If you allowed yourself to be tattooed, then it will be with you for life. If you allowed yourself to be marked up by a legalistic system, then you will retain some scars. In either case, it was a choice. Move on.Just me said:How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom?
30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
Tom Brennan said:...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.
I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
Miller said:Just me, I was in that system for 29 years and have been out of it for almost 3. Contrary to what Tom Brennen says I am closer to God now than I ever was as an IFBx. I have a greater love for Him because I have a far better understanding of His love for me. God loves me because of who He is and not because of what I do to try to please Him.
Unfortunately, my inner Pharisee still tries to run the place. Whenever our church or a fellow Christian does something that I do not like I immediately go into IFBx mode, "That is wrong. They should not be using doing this." I then have to calm down and judge the situation by what the Word of God actually says rather than by how it has been twisted for so much of my Christian life. Most of the time it comes down to the fact that the other person (or people) is/are simply doing something that I do not like, not something that is unscriptural. In those cases I have to allow them to use their liberty in Christ and gag and hogtie my inner IFBx Pharisee yet again. No matter how tightly I bind him however he still seems to work his way loose for a season.
For a good read on this issue I strongly suggest this article written by a former member of Hyles' church. He also went through what you are struggling with and I found it helpful when I first came out of that system
http://brevia.com/Spiritual/Leaving.html
Just me said:I am sorry you are insulted by my question. Your response was not insulting to me as I had to deal with that issue and thought line you raised as I was leaving the IBFx movement. Your issue is always the first brought up by those trying to control and manipulate. It is rather sad to me and just further verifies the need to run from that system.
Tom Brennan said:...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.
I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
Bob said:Tom Brennan said:...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.
I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
Respectfully, Tom, your comment is wrong-headed. I was there. I was in the churches. I was educated there. I was close to many of the "big whigs." Not Hyles, but still the big names.
I am in a church right now where the "flesh" is dealt with in a biblical manner, not a surface manner. Yes, the flesh can be tv, movies, fancy clothes, unn-necessary food, etc.
However, I am inclined to believe that when Paul mentions the flesh he means the things that he enumerates in Gal 5.
And the ones that are winked at in many ifb circles are idolatry, enmity, strife, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions.
I saw idolatry. Men who talked more of fishing and sports than anything related to God. men and women whose lives did consist of the things they possessed, contrary to Luke 12.
enmity: people in relatively small congregations who hated each other with a passion and everyone knew it but were afraid to deal with them for fear of losing a tithe.
strife: people who fought over anything where they could not have their preferences.
anger: preachers who railed on people publicly. Church leaders who treated their families with unadulterated anger. (all hidden from public view for appearances sake)
In these same churches, the rules of living were so clear that if you were seen at the mall with slacks on, you were eventually approached and "talked to."
They were classical Pharisees. Cleaning the outside of the cup when the inside was full of greed and self-indulgence.
Now, I must say that there are ifb people who do not do these things. But the majority I have experienced do. And I have been in a lot of churches.
It takes a long time to shed the stuff.
Read Tom Hovestal's wonderful book:
Extreme Righteousness: Seeing ourselves in the Pharisees.
It was the beginning for me of about 5 years of questioning everything I had been indoctrinated with in the movement. I left a long time ago, and still the reverberations are there.
Tom Brennan said:Just me said:I am sorry you are insulted by my question. Your response was not insulting to me as I had to deal with that issue and thought line you raised as I was leaving the IBFx movement. Your issue is always the first brought up by those trying to control and manipulate. It is rather sad to me and just further verifies the need to run from that system.
So by raising the question I raised I am seeking to control/manipulate you? Were you seeking to control/manipulate yourself when you asked yourself that question? Well, the answer to that is 'no', of course, and neither was I. It is a valid response that apparently you have examined and come to some conclusion on. So, from your perspective, what is that valid response? Don't just tell me it is controlling/manipulative and then ignore it. That isn't an answer.
Bob said:........ Read Tom Hovestal's wonderful book:
Extreme Righteousness: Seeing ourselves in the Pharisees.
It was the beginning for me of about 5 years of questioning everything I had been indoctrinated with in the movement. I left a long time ago, and still the reverberations are there.
Miller said:Being IFBx is easy. You have this long list of rules to adhere to and as long as you do so, you are right with God. I can remember going down the check list. "Hair not touching the ears, check. Suit and tie, check. Wife not in pants, check. KVJ Bible under arm, check. Knocked on one door this week, check. Do not have any music that sounds anywhere remotely modern, check. Well, it looks like I am reacy for church."
When you leave that and begin to understand Christian liberty and the concept of grace, it begins to get more difficult. Now I can no longer look at someone's outward appearance and determine immediatly his standing with God. Now I have to get to know someone and develop a relationship with him before I can see if he is someone who really loves God or if he is a backslidden Christian. Now I don't have a long list of rules that I can check off to determine my own spirituality. Instead I must rely upon the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide me in my relationship with Him.
Just me said:How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom?
30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
jimmudcatgrant said:Just me said:How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom?
decades in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took decades to tell that you were being taught wrong? Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
jimmudcatgrant said:Just me said:How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom?
30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took 30 years to tell that you were being taught wrong? Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
jimmudcatgrant said:Just me said:How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom?
30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took 30 years to tell that you were being taught wrong? Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.