Has BJU Left Separatist Fundamentalism Under Steve Pettit?

[illinoisguy]

Fundamentalist church historian David Beale has published a new book in which he says that Bob Jones University has left separatist fundamentalism:

"After being the premier Fundamentalist academic institution for eighty-seven years, BJU elected Dr. Steve Pettit in 2014, as the president who steered the University out of separatist Fundamentalism into the inclusive, broad Evangelical movement" - From "Christian Fundamentalism in America," p. 179. See this link:

College, Consistency, Context, and the Condition of the Human Heart – Proclaim & Defend (proclaimanddefend.org)

David Beale was a professor at BJU for 35 years and retired in 2012. He wrote such books as "In Pursuit of Purity" and "SBC- House on the Sand?" Here is a comment on Beale's statement from Kevin Schaal (BJU graduate) on the Proclaim and Defend web site of the Foundations Baptist Fellowship International web site (or Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International, they use both names):

"I hear more concerns, especially from parents, about the cultural shifts taking place on Christian college campuses–and more than just one college. I am not trying to single out a particular school here. These concerns are pervasive. It is heartbreaking to send a young person away to college for four years only to see them encouraged (in the dorm, in their new church, and sometimes in the classroom) to abandon their fundamentalist sensibilities once they graduate. This is one reason why many fundamentalist pastors are now encouraging college students to stay home, remain faithful to their local church, and attend a local college. They are having a higher success rate in retaining those young people, not only in their local churches but also in faithfulness to their theological roots. It is not necessarily a good thing, it is just the present reality."

 

[Ransom]

It is heartbreaking to send a young person away to college for four years only to see them encouraged (in the dorm, in their new church, and sometimes in the classroom) to abandon their fundamentalist sensibilities once they graduate. This is one reason why many fundamentalist pastors are now encouraging college students to stay home, remain faithful to their local church, and attend a local college.

Maybe these fundamentalist pastors should do their job and equip young people with what they need to remain faithful when they strike out on their own.

If you're raising delicate hothouse flowers that wither and die when they leave the fundamentalist nursery, that's your fault.

 

[AverageJoe]

Maybe these fundamentalist pastors should do their job and equip young people with what they need to remain faithful when they strike out on their own.

If you're raising delicate hothouse flowers that wither and die when they leave the fundamentalist nursery, that's your fault.

It's not just the churches responsibility...it's the parent's as well. If they've abdicated their responsibility to the church, then they're wrong.

 

[illinoisguy]

If Kevin Schaal is correct in his perceptions, then fundamentalist churches may be getting away from the unhealthy policy of pressuring their best young people to go off to BJU or other fundy schools selected by the pastor, thus exporting their most spiritual talent who, for the most part, do not come back to their home church. When I visited Newfoundland in 1999, a prominent IFB layman there complained to me about the American missionaries there who recruit their finest young people to go to college in America, specifically to BJU, and those young people do not ever come back to Canada.

When I was saved in 1972, I was heavily pressured to drop out of the college I was already attending, and to enroll at BJU and start all over. (I refused to do that). Over the years I have heard complaints about young people in BJU feeder churches being pressured to go there. Maybe we are finally getting away from that paradigm, that it is always God's will for the kids to go to Bible college. Here is what Wally Metts said in his book "Faith Brokers, Professional Christians and Their Ungodly Gains," published in 1987: "A scene that takes place almost daily in our work is that of the young person wanting to know what to do with his future. He is not fulfilled. He lacks direction. The pat answer is: surrender your life, sell what you have, go to a Christian college and prepare yourself for full-time service for the Lord. But something is wrong. I have never seen more disillusioned young people who are dropouts or graduates of such institutions, but are now forced back into a 'secular' career to survive financially, and who are more defeated than when they began. . . . It would be far wiser to teach these young people to face their responsibilities in the home, the community and the job market before considering the ministry." (page 87) "Faith Brokers" is a great book, if you can get a copy of it.

 

[AverageJoe]

I have to say that I haven't seen much difference in the people who have come out of BJU lately compared to the ones I knew back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s who went there. Of course, I haven't been looking for any changes, either.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The 2 major ‘doctrines’ for many fundamentalists have been pants on women and KKVO. By those standards didn’t BJ leave the fold a long time ago?

 

[AverageJoe]

I believe BJU has been using other translations for the past 20+ years..I know that the pastor we got in 1984 in Augusta, GA at the Garden City Baptist Church was from BJU, and he swore to us when we voted on him that he was a KJV supporter...but, we found out in the Christmas of 1984 that he was actually in favor of the NIV. He gave every family in the church an NIV Bible. So, it's probably been longer thatn the 20 years.

 

[illinoisguy]

BJU graduates have been promoting the ESV (English Standard Version) for some years now. Peter Ruckman and his followers have been loudly and harshly condemning BJU for their non-KJV Only stance for a lot more than 20 years. Critics of BJU have had plenty of fodder to feed on for many years over the KJV and women's slacks issues (BJU now allows women's slacks in class). I believe the most recent concerns and consternation among BJU alumni and former supporters are mainly about BJU failing to maintain strict ecclesiastical separation from groups that are not regarded as strictly fundamentalist (they are New Evangelical or Conservative Evangelical).

BJU graduate Don Jasmin had some criticisms of BJU in his book "Why Do Fundamental Schools Go Apostate?" (no publication date, it appears to have been published about 2005). On page 162 he criticizes BJU because "in 2003 the school ended the practice of ringing dorm bells at 6:55 AM to rouse students for daily room inspections." Jasmin saw that as evidence that BJU was "going soft." He said, "BJU's abandonment and/or modification of the older specified rules is an indication of this school's endeavor to shed its formerly militant Fundamentalist image and project a more culturally acceptable portrayal before the world's changing society. It is also an indication that BJU has lowered its standards to adapt to the lowered cultural mores of current students." Jasmin laments the dropping of other rules, such as assigned seats at Sunday dinner.

On page 179 he lambastes Dr. Bob Jones III for having spoken in 2003 at the religion department of liberal, formerly SBC school Furman University (violation of ecclesiastical separation).

On page 186 he criticizes BJU for changing its former anti-accreditation stance and applying for full accreditation with TRACS, "due to societal pressures and changes." [My comment - if young people can no longer be pressured to waste 4 years of their lives getting a degree from an unaccredited college, then it seems to me that BJU has to either change or die].

On page 222 he criticizes BJU for its participation in the Coalition for the Defense of the Scriptures, saying "The acceptance of the Critical [Westcott-Hort] Text and/or tolerance for it by members of the CDS is a recipe for spiritual disaster. It is only a matter of time until the apostate textual dye makes its liberal inroads into their curriculums."

The dilemma for diehard BJU supporters and graduates is, that in previous years they adopted the strict teachings and standards of BJU and propagated them within their congregations. But now that BJU has changed its position on so many issues, the BJU groupies have to decide what is their first loyalty - is it to the new BJU and its new policies and standards (or lack thereof), or is it to the standards and strict teaching of ecclesiastical separation which they learned at BJU many decades ago? To maintain those "old paths" and standards would require them to reject BJU, after they have spent many years promoting BJU and pressuring their young people to enroll there.

 

[4everfsu]

I know in 1971 when I attended, they did not use the KJV in chapel. I believe it was the NIV

 

[illinoisguy]

I attended the BJU annual Bible conference in March, 1972 and as I recall, they were preaching from the KJV only, but "using the KJV only" is not the same as, or even close to, the hard-line Ruckmanite KJV-only policy that was only beginning to be promoted in IFB circles at that time, and which was ignored or opposed by almost all IFB leaders at that time including Jack Hyles. One BJU student back in 1972 objected to my carrying an RSV, and gave me a tract by Carl McIntire denouncing the RSV, but opposition to the RSV (which I now share) does not equal KJV Only. My BJU-grad pastor in the 1980s was moderately KJV Only, but more recently his son, also a BJU-grad, told me that BJU was thinking of switching to the ESV and he sold me a leather bound ESV for the very generous price of 25 cents. I am not aware that BJU ever took a strict KJV-only stand at any time. Jasmin in his book states that in 1955 Dr. Bob Jones Sr. "excoriated the RSV as a vicious satanic attack upon the Son of God." But Jasmin does not cite any strictly KJV-only pronouncements by anyone at BJU at any time - Jasmin, who is KJV-only, probably would have cited such statements if he had been able to locate any.

 

[Ransom]

I believe the most recent concerns and consternation among BJU alumni and former supporters are mainly about BJU failing to maintain strict ecclesiastical separation from groups that are not regarded as strictly fundamentalist (they are New Evangelical or Conservative Evangelical).

Well, as a Baptist, why would I not want to ecclesiastically separate from a school founded by Methodists? Those people baptize babies and don't believe in local church autonomy.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I know in 1971 when I attended, they did not use the KJV in chapel

Hey Rick! Good to see you back.
Merry Christmas to your family!
And you know that was the beginning of BJ’s slide into apostasy.

 

[illinoisguy]

More commentary on David Beale's accusation against BJU, from David Doran of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

"It seems clear that Broad Evangelicalism is Dr. Beale’s updated term for the New Evangelicalism that pulled away from Fundamentalism. Here’s how he defines it, 'an Evangelicalism committed to regaining respectability in the eyes of the religious world, even if that meant joining liberals in ecumenical campaigns' (p. 6). In contrast to that, Fundamentalists practiced separation from 'disobedient brethren who preferred to identify with false teachers under the broad umbrella' (pp. 6-7, emphasis added). So, for Dr. Beale, Broad Evangelicalism is ecumenical and refuses to separate from theological liberals. . . .Accepting Dr. Beale’s definition on its face, though, means his charge against BJU is false. I have seen his explanation for the charge and it does not prove that BJU prefers 'to identify with false teachers under the broad umbrella' or that they are guilty of 'joining liberals in ecumenical campaigns.'”

Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Beale on Broader Evangelicalism - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)

Strictly speaking, it can be said that BJU is not really "Broad Evangelical" but also that they no longer hold strictly to the "second-degree separation," that is, separation from other fundamentalists who do not sufficiently separate from the libs and the New Evangelicals. BJU used to take a strong stand for "second-degree separation" and against "pseudo-fundamentalists," but not any more.

 

[illinoisguy]

Still more commentary, from Lou Martuneac, on David Beale's accusation of compromise at BJU:

In Defense of the Gospel: FACTS, An Enlarged Discussion by Dr. David Beale

I am not sure how much of this is new - BJU has had friendly relationships with Presbyterians for many years. In 1981 a friend of mine who got his bachelor's and master's degrees from BJU, and was working on his doctorate there, told me he was thinking of going into the Presbyterian ministry. (He ended up not doing that). I provide this link as documentation for those who are interested in what fundamentalists are currently saying about BJU - for informational purposes only. I do not know whether or not BJU devotees and groupies will be horrified by the accusation that BJU allows students to attend "Second Presbyterian Church (Greenville, SC): A Presbyterian Church in America (PCA). This church’s senior pastor is Dr. Richard Phillips, adjunct professor and member of the Board of Trustees at Westminster Theological Seminary, which enforces no dress codes and allows the use of alcoholic beverages."

 

[4everfsu]

Hey Rick! Good to see you back.
Merry Christmas to your family!
And you know that was the beginning of BJ’s slide into apostasy.

Thanks Larry and I hope your family and you had a Merry Christmas also

 

[Walt]

Fundamentalist church historian David Beale has published a new book in which he says that Bob Jones University has left separatist fundamentalism:

"After being the premier Fundamentalist academic institution for eighty-seven years, BJU elected Dr. Steve Pettit in 2014, as the president who steered the University out of separatist Fundamentalism into the inclusive, broad Evangelical movement" - From "Christian Fundamentalism in America," p. 179. See this link:

College, Consistency, Context, and the Condition of the Human Heart – Proclaim & Defend (proclaimanddefend.org)

David Beale was a professor at BJU for 35 years and retired in 2012. He wrote such books as "In Pursuit of Purity" and "SBC- House on the Sand?" Here is a comment on Beale's statement from Kevin Schaal (BJU graduate) on the Proclaim and Defend web site of the Foundations Baptist Fellowship International web site (or Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International, they use both names):

"I hear more concerns, especially from parents, about the cultural shifts taking place on Christian college campuses–and more than just one college. I am not trying to single out a particular school here. These concerns are pervasive. It is heartbreaking to send a young person away to college for four years only to see them encouraged (in the dorm, in their new church, and sometimes in the classroom) to abandon their fundamentalist sensibilities once they graduate. This is one reason why many fundamentalist pastors are now encouraging college students to stay home, remain faithful to their local church, and attend a local college. They are having a higher success rate in retaining those young people, not only in their local churches but also in faithfulness to their theological roots. It is not necessarily a good thing, it is just the present reality."

Thanks; interesting quote from David Beale.
Personally, I think BJU started down that path quite some time ago.

 

[Walt]

Maybe these fundamentalist pastors should do their job and equip young people with what they need to remain faithful when they strike out on their own.
If you're raising delicate hothouse flowers that wither and die when they leave the fundamentalist nursery, that's your fault.

Good points... some youth groups are less about helping the youth group and more about making the youth pastor/director look good. A balanced approach is needed... some groups emphasize performance Christianity with no knowledge or background (this seems to be common in IFB circles); some groups are just out for "fun" and, while enjoyable, have little long-term benefit to youth. Some (I assume these are rare), may teach a lot of Bible, but have left out the doing and have no time for activities.

 

[Walt]

I attended the BJU annual Bible conference in March, 1972 and as I recall, they were preaching from the KJV only, but "using the KJV only" is not the same as, or even close to, the hard-line Ruckmanite KJV-only policy that was only beginning to be promoted in IFB circles at that time, and which was ignored or opposed by almost all IFB leaders at that time including Jack Hyles. One BJU student back in 1972 objected to my carrying an RSV, and gave me a tract by Carl McIntire denouncing the RSV, but opposition to the RSV (which I now share) does not equal KJV Only. My BJU-grad pastor in the 1980s was moderately KJV Only, but more recently his son, also a BJU-grad, told me that BJU was thinking of switching to the ESV and he sold me a leather bound ESV for the very generous price of 25 cents. I am not aware that BJU ever took a strict KJV-only stand at any time. Jasmin in his book states that in 1955 Dr. Bob Jones Sr. "excoriated the RSV as a vicious satanic attack upon the Son of God." But Jasmin does not cite any strictly KJV-only pronouncements by anyone at BJU at any time - Jasmin, who is KJV-only, probably would have cited such statements if he had been able to locate any.

I agree that they were never Ruckmanite-like KJV people, but as many of their students came from fundamental churches, they probably used the KJV alone just to not cause problems. As the churches let go of using the KJV, and they started to get students from other groups, they probably just let this slip.
Regarding changing dress codes... I was shocked to read on this forum (quite a while back) of the utter hatred some female students had for the dress code there -- that, when leaving the school for holiday breaks, all the local restrooms for miles around would be jammed with BJU young women changing out of the required skirts/dresses for trousers or shorts. I can understand if they don't agree with the standards, and, while away at home, decide to wear what they want to, but to have so much hatred that they have to change as soon as they leave seems very unhealthy to me.

 

[Ransom]

I can understand if they don't agree with the standards, and, while away at home, decide to wear what they want to, but to have so much hatred that they have to change as soon as they leave seems very unhealthy to me.

They're just deciding to wear what they want to a few hours earlier. It's no less healthy than following the rules when you're off-campus and school isn't in session.

Ask instead why rational adults find the dress code so objectionable that they can't wait to dress down.

 

[4everfsu]

When I was there in 1972 BJU believed and practiced 2nd degree separation. But they would never officially acknowledge it. Basically if you as a believer in Christ ran around with unsaved friends, the BJU believer could not have fellowship with you until you ditch your friends. That was one of the reasons then that BJU had no intercollegiate sport teams back then, no we cannot play against other heathen colleges. You could not listen to any christian gospel quartets as their music was worldly. You could not listen to the Carpenters even. And they told us no footballs allowed on campus as they did not want any students getting hurt, breaking their legs. Ha, they had intramural soccer teams on campus and students ended up breaking legs ending up in the campus hospital where I worked.