Do people die during the Tribulation or 1,000 years?

voicecrying

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Does part of the pre-trib rapture doctrine teach that no one dies during the 7-year Tribulation and 1,000 years following?
 

Tarheel Baptist

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Does part of the pre-trib rapture doctrine teach that no one dies during the 7-year Tribulation and 1,000 years following?
In my experience, most premillennialists believe people will die during both.
 

voicecrying

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In my experience, most premillennialists believe people will die during both.
That is what I thought. I don't see how 1 Corinthians 15:54 fits in though. This is part of a passage frequently used as support of the pre-trib rapture, but it says the saying "Death is swallowed up in victory" comes to pass at that time. It seems if death is defeated, death will no longer happen.
 

treasure_unseen

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That is what I thought. I don't see how 1 Corinthians 15:54 fits in though. This is part of a passage frequently used as support of the pre-trib rapture, but it says the saying "Death is swallowed up in victory" comes to pass at that time. It seems if death is defeated, death will no longer happen.
Good logic doesn't always work on premillennialists . :)
 

FSSL

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Death is swallowed up in victory because of Christ’s victory.

It has nothing to do with escaping physical death
 

treasure_unseen

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Death is swallowed up in victory because of Christ’s victory.

It has nothing to do with escaping physical death
Your explanation doesn't fit the what the passage states. You know that the word "then" is used in the passage. Which what voicecrying referenced specifically.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

The head fake isn't working.

IF what a premillenialist teaches is true, then it would logically dictate that physical death would literally..... be swallowed up in victory. Thus, there would then, literally, be no more physical death. Yet, premillenialism mentions extensive literal, physical death after the events referenced in 1 Cor 15:54.

By the way, Paul is quoting Isa 25:8. Which is very specific and explicitly mentions removing death from the earth.

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the LORD has spoken.
 

Twisted

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1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, [ Dead believers in Christ, who are raised first] and this mortal shall have put on immortality, [living believers in Christ who shall not see death, but shall be changed] then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [Death i does not occur for those taken who are alive] - Well, AMEN!! GLORY TO GOD!!

Ya'll that don't believe that can go sit around the table with the Steve Anderson crowd at Denny's while waiting for the mid-Trib whatever he calls it "rapture". Have a good time.
 

treasure_unseen

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1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, [ Dead believers in Christ, who are raised first] and this mortal shall have put on immortality, [living believers in Christ who shall not see death, but shall be changed] then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [Death i does not occur for those taken who are alive] - Well, AMEN!! GLORY TO GOD!!

Ya'll that don't believe that can go sit around the table with the Steve Anderson crowd at Denny's while waiting for the mid-Trib whatever he calls it "rapture". Have a good time.
That was funny..... :)

But the verses clearly teach that death will be taken from the earth at that very moment.
 

voicecrying

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1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, [ Dead believers in Christ, who are raised first] and this mortal shall have put on immortality, [living believers in Christ who shall not see death, but shall be changed] then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [Death i does not occur for those taken who are alive] - Well, AMEN!! GLORY TO GOD!!

Ya'll that don't believe that can go sit around the table with the Steve Anderson crowd at Denny's while waiting for the mid-Trib whatever he calls it "rapture". Have a good time.
It says "When... and... then...". So both parts before and after the "and" are relevant to the "then". The 1st part would not need to be mentioned in the same sentence if the "then" only applies to the 2nd part.
 

treasure_unseen

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It says "When... and... then...". So both parts before and after the "and" are relevant to the "then". The 1st part would not need to be mentioned in the same sentence if the "then" only applies to the 2nd part.

I think I got that..... :)

I'm convinced that dispensationalism tells you that certain things only happen at certain times..... and then completely abandons what they've said as if they've never taught it.

You know... like the fact they apostasy is all around them because... "Jesus can come any moment"..... and then pretend they're living among the largest group of people that support their theology that has ever existed!

You would "think"...... they'd at least admit such things don't make sense to rational people.

You can't say that death will literally be swallowed up in victory multiple times. It just doesn't work.
 

Twisted

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It says "When... and... then...". So both parts before and after the "and" are relevant to the "then". The 1st part would not need to be mentioned in the same sentence if the "then" only applies to the 2nd part.
You tell that to all the folks in Glory right now that death wasn't swallowed up in victory.

So a new doctrine here on the FFF. After the rapture, no one dies. Tim LaHaye's gonna have to rewrite all those books. John's gonna have to rewrite Revelation.
 

voicecrying

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You tell that to all the folks in Glory right now that death wasn't swallowed up in victory.

So a new doctrine here on the FFF. After the rapture, no one dies. Tim LaHaye's gonna have to rewrite all those books. John's gonna have to rewrite Revelation.
Not saying no one dies after the rapture. I'm challenging the rapture doctrine.
 

treasure_unseen

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You tell that to all the folks in Glory right now that death wasn't swallowed up in victory.
They're not complete. They left part themselves behind in death. I think you realize that.

Death still exists.... "swallowed up whole"... no. I wish it were. It has been defeated and we have an unchanging promise but it certainly isn't "swallowed up" from the earth. Which is one of the reasons that full preterism is wrong.

So a new doctrine here on the FFF. After the rapture, no one dies. Tim LaHaye's gonna have to rewrite all those books. John's gonna have to rewrite Revelation.
No. It points to a logic fallacy within "rapture" teaching.

Those who teach the doctrine of the Resurrection properly, know that the last enemy will be swallowed up in victory is the physical death of this flesh that came from this earth.
 

FSSL

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You tell that to all the folks in Glory right now that death wasn't swallowed up in victory.
If physical death is in view here, then why just the “folks in Glory?”

Death for unbelievers is not swallowed up in victory.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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Oh. Phhh.. no one cares about your "challenge". Have a nice day.
I would venture there is as much if not more interest in her ‘challenge’ as anything you or I have posted.
But as to the challenge of the Rapture, you should probably report her to Saluder McDoughboy.
 

Edwards

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Does part of the pre-trib rapture doctrine teach that no one dies during the 7-year Tribulation and 1,000 years following?
I am no expert in Bible prophecy (I'm not sure they exist) but one verse that has always puzzled me is Isaiah 65:20, which says:
"No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed." This verse speaks of death. The opening verse of this passage (v. 17) tells us, “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind." This, of course is speaking of a time after human history (Revelation 21:1). Obviously there is no death in heaven (or the new earth) yet this verse speaks of death. Some have said it refers to the millennium. Personally, I don't know. I have looked in a multitude of commentaries and no reformed commentator explains it. The only explanation I have ever found is that it refers to the 1,000 year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Again, I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

treasure_unseen

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I am no expert in Bible prophecy (I'm not sure they exist) but one verse that has always puzzled me is Isaiah 65:20, which says:
"No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed." This verse speaks of death. The opening verse of this passage (v. 17) tells us, “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind." This, of course is speaking of a time after human history (Revelation 21:1). Obviously there is no death in heaven (or the new earth) yet this verse speaks of death. Some have said it refers to the millennium. Personally, I don't know. I have looked in a multitude of commentaries and no reformed commentator explains it. The only explanation I have ever found is that it refers to the 1,000 year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Again, I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
The LXX reads like

and there shall not be there one who dies untimely, or an old person who will not fulfill his time, for the young person will be a hundred but the one who dies a sinner will be a hundred and accursed.

You're right about the Reformed position. They often have difficulty turning such verses into into allegory or allusion. However, Gill does a rather good job at depicting the last days of man upon the earth. He references the beginning of the Gospel in verse 17 and following.

What is pictured is what we now see before our eyes. An increase in the ages of human beings similar to what was seen before the flood. Technological advances and etc limiting the suffering of men... Yet still dying at 100 the sinner is accursed.
 

Jrock

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I'm premillennial but post trib on the rapture. I don't believe saints will die during the 1,000 years.
 
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