How long does it take

Just me

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How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

decades in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
 

Fresh Air

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...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.





I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
 
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Bro Blue

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I am still in an IFB church. However, through some serious study I have become free on a few of the issues. Tithing being an example. When you begin to give the right way, you still instinctively compare to the ten percent. And for those that might say that it is your guilty conscience speaking...try breaking a habit some time. Whatever gets imbedded in your mind, whether good or bad, is still hard to forget about once you start to do something else.
Just because you leave behind some legalistic ways, does not automatically mean you are going to replace them with carnal ways.
Romans 12 tells us not to be conformed to this world. I believe that can apply to a man-made religious world too.
I believe that when a christian starts getting their eyes opened, they can discouraged about the whole thing and be tempted to quit. Not a good idea.
 

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The way I see it Legalism is just doing the bare minimum. Jesus taught that we should go the extra mile. Christians should be known for doing more than the Pharisees not less - but we do it in the Lord in his strength and grace. Jesus said Take my yoke upon you and learn of me - the yoke was something used for oxen in working not resting - For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.  When you take that yoke upon you and learn from Him, that is when you can be free of whatever has been a heavy burden to you.
 
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Bro Blue

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The thing that bothers me most, is that people make out like you don't want to give if you don't agree with tithing ten percent. Like we just say "yaaay, I can get away with a $20 this week". I believe getting out from under that man-made yoke opens up the door to much more spiritual giving.
This is no means the only issues...just one of the biggies.
 

JrChurch

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Just me said:
How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
If you allowed yourself to be tattooed, then it will be with you for life.  If you allowed yourself to be marked up by a legalistic system, then you will retain some scars.  In either case, it was a choice.  Move on.
 

Just me

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Tom Brennan said:
...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.





I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
I am sorry you are insulted by my question.  Your response was not insulting to me as I had to deal with that issue and thought line you raised as I was leaving the IBFx movement.  Your issue is always the first brought up by those trying to control and manipulate.  It is rather sad to me and just further verifies the need to run from that system.

 
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Miller

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Just me, I was in that system for 29 years and have been out of it for almost 3. Contrary to what Tom Brennen says I am closer to God now than I ever was as an IFBx. I have a greater love for Him because I have a far better understanding of His love for me. God loves me because of who He is and not because of what I do to try to please Him.

Unfortunately, my inner Pharisee still tries to run the place. Whenever our church or a fellow Christian does something that I do not like I immediately go into IFBx mode, "That is wrong. They should not be using doing this." I then have to calm down and judge the situation by what the Word of God actually says rather than by how it has been twisted for so much of my Christian life. Most of the time it comes down to the fact that the other person (or people) is/are simply doing something that I do not like, not something that is unscriptural. In those cases I have to allow them to use their liberty in Christ and gag and hogtie my inner IFBx Pharisee yet again. No matter how tightly I bind him however he still seems to work his way loose for a season.

For a good read on this issue I strongly suggest this article written by a former member of Hyles' church. He also went through what you are struggling with and I found it helpful when I first came out of that system
http://brevia.com/Spiritual/Leaving.html
 

Just me

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Miller said:
Just me, I was in that system for 29 years and have been out of it for almost 3. Contrary to what Tom Brennen says I am closer to God now than I ever was as an IFBx. I have a greater love for Him because I have a far better understanding of His love for me. God loves me because of who He is and not because of what I do to try to please Him.

Unfortunately, my inner Pharisee still tries to run the place. Whenever our church or a fellow Christian does something that I do not like I immediately go into IFBx mode, "That is wrong. They should not be using doing this." I then have to calm down and judge the situation by what the Word of God actually says rather than by how it has been twisted for so much of my Christian life. Most of the time it comes down to the fact that the other person (or people) is/are simply doing something that I do not like, not something that is unscriptural. In those cases I have to allow them to use their liberty in Christ and gag and hogtie my inner IFBx Pharisee yet again. No matter how tightly I bind him however he still seems to work his way loose for a season.

For a good read on this issue I strongly suggest this article written by a former member of Hyles' church. He also went through what you are struggling with and I found it helpful when I first came out of that system
http://brevia.com/Spiritual/Leaving.html
Thanks Miller.  Encouraging words and that is a very good read.  I have a few close people I want to read it also.

It is amazing how our awesome Lord loves and guides us when we let Him!!!!!
 
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Miller

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Thanks Miller.  Encouraging words and that is a very good read.  I have a few close people I want to read it also.

It is amazing how our awesome Lord loves and guides us when we let Him!!!!!
[/quote]

Glad I could be of some help. Please feel free to contact me if there is anything I can do for you.
 

Fresh Air

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Just me said:
I am sorry you are insulted by my question.  Your response was not insulting to me as I had to deal with that issue and thought line you raised as I was leaving the IBFx movement.  Your issue is always the first brought up by those trying to control and manipulate.  It is rather sad to me and just further verifies the need to run from that system.
So by raising the question I raised I am seeking to control/manipulate you? Were you seeking to control/manipulate yourself when you asked yourself that question? Well, the answer to that is 'no', of course, and neither was I. It is a valid response that apparently you have examined and come to some conclusion on. So, from your perspective, what is that valid response? Don't just tell me it is controlling/manipulative and then ignore it. That isn't an answer.
 
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Bob

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Tom Brennan said:
...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.





I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
Respectfully, Tom, your comment is wrong-headed. I was there. I was in the churches. I was educated there. I was close to many of the "big whigs." Not Hyles, but still the big names.

I am in a church right now where the "flesh" is dealt with in a biblical manner, not a surface manner. Yes, the flesh can be tv, movies, fancy clothes, unn-necessary food, etc.

However, I am inclined to believe that when Paul mentions the flesh he means the things that he enumerates in Gal 5.

And the ones that are winked at in many ifb circles are idolatry, enmity, strife, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions.

I saw idolatry. Men who talked more of fishing and sports than anything related to God.  men and women whose lives did consist of the things they possessed, contrary to Luke 12.

enmity: people in relatively small congregations who hated each other with a passion and everyone knew it but were afraid to deal with them for fear of losing a tithe.

strife: people who fought over anything where they could not have their preferences.

anger: preachers who railed on people publicly. Church leaders who treated their families with unadulterated anger. (all hidden from public view for appearances sake)

In these same churches, the rules of living were so clear that if you were seen at the mall with slacks on, you were eventually approached and "talked to."

They were classical Pharisees. Cleaning the outside of the cup when the inside was full of greed and self-indulgence.

Now, I must say that there are ifb people who do not do these things. But the majority I have experienced do. And I have been in a lot of churches.

It takes a long time to shed the stuff.

Read Tom Hovestal's wonderful book:

Extreme Righteousness: Seeing ourselves in the Pharisees.

It was the beginning for me of about 5 years of questioning everything I had been indoctrinated with in the movement.  I left a long time ago, and still the reverberations are there.
 
M

Miller

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Bob said:
Tom Brennan said:
...it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh.





I realize that answer could be taken as insulting, but IMHO, it is no more insulting than to you than the question is to me.
Respectfully, Tom, your comment is wrong-headed. I was there. I was in the churches. I was educated there. I was close to many of the "big whigs." Not Hyles, but still the big names.

I am in a church right now where the "flesh" is dealt with in a biblical manner, not a surface manner. Yes, the flesh can be tv, movies, fancy clothes, unn-necessary food, etc.

However, I am inclined to believe that when Paul mentions the flesh he means the things that he enumerates in Gal 5.

And the ones that are winked at in many ifb circles are idolatry, enmity, strife, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions.

I saw idolatry. Men who talked more of fishing and sports than anything related to God.  men and women whose lives did consist of the things they possessed, contrary to Luke 12.

enmity: people in relatively small congregations who hated each other with a passion and everyone knew it but were afraid to deal with them for fear of losing a tithe.

strife: people who fought over anything where they could not have their preferences.

anger: preachers who railed on people publicly. Church leaders who treated their families with unadulterated anger. (all hidden from public view for appearances sake)

In these same churches, the rules of living were so clear that if you were seen at the mall with slacks on, you were eventually approached and "talked to."

They were classical Pharisees. Cleaning the outside of the cup when the inside was full of greed and self-indulgence.

Now, I must say that there are ifb people who do not do these things. But the majority I have experienced do. And I have been in a lot of churches.

It takes a long time to shed the stuff.

Read Tom Hovestal's wonderful book:

Extreme Righteousness: Seeing ourselves in the Pharisees.

It was the beginning for me of about 5 years of questioning everything I had been indoctrinated with in the movement.  I left a long time ago, and still the reverberations are there.
Being IFBx is easy. You have this long list of rules to adhere to and as long as you do so, you are right with God. I can remember going down the check list. "Hair not touching the ears, check. Suit and tie, check. Wife not in pants, check. KVJ Bible under arm, check. Knocked on one door this week, check. Do not have any music that sounds anywhere remotely modern, check. Well, it looks like I am reacy for church."

When you leave that and begin to understand Christian liberty and the concept of grace, it begins to get more difficult. Now I can no longer look at someone's outward appearance and determine immediatly his standing with God. Now I have to get to know someone and develop a relationship with him before I can see if he is someone who really loves God or if he is a backslidden Christian. Now I don't have a long list of rules that I can check off to determine my own spirituality. Instead I must rely upon the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide me in my relationship with Him.
 

Just me

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Tom Brennan said:
Just me said:
I am sorry you are insulted by my question.  Your response was not insulting to me as I had to deal with that issue and thought line you raised as I was leaving the IBFx movement.  Your issue is always the first brought up by those trying to control and manipulate.  It is rather sad to me and just further verifies the need to run from that system.
So by raising the question I raised I am seeking to control/manipulate you? Were you seeking to control/manipulate yourself when you asked yourself that question? Well, the answer to that is 'no', of course, and neither was I. It is a valid response that apparently you have examined and come to some conclusion on. So, from your perspective, what is that valid response? Don't just tell me it is controlling/manipulative and then ignore it. That isn't an answer.
Fair enough.  Neither of us is insulted by my question or your response. 

As to my response to your first post I mean, from my decades in the IFBx world, anytime an individual questions in any way the position of leadership it is branded as being backslidden, worldly, fleshly and down right unspiritual.  I believe it is done for purposes of control and minipulation to get a Christian back into a "right walk with God" as defined by the IFBx leadership. (not defind by God's Word) So when I asked how long it takes to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking your response was "..it depends on how quickly and how often and to what extent you begin to indulge the flesh."  I look at that as aimimg to impliment that same minipulation method I realized was not God's way of leading His children. 

Mr. Brennan I do not have any clue as to who you are personally nor do I claim to know anything about you.  You probably are not like the leadership I am referring to but your response triggered my above reaction as that is what IFBx leadership has always done in my experience.  Thanks for taking time to respond.
 

Just me

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Bob said:
........      Read Tom Hovestal's wonderful book:

Extreme Righteousness: Seeing ourselves in the Pharisees.

It was the beginning for me of about 5 years of questioning everything I had been indoctrinated with in the movement.  I left a long time ago, and still the reverberations are there.
Thanks, sir,  I will check it out.
 

HeDied4U

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Miller said:
Being IFBx is easy. You have this long list of rules to adhere to and as long as you do so, you are right with God. I can remember going down the check list. "Hair not touching the ears, check. Suit and tie, check. Wife not in pants, check. KVJ Bible under arm, check. Knocked on one door this week, check. Do not have any music that sounds anywhere remotely modern, check. Well, it looks like I am reacy for church."

When you leave that and begin to understand Christian liberty and the concept of grace, it begins to get more difficult. Now I can no longer look at someone's outward appearance and determine immediatly his standing with God. Now I have to get to know someone and develop a relationship with him before I can see if he is someone who really loves God or if he is a backslidden Christian. Now I don't have a long list of rules that I can check off to determine my own spirituality. Instead I must rely upon the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide me in my relationship with Him.
Well said.

 
J

jimmudcatgrant

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Just me said:
How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took 30 years to tell that you were being taught wrong?  Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
 

Just me

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jimmudcatgrant said:
Just me said:
How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

decades in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took decades to tell that you were being taught wrong?  Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
Yes, decades, and all responsibility is on me.  I have well taken care of that responsibility with those whom it needs.  All things are good from that end I assure you.  As for the system, do not blame it and can not change it either, although I tried for many years.  Funny thing is, I thought all along I was doing things by the Word of God.  So do the many left within the system.  Therein lies the difficulty of change.
 
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Bro Blue

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jimmudcatgrant said:
Just me said:
How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took 30 years to tell that you were being taught wrong?  Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
That's a bit harsh. There are plenty of people who are taught from a young age to accept everything they hear from the pulpit without question. Some people wake out of their slumber later than others. Better late than...never.
As for myself, I am still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes...and ready to hit the coffee! metaphorically speaking of course ;D
 
B

Bob

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jimmudcatgrant said:
Just me said:
How long does it take to remove the IFBx legalistic behavior and thinking once finally departing ways with IFBXdom? 

30 years in the system before walking away and it was imbedded very deeply......
It took 30 years to tell that you were being taught wrong?  Don't blame the system, blame yourself and move on and try everything by the word of God from now on.
Don't blame Just me. The greater responsibility lies with the teachers. They will be held to the higher accountability.  When you are taught something from someone in authority whom you are supposed to trust, you normally accept it, until such time as you feel that you cannot trust them.  For some people, that takes 30 years.  Some people are more inclined to follow.  I do not blame Just Me. I blame the pastors and teachers who led him astray.
 
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