God gave them up to a reprobate mind

ALAYMAN

ALAYMAN

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Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

What is the nature and extent of "God gave them up" in the above passage?

A more refined aspect of the question....does God ever give up on lost sinners? (not really looking for igniting a Cal-Arm debate here either).
 
ALAYMAN said:
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

What is the nature and extent of "God gave them up" in the above passage?

A more refined aspect of the question....does God ever give up on lost sinners? (not really looking for igniting a Cal-Arm debate here either).
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To my IFBx in-laws, giving them up to a reprobate mind means they can't get saved. I'm not so sure of this because I know people who say they were in that state but are now believers (as 1 Cor 6 indicates that "such were some of you"). I guess it's up for debate if the homosexuality in Romans1 is different than the homosexuality in 1 Cor 6.
 
voicecrying said:
To my IFBx in-laws, giving them up to a reprobate mind means they can't get saved. I'm not so sure of this because I know people who say they were in that state but are now believers (as 1 Cor 6 indicates that "such were some of you"). I guess it's up for debate if the homosexuality in Romans1 is different than the homosexuality in 1 Cor 6.
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Since we can't supply more than one emoji on the thread emoji bar (or whatever that thang is called) I gave you a thumbs up there, but this deserves a witty "laughing so hard tears are flowing" 🤣 emoji too!

Seriously, that is a very very keen Biblical usage of those two passages to point out the absurdity of the "queer, you can't get saved" dung.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Since we can't supply more than one emoji on the thread emoji bar (or whatever that thang is called) I gave you a thumbs up there, but this deserves a witty "laughing so hard tears are flowing" 🤣 emoji too!

Seriously, that is a very very keen Biblical usage of those two passages to point out the absurdity of the "queer, you can't get saved" dung.
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This past summer, I don't recall the exact conversation, but my mother-in-law used the term "reprobates" to refer to all homosexuals, and I did bring up 1 Cor 6. She backpedaled and said she didn't mean that homosexuals couldn't get saved, even though when she used "reprobates" it was in the context of them being unable to be saved.
 
voicecrying said:
This past summer, I don't recall the exact conversation, but my mother-in-law used the term "reprobates" to refer to all homosexuals, and I did bring up 1 Cor 6. She backpedaled and said she didn't mean that homosexuals couldn't get saved, even though when she used "reprobates" it was in the context of them being unable to be saved.
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Here's something I recently read about our (American Evangelical) propensity to seize upon that facet of the text and miss the forest for the trees...

The sins described by Paul in this spiral of sin begin with sexual immorality, move to homosexuality, and, lest one is tempted to look down upon the sexually immoral, the final paragraph is a list of sins in which all people may see themselves. I do not believe Paul’s primary point is to create a hierarchy of sins. This spiral demonstrates how one increasingly turns his/her attention to self. The sexual immorality of verse 24 may very well describe the ritual practices of pagan worship. In verses 26-27, natural desire for the opposite gender is replaced by homoerotic behavior. Whether or not this describes pagan temple practices is irrelevant. The point is, individuals began expressing affection for that which was most like themselves. When self sits in the place of centrality of one’s affections, an individual seeks out that which most resembles him/herself. The homosexual practices of these verses indicate the radical self-centeredness of mankind apart from God. The final paragraph communicates the fullness of the self in all things. Every decision, every relationship is driven by self-motive without regard for the well-being of others.
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I think what you described from your m-i-l is typical of allowing contempt for one kind of sin and a disregard for others that are "more respectable sins" (that's a really good book on that very subject).
 
I believe that, as with any sin or sinful action, God gives the sinner ample time and opportunity as he sees fit to come to him, or to at least follow and do what is right. A case in point is the Pharaoh of Egypt when Moses appeared before him....There were so many times that Moses went before this ruler with a demand from the Lord, "Let my people go!" Of course, we all know that he didn't, and the Bible says in several instances that God was the one who hardened Pharaoh's heart. I believe he acts the same with mankind but deals with them individually. I believe all are able to come to the knowledge of Christ as Lord and Savior. But, I also believe that after a certain amount of trying, the Lord will give up on a person. Of course, we know that he already knows who and who won't accept him. If he didn't he wouldn't be God. But, I believe the Bible when it says he's willing that all will come to repentance. I also believe the Bible says that his spirit will not always strive with mankind. He won't continue to give people opportunities when they have reached his point of no return. Now, before some of you say that God never gives up, I'd like to remind you of all of the times in the years the Jews traveled through the desert, the Lord reached his boiling point and the earth swallowed people up. God judged, and rightly so. What he does is ALWAYS right. He's a righteous God. Guess I've rambled on enough...
 
"And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man....................."

just saying
 
Keeping it brief, I think it is quite similar to dire urgent warnings of God to not allow one's heart to become calloused and presumptuous towards sin and death, But ultimately I don't believe God "gives up" on anybody, but rather there are some people that give up on God.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Keeping it brief, I think it is quite similar to dire urgent warnings of God to not allow one's heart to become calloused and presumptuous towards sin and death, But ultimately I don't believe God "gives up" on anybody, but rather there are some people that give up on God.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Granted...Good verse...but explain God not always striving with man...his choice to finally end the man's life who had enough good laid up for many years, his soul being required that night....the Pharaoh and God HARDENING his heart. If God is the one doing the hardening, I would believe that person had crossed the line.
 
AverageJoe said:
Granted...Good verse...but explain God not always striving with man...his choice to finally end the man's life who had enough good laid up for many years, his soul being required that night....the Pharaoh and God HARDENING his heart. If God is the one doing the hardening, I would believe that person had crossed the line.
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I liken it to the paradox of sovereignty and free will, which you also alluded to. I would point to other passages like Hezekiah, who had a certain pronouncement upon his length of life but had a condition attached to that pronouncement. God knew all along what Hezekiah would do, He didn't have to change his mind, but Hezekiah certainly did. If a person is willing to repent and turn in faith there's hope for them.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I liken it to the paradox of sovereignty and free will, which you also alluded to. I would point to other passages like Hezekiah, who had a certain pronouncement upon his length of life but had a condition attached to that pronouncement. God knew all along what Hezekiah would do, He didn't have to change his mind, but Hezekiah certainly did. If a person is willing to repent and turn in faith there's hope for them.
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Good, sound answer! :) Yet, with God's omniscience, and our finite minds, we'll never know if he extends a person's days to repent. Being longsuffering doesn't mean that he'll wait indefinitely. In the pharaoh's case, he finally did as God wanted, but did God extend his opportunity to come to him? Though he did what God wanted, he didn't come to God and follow his ways.
 
ALAYMAN said:
What is the nature and extent of "God gave them up" in the above passage?

A more refined aspect of the question....does God ever give up on lost sinners? (not really looking for igniting a Cal-Arm debate here either).
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"God gave them up" and "God gave up on them" aren't synonymous.

The former has more the sense of "God turned them over": saying, as it were, "Fine, if that sin is the one you want to be chained to, have at it, and see how it turns out for you."
 
After studying this passage a little bit more than I already had the one thing that stunned me a little bit was that the commentators were almost unanimous in their opinion that the degradation depicted in Paul's writing is not written as a warning that God is going to judge such a nation who starts down that path, but rather that a nation who was practicing this kind of wide scale debauchery was already showing God's hand of judgment upon them by way of indulging in this kind of willful flaunting behavior.
 
You hit the nail on the head Al. When you see people marching down a street with signs saying "thank God I'm gay".....That IS God's judgement taking place
 
Bob H said:
You hit the nail on the head Al. When you see people marching down a street with signs saying "thank God I'm gay".....That IS God's judgement taking place
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The scriptures bear that observational fact out...

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
the overall message from paul to the christians at rome in romans 1 is the just shall live by faith...... but romans 1 itself cannot be fully understood without also understanding what paul wrote in chapter 2....... ..those 2 chapters in romans are not simply about how those given over to sexual perversion had been given over to their specific sins... but how all people... even the christians in rome.. were in danger of being given up to their own sins... if they did not cease to live by pride in their works.... (or pride in their lesser sins as the case may be).... and began to live by faith in God....... ..

but people won;t see that unless they read the whole section of that letter from paul to the church in rome.. and consider it all together as one lesson..... . not a bunch of smaller cherry picked ones a few verses at a time..... the condemnation against sins in those chapters is not merely against the sins of the homosexuals but against all sin of all people.. both saved and lost alike.. who lived by pride and not by faith.. ....

 
aleshanee said:
the overall message from paul to the christians at rome in romans 1 is the just shall live by faith...... but romans 1 itself cannot be fully understood without also understanding what paul wrote in chapter 2....... ..those 2 chapters in romans are not simply about how those given over to sexual perversion had been given over to their specific sins... but how all people... even the christians in rome.. were in danger of being given up to their own sins... if they did not cease to live by pride in their works.... (or pride in their lesser sins as the case may be).... and began to live by faith in God....... ..

but people won;t see that unless they read the whole section of that letter from paul to the church in rome.. and consider it all together as one lesson..... . not a bunch of smaller cherry picked ones a few verses at a time..... the condemnation against sins in those chapters is not merely against the sins of the homosexuals but against all sin of all people.. both saved and lost alike.. who lived by pride and not by faith.. ....
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Excellent thoughts.... I may come back to this in a bit, and hope others chime in as well.
 
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