Paul's "indirect" testimony of the apostle John for when John had received His words for the Book of Revelation in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 KJV, I would say that after His resurrection and His ascension was when that thief and the Old Testament saints had received the promise of Him bringing us to God in Heaven and yet still awaiting for the inheritance of inhabiting that City of God Hebrews 11:8-16 KJV upon that firstfruits of the resurrection that is coming at the pre great tribulation rapture event for when God shall judge His House first as the Bridegroom to receive all those that by His grace & by His help, have suffered, ceasing from sin on a daily basis as He will do a good job in keeping our souls while we suffer in ceasing from sin.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

But baptism and salvation are so closely connected that the distinction is merely clinical, as our own practice of not recognizing someone as a member of Christ who has not yet been baptized bears witness.

I am not sure what you mean here unless you are referring to Acts 19:1-7 KJV where Paul had come across some people that he was certain they were some kind of disciples but did not know what kind. In Paul's days there are 3 kinds of disciples; the disciples of the Pharisees, the disciples of John the Baptist's and the disciples of Jesus Christ.

Luke 5:33 And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink? KJV

Paul assumed they were believers in Jesus Christ for why he had asked about them having received the Holy Ghost yet but they knew nothing about that. And so he inquired of what water baptism they were under: John the Baptist's. So they were disciples of John the Baptist's and so Paul went on to share that Jesus Christ was the One John the Baptist was preaching about and obviously then they believed because they got water baptized in Jesus's name and got saved.

Unless you are referring to something else, I can only guess as to what you were referring to by your comment in the last quote.

Thank you for participating in this thread, brother.

 

[ChristB4us]

TL;DR stands for "too long; didn't read." It's an Internet way of saying that if you want to get engagement with your ideas, leading off with a 1600-word essay isn't the best way to go about it. Consider giving us an executive summary of a couple of paragraphs.

Thank you for that clarification, brother.

Just figured out how to use the link button for scripture references that may help shorten posts, but God be willing, I shall try to post a shorter version of that post for the first reply. Thank you.

 

[ChristB4us]

Could we get a TL;DR version?

Let me know if this is not short enough for you.

Disclaimer: I believe Peter preached only one gospel but some may apply his words in Acts 2:38 to mean otherwise in spite of the same gospel Peter preached in Acts 10:43-48.

Let us examine the one gospel that this same Peter preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter preached that whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and as a result. those that heard the word, believed, and got born again of the Spirit. Note how they were saved before water baptism. Also note how they had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now to the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews of Acts 2:38, but in context of Acts 2:36-39.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now in context, Peter just informed the Jews that God had made that same Jesus, both Lord & Christ, Whom they had crucified "in unbelief". It is on this truth that they were pricked in their hearts, asking Peter, "What shall we do?" So when Peter said "Repent", it is in regards to them having crucified Jesus in unbelief and so to repent here is by believing in Jesus Christ for how they got that same remission of sins & the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

It is because Acts 2:38 has been taken out of context so much that errant teachings has come about like:

Error #1 You have to be water baptized to get that remission of sins.

There is only one gospel and this same Peter preached the same one gospel to both the Gentiles & the Jews.

Error #2 You cannot get the Holy Ghost without being water baptized first.

In that same gospel Peter had preached to the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Error #3 You have to repent from all sins before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ

In the same gospel preached to the Gentiles, Peter had not used the word "Repent" but to believe in Jesus Christ for the Gentile believers to receive the remission of sins.

Now saved, with Jesus Christ in us, we can look to the author & finisher of our faith daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Discipleship is separate from salvation because we need Him in us to look to Jesus Christ for help in following Him as that is how we are to run that race; by faith in Jesus Christ.

Sinners that walk away from that apostate altar call to repent from all sins before coming to Jesus Christ need to be informed that Jesus Christ also came to deliver them from their sins so they no longer have to live in them. Jesus Christ is more than just hope for eternal life in being saved from hell, but to help us live the abundant life with God, of sin not having dominion over our lives any more.

 

[abcaines]

Umm... okay... these posts are as verbose as a Tony Alamo tract... from what I have seen, much better theology, which is good...

So, CB4, could you do us the privilege of telling us a little about yourself... maybe what region of the country you are from, any schooling; you seem to have some writing skills; life experiences/testimony. Suggest keeping it to a 3-5 minute read as many here are not looking for lengthy dissertations or doctrinal thesis...

 

[ChristB4us]

Umm... okay... these posts are as verbose as a Tony Alamo tract... from what I have seen, much better theology, which is good...

So, CB4, could you do us the privilege of telling us a little about yourself... maybe what region of the country you are from, any schooling; you seem to have some writing skills; life experiences/testimony. Suggest keeping it to a 3-5 minute read as many here are not looking for lengthy dissertations or doctrinal thesis...

I believe if you look at my Avatar, it will give my location as Hermitage, PA. Not sure if there is anyway for you or I to confirm that or not since it is the internet. As for a testimony, it may seem like a dissertation but I am testifying to what Jesus Christ has done for me.

I have been a believer in Jesus Christ since I was a tot, and have been led astray by a religious calling to make Jesus Christ Lord of my life as if believing in Him was not enough. From that point on, I had been looking to myself in doing the best I can in making Jesus Lord of my life and failing miserably until one day He had set me free from all man made yokes of bondages to rest in Him that because of His New Covenant to me, all He asks from me is to believe Him to make Himself Lord of my life as He is my Good Shepherd & Friend to help me to follow Him by faith alone.

So I no longer speak of that commitment or any promises to God because that speaks of me and it goes to my glory for keeping it which is a false witness and so now I testify of Him by my faith in Him to finish His work in me which is to His glory as the crowns I receive are His crowning achievements in me as no flesh shall glory in His Presence but all shall glory in the Lord.

He has helped me not to serve anything else in His name in seeking the glory of; not the Promise Keepers' movement; not the holy laughter movement, nor anything else in His name but to preach Jesus Christ & Him crucified as the only way I can be a disciple of Jesus Christ by testifying of Him in seeking His glory and by Him, the glory of God the Father as led by the Spirit in us to do.

He has been my help of what the church failed to do for me in discipling me in turning me away from iniquities of the infirmity in the flesh, the world through media & comic books, man made religious bondages that deny Jesus Christ as the power of living that reconciled relationship with God through; as well as keeping me from falling in serving other "gods" as they are dark forces that have invaded the churches by placing the emphasis on receiving the Holy Spirit by a sensational sign in the flesh, be it tongues at their "salvation moment" which Matthew 12:38-40 KJV says not the gospel for why there is confusion which God is not the author of, be it slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, or the holy laughter movement, in receiving again and again and again.

I have learned that the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us ( 1 Corinthians 15:26-27 KJV and that Jesus is really the only way to come to God the Father by ( John 14:6 KJV ) if we wish to avoid the iniquity of approaching God the Father by another way like the broad way of the "Trinity" or by another way of the Holy Spirit ( John 10:1,7 KJV ) because it is by only honoring the Son is how we honor God the Father by ( John 5:22-23 KJV ) as that is what Paul was writing about to the Philippians in "obeying" in his absence in having that singular mind of Christ in worship Philippians 2:5-13 KJV The real indwelling holy Spirit keeps our focus on the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ, whereas the spirits of the "antichrist" as "instead of Christ" would do the opposite in seducing believers with their visitations of signs and lying wonders in chasing after them to receive by a sensational sign in the flesh, thus moving away from resting in Jesus Christ.

Those that err also apply Ephesians 5:18 KJV wrong as if we are to continue to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit when it is just a call to remain sober as in "be filled" past tense "with the Holy Ghost" as oppose to getting drunk with wine wherein there is excess. We are not a leaky vessel that requires a constant filling Matthew 9:17 KJV for why we shall never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after salvation ( John 6:35 KJV ). This is the iniquity as found in the parable of the ten virgins for why the 5 that were foolish are found out at the market still seeking to be filled with oil in Matthew 25:1-13 KJV Do note that the ten were identified as of that kingdom of Heaven for why the foolish are still saved, but missed out on the Marriage Supper with the Bridegroom unless they repent.

I believe that is why the "holy laughter" movement went across the denominational divide in 1997 as no longer just a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, but was happening in Catholics AND Protestant churches across the USA. I do not know of any Baptist church experiencing this but some do preach that apostate calling from Azusa Street Revival where they preach a gospel of tongues where the emphasis was on receiving the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues thus committing spiritual adultery as Jesus said in Matthew 12:38-40 KJV . Believe it or not, some Baptist church look for that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues and that is why that tongue never comes with interpretation because it is not the real God's gift of tongues but gibberish nonsense as found in the occult Isaiah 8:19 KJV and why Jesus is warning that church to repent of her spiritual fornication or else be left behind per Revelation 2:18-25 KJV

Right now, the Asbury Revival and the Jesus Movement movie is pushing that emphasis on the Holy Spirit for why even Grace Alliance Church in Grove City, PA had a guest speaker preaching a phenomenon of healing by Jesus coming to them in having "an encounter with Jesus" and to "experience the tenderness of Jesus" so that sinners d not even have to come to Jesus to believe in Him for why he applied that account of Jesus with the Samaritan woman at the well towards, while the pastor added by saying, "Those who have a hunger for more of God" and " Let the Spirit fill you.... " is just one of the many apostate callings that is sweeping the churches today in one form or another. Matthew 24:23-26 KJV

As you can see, I needed & still do need Jesus Christ to keep me from falling in any apostate movement as well as falling into other sin, & to keep me choosing Him as my help in turning me away from iniquities daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. That is my hope in Jesus Christ in being my Good Shepherd & Friend to help me to follow Him daily as I trust Him to present me faultless to His glory at the pre great tribulation rapture event for when He comes as the Bridegroom to judge His House first.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I

I believe if you look at my Avatar, it will give my location as Hermitage, PA. Not sure if there is anyway for you or I to confirm that or not since it is the internet. As for a testimony, it may seem like a dissertation but I am testifying to what Jesus Christ has done for me.

I have been a believer in Jesus Christ since I was a tot, and have been led astray by a religious calling to make Jesus Christ Lord of my life as if believing in Him was not enough. From that point on, I had been looking to myself in doing the best I can in making Jesus Lord of my life and failing miserably until one day He had set me free from all man made yokes of bondages to rest in Him that because of His New Covenant to me, all He asks from me is to believe Him to make Himself Lord of my life as He is my Good Shepherd & Friend to help me to follow Him by faith alone.

So I no longer speak of that commitment or any promises to God because that speaks of me and it goes to my glory for keeping it which is a false witness and so now I testify of Him by my faith in Him to finish His work in me which is to His glory as the crowns I receive are His crowning achievements in me as no flesh shall glory in His Presence but all shall glory in the Lord.

He has helped me not to serve anything else in His name in seeking the glory of; not the Promise Keepers' movement; not the holy laughter movement, nor anything else in His name but to preach Jesus Christ & Him crucified as the only way I can be a disciple of Jesus Christ by testifying of Him in seeking His glory and by Him, the glory of God the Father as led by the Spirit in us to do.

He has been my help of what the church failed to do for me in discipling me in turning me away from iniquities of the infirmity in the flesh, the world through media & comic books, man made religious bondages that deny Jesus Christ as the power of living that reconciled relationship with God through; as well as keeping me from falling in serving other "gods" as they are dark forces that have invaded the churches by placing the emphasis on receiving the Holy Spirit by a sensational sign in the flesh, be it tongues at their "salvation moment" which Matthew 12:38-40 KJV says not the gospel for why there is confusion which God is not the author of, be it slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, or the holy laughter movement, in receiving again and again and again.

I have learned that the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us ( 1 Corinthians 15:26-27 KJV and that Jesus is really the only way to come to God the Father by ( John 14:6 KJV ) if we wish to avoid the iniquity of approaching God the Father by another way like the broad way of the "Trinity" or by another way of the Holy Spirit ( John 10:1,7 KJV ) because it is by only honoring the Son is how we honor God the Father by ( John 5:22-23 KJV ) as that is what Paul was writing about to the Philippians in "obeying" in his absence in having that singular mind of Christ in worship Philippians 2:5-13 KJV The real indwelling holy Spirit keeps our focus on the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ, whereas the spirits of the "antichrist" as "instead of Christ" would do the opposite in seducing believers with their visitations of signs and lying wonders in chasing after them to receive by a sensational sign in the flesh, thus moving away from resting in Jesus Christ.

Those that err also apply Ephesians 5:18 KJV wrong as if we are to continue to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit when it is just a call to remain sober as in "be filled" past tense "with the Holy Ghost" as oppose to getting drunk with wine wherein there is excess. We are not a leaky vessel that requires a constant filling Matthew 9:17 KJV for why we shall never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after salvation ( John 6:35 KJV ). This is the iniquity as found in the parable of the ten virgins for why the 5 that were foolish are found out at the market still seeking to be filled with oil in Matthew 25:1-13 KJV Do note that the ten were identified as of that kingdom of Heaven for why the foolish are still saved, but missed out on the Marriage Supper with the Bridegroom unless they repent.

I believe that is why the "holy laughter" movement went across the denominational divide in 1997 as no longer just a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, but was happening in Catholics AND Protestant churches across the USA. I do not know of any Baptist church experiencing this but some do preach that apostate calling from Azusa Street Revival where they preach a gospel of tongues where the emphasis was on receiving the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues thus committing spiritual adultery as Jesus said in Matthew 12:38-40 KJV . Believe it or not, some Baptist church look for that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues and that is why that tongue never comes with interpretation because it is not the real God's gift of tongues but gibberish nonsense as found in the occult Isaiah 8:19 KJV and why Jesus is warning that church to repent of her spiritual fornication or else be left behind per Revelation 2:18-25 KJV

Right now, the Asbury Revival and the Jesus Movement movie is pushing that emphasis on the Holy Spirit for why even Grace Alliance Church in Grove City, PA had a guest speaker preaching a phenomenon of healing by Jesus coming to them in having "an encounter with Jesus" and to "experience the tenderness of Jesus" so that sinners d not even have to come to Jesus to believe in Him for why he applied that account of Jesus with the Samaritan woman at the well towards, while the pastor added by saying, "Those who have a hunger for more of God" and " Let the Spirit fill you.... " is just one of the many apostate callings that is sweeping the churches today in one form or another. Matthew 24:23-26 KJV

As you can see, I needed & still do need Jesus Christ to keep me from falling in any apostate movement as well as falling into other sin, & to keep me choosing Him as my help in turning me away from iniquities daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. That is my hope in Jesus Christ in being my Good Shepherd & Friend to help me to follow Him daily as I trust Him to present me faultless to His glory at the pre great tribulation rapture event for when He comes as the Bridegroom to judge His House first.

I don’t mean any disrespect, but I have a difficult time following your writing style. Shorter sentences and paragraphs would be beneficial. Regardless, welcome aboard and look forward to learning from you.

 

[ChristB4us]

I

I don’t mean any disrespect, but I have a difficult time following your writing style. Shorter sentences and paragraphs would be beneficial. Regardless, welcome aboard and look forward to learning from you.

Writing long sentences is a fault of mine, something I had picked up in high school as a challenge by my English teachers to write long sentences, but I am not discouraged since it is on God to cause the increase. I agree that I need to apply my faith in Him to help me post shorter sentences and posts.

Thank you for the welcome as I too hope to learn from others here in His words as I also hope in the Lord to cause the increase in this iron sharpen iron ministry of His for me to bear more fruit.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Writing long sentences is a fault of mine, something I had picked up in high school as a challenge by my English teachers to write long sentences

Interestingly enough, I recall my English teachers doing the exact opposite: encouraging me to write shorter sentences with more paragraphs. Maybe it’s a case of different generations of teaching methods. It did, however, come in handy for me when, for a short period of time after my bachelor’s degree, I worked part time as a stringer for my local newspaper. (I quickly realized that it was a dying profession even back then and switched gears in a different direction.)

 

[ALAYMAN]

ChristB4us, you said…

He has been my help of what the church failed to do for me in discipling me in turning me away from iniquities of the infirmity in the flesh,

Are you saying that you don’t think there’s any purpose today for church?

And welcome to the forum

 

[ChristB4us]

ChristB4us, you said…

Are you saying that you don’t think there’s any purpose today for church?

And welcome to the forum

Thank you for the welcome.

There are several problems with the churches today.

A Biblical Presbytery is supposed to be in that city where the assemblies are at. The Presbytery today are akin to the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes ( conquest of the laity ) whereby no one let alone a church, can vote or remove anyone in that Presbytery that is going outside the Word of God in establishing ordinances. Nobody knows the people that are running it nor how they got that position in that distant Presbytery. They could be taken over by undercover Jesuits for all we know, especially when they start making compromises with social cultures of the day.

I remember how my former Covenant Presbyterian Church made a case to join a Presbytery to avoid the church building being sold out from under "us" as if that can prevent such a thing from happening, thus the Presbytery owns the church building and by it, the pastor has to submit to what the Presbytery says. That is one legal red tape that just conquered the laity.

Then you have all the red tapes in place within that laity when addressing an apostasy, a false teaching, or a long established church practice not really taught as such from the Bible like you have to be a member of the church, then you have to be an elder or a deacon to speak or bring a matter to the congregational meeting as if that gives you more of a chance for the issue to be brought forth, then you have to have it approved before you can bring it to the attention of the congregational meeting for designating a time to discuss it on the agenda, and I cannot remember them all and it may be poor recollection on my part, but it sure seems like the red tapes are there to squeeze out "trouble-makers".

At one time, the church was going to address members that are Freemasons until they found out how many were Freemasons. Then it was dropped & swept under the rug.

The point of the Presbytery is to submit the assemblies in that city to the Word of God, but being distant like that, how can anyone make the Presbytery submissive to the Word of God?

There really should be no red tape to prevent any one, even a non-member Christian to bring an issue to the church's floor when it is about submitting to the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

When the Promise Keepers' movement swept the valley, by His grace & By His help, I tried to warn all the denominational churches by letters, but to no avail. I reckon it is because they fail to see the apostate calling Billy Graham had given out after preaching the gospel "all those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved " which is by giving this kind of altar call "If you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ". Why did he not say, "If you are not sure you are saved, if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, believe you are saved!" ???

So it is no wonder why many believers walk away because of that commitment to follow Christ for by it, is the knowledge of sin as they see that their spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. They doubt their own sincerity in following Jesus and sees Christianity as too hard when they are supposed to follow Him by faith, relying on Him all the time as their Good Shepherd & Friend to help them to follow Him for why it is written, the just shall live by faith. By the grace of God we are saved by believing in Him as our Saviour, and so by the grace of God, we follow Him by believing in Him to be our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to do that since the power of living the Christian life is of God and not by looking to us doing the best we can in keeping that commitment.

Let's say that there are more iniquities & foundations for iniquities to occur that members are just following the crowd more than discerning & proving all things with Jesus Christ by His words.

It is not safe to go to church if one goes expecting the church to be their good shepherd rather than Jesus Christ to be their own personal Good Shepherd in proving all things in following Him.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Disclaimer: I believe Peter preached only one gospel but some may apply his words in Acts 2:38 to mean otherwise in spite of the same gospel Peter preached in Acts 10:43-48.

Let us examine the one gospel that this same Peter preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter preached that whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and as a result. those that heard the word, believed, and got born again of the Spirit. Note how they were saved before water baptism. Also note how they had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now to the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews of Acts 2:38, but in context of Acts 2:36-39.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now in context, Peter just informed the Jews that God had made that same Jesus, both Lord & Christ, Whom they had crucified "in unbelief". It is on this truth that they were pricked in their hearts, asking Peter, "What shall we do?" So when Peter said "Repent", it is in regards to them having crucified Jesus in unbelief and so to repent here is by believing in Jesus Christ for how they got that same remission of sins & the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

It is because Acts 2:38 has been taken out of context so much that errant teachings has come about like:

Error #1 You have to be water baptized to get that remission of sins.

There is only one gospel and this same Peter preached the same one gospel to both the Gentiles & the Jews.

Error #2 You cannot get the Holy Ghost without being water baptized first.

In that same gospel Peter had preached to the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Error #3 You have to repent from all sins before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ

In the same gospel preached to the Gentiles, Peter had not used the word "Repent" but to believe in Jesus Christ for the Gentile believers to receive the remission of sins.

Now saved, with Jesus Christ in us, we can look to the author & finisher of our faith daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Discipleship is separate from salvation because we need Him in us to look to Jesus Christ for help in following Him as that is how we are to run that race; by faith in Jesus Christ.

Sinners that walk away from that apostate altar call to repent from all sins before coming to Jesus Christ need to be informed that Jesus Christ also came to deliver them from their sins so they no longer have to live in them. Jesus Christ is more than just hope for eternal life in being saved from hell, but to help us live the abundant life with God, of sin not having dominion over our lives any more.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure...... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage..... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

If any one doubts what that gospel is all about, Paul preached the same gospel whereby he was offered the right hand of fellowship with James, Cephas ( Peter ) & John.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

So neither Peter nor Paul preached two different gospel but the same gospel of believing in Jesus Christ is how we are saved in receiving that remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Discipleship can begin with water baptism in His name after salvation, but it is to serve as a public witness at conversion. Lacking water baptism, the saved believer can still follow Jesus Christ by faith which is what discipleship as in running that race in moving unto perfection is really all about in helping us to follow Him daily as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

No, He did not.

QED