IFBx treatment almost too hard to believe.

[ALAYMAN]

I was talking the other day with somebody who pastors.  Unbeknownst  to me they had been reared in IFBx-dom and endured a brief stint in one of the hardcore kawledges represented on this forum.  They left IFB-land altogether in part because of some of the usual reasons, but in particular because of an episode that I still have a hard time rapping my head around.  He had begun to date somebody who was of an Arminian/Holinesss persuasion.  The faculty/administrators gave him the ultimatum that he could either stop dating the girl (his wife now of many years) or he could "go to hell with her"!  I was so incredulous that I looked him in the eye and asked him point blank if he was embellishing, or if that was their exact words, and he repeated the phrase with just as much emphasis.  I don't doubt his word, but it is difficult to process that there are people in leadership positions at Christian colleges that could exhibit such an absence of tact and grace.  I don't know how I would have handled it, but I am a very independent-minded person that would have had difficulty with controlling my emotion/reaction in light of such ignorance, but I didnt' grow up in such a stifling and austere environment, so challenging authority wasn't really an issue for me if it was merited.  For instance, in secular university, in a child psychology class, an instructor who was a jerk crossed a line of behavior and seriously offended my then girlfriend (now wife of 24 years).  It was obvious that his behavior (physically) had not only offended her, but actually scared her.  I waited til the end of the class to see if he would address his mistake, and when he didn't I asked to meet with him during his office hours, to which he agreed.  At that time I relayed his offense, and in typical jerk fashion he gave a lame apology amounting to "tell her I am sorry if she was offended".  I should, and would have escalated the episode up the administrative chain but she didn't want to rock the boat, so I dropped it.  Anyhoo....

Do you have any firsthand experiences that rival the callous mistreatment and abuse that this young man/preacherboy experienced?

 

[Billy]

I sat to close to my girl friend (now my wife of 36 years) at FBHammond and was restricted to campus for two weeks and was told that I wasn't approved to date her...even though we had been dating for over a year.

Then it was my weekend to have the emergency beeper (what are those) and it just happened to be Super Bowl Sunday and I sat in FBHammond and was accused of listening to the ball game in church.

I still suffer the effects of this racial profiling today.

Billy

 

[Jo]

In the early 80s, many IFB churches in the South had a section where the blacks were supposed to sit.

There is a great vintage video that I watched years ago.  It's in black and white, of course.  An elementary teacher has half her class wear a black armband.  The students without an armband were told during recess that they are to ignore the other kids.  The teacher told the students without an armband how they were to treat the others.

After recess was over, they filmed the teacher with all of her students.  She asked them how they felt.  They described how it felt to be ignored, to have other kids not want to play with you and to basically be ostracized.

It's a very moving film and worth watching if anyone finds it.

I heard a black preacher say that the most segregated time in America is on Sunday morning.

Of course, at FBC Hammond it was a bit different.  It was ok to bring a bunch of black kids, as long as they could ride your bus and they were breathing. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I sat to close to my girl friend (now my wife of 36 years) at FBHammond and was restricted to campus for two weeks and was told that I wasn't approved to date her...even though we had been dating for over a year.

Then it was my weekend to have the emergency beeper (what are those) and it just happened to be Super Bowl Sunday and I sat in FBHammond and was accused of listening to the ball game in church.

I still suffer the effects of this racial profiling today.

Billy

Why were you not approved to date her?  What kind of rules went into that "approval" process? 

And what in the world did possessing a beeper have to do with being able to listen to the Super Bowl???  Did they think you had a radio rather than a beeper?  That is part and parcel of much of what is wrong with such judgmental-rules-oriented Christianity.  It's like the No Movie Theater rule.  Why in the world would somebody ASSume that simply because I went into a movie house that I was going to watch the worst thing that was playing?  Or just because I am drinking an IBC rootbeer that I am coveting a real beer???

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

In the early 80s, many IFB churches in the South had a section where the blacks were supposed to sit.

There is a great vintage video that I watched years ago.  It's in black and white, of course.  An elementary teacher has half her class wear a black armband.  The students without an armband were told during recess that they are to ignore the other kids.  The teacher told the students without an armband how they were to treat the others.

After recess was over, they filmed the teacher with all of her students.  She asked them how they felt.  They described how it felt to be ignored, to have other kids not want to play with you and to basically be ostracized.

It's a very moving film and worth watching if anyone finds it.

I heard a black preacher say that the most segregated time in America is on Sunday morning.

Of course, at FBC Hammond it was a bit different.  It was ok to bring a bunch of black kids, as long as they could ride your bus and they were breathing.

I was an IFB in the south for decades before and after the 80's and never heard of a separate seating area for blacks. Not saying it didn't happen, but I have never seen or heard of such!

The most segregated time may be Sunday morning...but there are MANY reasons for that apart from racism.

 

[Twisted]

In the early 80s, many IFB churches in the South had a section where the blacks were supposed to sit.

There is a great vintage video that I watched years ago.  It's in black and white, of course.  An elementary teacher has half her class wear a black armband.  The students without an armband were told during recess that they are to ignore the other kids.  The teacher told the students without an armband how they were to treat the others.

After recess was over, they filmed the teacher with all of her students.  She asked them how they felt.  They described how it felt to be ignored, to have other kids not want to play with you and to basically be ostracized.

It's a very moving film and worth watching if anyone finds it.

I heard a black preacher say that the most segregated time in America is on Sunday morning.

Of course, at FBC Hammond it was a bit different.  It was ok to bring a bunch of black kids, as long as they could ride your bus and they were breathing.

I was an IFB in the south for decades before and after the 80's and never heard of a separate seating area for blacks. Not saying it didn't happen, but I have never seen or heard of such!

The most segregated time may be Sunday morning...but there are MANY reasons for that apart from racism.

I had a former-famous IFB pastor out West tell us to not go out of our way to reach Blacks.

(Read between the lines:  "We want Blacks saved but we don't want them in our church")

This was in the late 70's.

 

[Route_70]

Do you have any firsthand experiences that rival the callous mistreatment and abuse that this young man/preacherboy experienced?

Poor God-fearing, Bible-totin', holier-than-thou Believers.

I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[biscuit1953]

In the 50's and 60's all the churches I knew of were segregated.  I knew nothing but segregation growing up because that was simply the way it was.  Its easy to point fingers and judge a time and place in history that you didn't live in.  My grandmother's church (Church of God) held separate services on Sundays because they shared the same building but no one thought anything about it at the time and there was a sweet spirit between the congregations.  I believe eventually the separate restrooms and things like that would have been changed even if the civil rights movement never occurred.  Herman Cain laughs at the time he sneaked around and drank out of the "White" water fountain.  He doesn't live in the past with a woe is me attitude.  Every group can bring up things that happened years ago and become bitter about things that can't be changed.

 

[LongGone]

In the 50's and 60's all the churches I knew of were segregated.  I knew nothing but segregation growing up because that was simply the way it was.  Its easy to point fingers and judge a time and place in history that you didn't live in.  My grandmother's church (Church of God) held separate services on Sundays because they shared the same building but no one thought anything about it at the time and there was a sweet spirit between the congregations.  I believe eventually the separate restrooms and things like that would have been changed even if the civil rights movement never occurred.  Herman Cain laughs at the time he sneaked around and drank out of the "White" water fountain.  He doesn't live in the past with a woe is me attitude.  Every group can bring up things that happened years ago and become bitter about things that can't be changed.

In America many groups have had it hard but it is still a little disingenuous to compare it to the overall black experience in the US. Are you implying that non-Republican blacks such as the President are bitter?

 

[biscuit1953]

In the 50's and 60's all the churches I knew of were segregated.  I knew nothing but segregation growing up because that was simply the way it was.  Its easy to point fingers and judge a time and place in history that you didn't live in.  My grandmother's church (Church of God) held separate services on Sundays because they shared the same building but no one thought anything about it at the time and there was a sweet spirit between the congregations.  I believe eventually the separate restrooms and things like that would have been changed even if the civil rights movement never occurred.  Herman Cain laughs at the time he sneaked around and drank out of the "White" water fountain.  He doesn't live in the past with a woe is me attitude.  Every group can bring up things that happened years ago and become bitter about things that can't be changed.

In America many groups have had it hard but it is still a little disingenuous to compare it to the overall black experience in the US. Are you implying that non-Republican blacks such as the President are bitter?

President Obama is one of the most bitter Black men I have ever heard.  He harps on race continually and  pretends he lived under segregation (which he didn't).  I listened to Obama in his own voice on "Dreams of My Father" where he said he gravitated to Marxists professors and he believes the country that has given him so much is nothing but a racist hellhole while apologizing to every tin horn dictator for what he perceives as all the wrongs that have  been done to every group in existence.  Bitter isn't the word for it.

 

[Billy]

I sat to close to my girl friend (now my wife of 36 years) at FBHammond and was restricted to campus for two weeks and was told that I wasn't approved to date her...even though we had been dating for over a year.

Then it was my weekend to have the emergency beeper (what are those) and it just happened to be Super Bowl Sunday and I sat in FBHammond and was accused of listening to the ball game in church.

I still suffer the effects of this racial profiling today.

Billy

Why were you not approved to date her?  What kind of rules went into that "approval" process? 

And what in the world did possessing a beeper have to do with being able to listen to the Super Bowl???  Did they think you had a radio rather than a beeper?  That is part and parcel of much of what is wrong with such judgmental-rules-oriented Christianity.  It's like the No Movie Theater rule.  Why in the world would somebody ASSume that simply because I went into a movie house that I was going to watch the worst thing that was playing?  Or just because I am drinking an IBC rootbeer that I am coveting a real beer???

Becky was a senior at Hammond Baptist and I was a sophomore at HAC...no one told me that I had to get "written" permission from the college to date a non-college girl...even though we were already dating.  Approval took over a month and I wasn't allowed contact during that month.

The beeper came with an ear piece and if the faculty member who sat behind me would have ask I would have shown her that it was a beeper not a radio...but got called on the carpet and had to have a letter sent from my employer to prove it for them. 



Billy

 

[Billy]

In the early 80s, many IFB churches in the South had a section where the blacks were supposed to sit.

There is a great vintage video that I watched years ago.  It's in black and white, of course.  An elementary teacher has half her class wear a black armband.  The students without an armband were told during recess that they are to ignore the other kids.  The teacher told the students without an armband how they were to treat the others.

After recess was over, they filmed the teacher with all of her students.  She asked them how they felt.  They described how it felt to be ignored, to have other kids not want to play with you and to basically be ostracized.

It's a very moving film and worth watching if anyone finds it.

I heard a black preacher say that the most segregated time in America is on Sunday morning.

Of course, at FBC Hammond it was a bit different.  It was ok to bring a bunch of black kids, as long as they could ride your bus and they were breathing.

I was an IFB in the south for decades before and after the 80's and never heard of a separate seating area for blacks. Not saying it didn't happen, but I have never seen or heard of such!

The most segregated time may be Sunday morning...but there are MANY reasons for that apart from racism.

My former IFB church did not baptize the first black person until the 1990's and then they made the congregation stand and vote for or against the first interracial family....this didn't happen when a white family joined.


Billy

 

[Jo]

I had the pleasure years ago to work in a call center for an insurance company.  I went through training for several weeks with the same group of people, most of them were young and black.  I learned a lot about insurance, but I also learned a lot by talking to them routinely for almost a year.

They were vibrant, intelligent, compassionate and rarely bitter.

We talked about many things as we waited for customers to call in. 

The stories they told me were disheartening.  For example, a black girl in the area had resisted arrest in one of the more affluent areas.  She ran from the police.  The police caught up with her and someone caught it on video.  Of course, it ended up on the news.  I heard the girls' father on the radio say, "If you are black, you are taught to run from the police."  I had never heard that before from anyone, so I asked the group of young black people who sat near me if that was true.  They all nodded their heads.

There were other things I learned from them.  They were motivated.  They rejoiced when others did well.  I could go on and on.....not to mention, at times they were absolutely hilarious!!

I think if you don't have any black people in your church and/or you don't know any, you have no idea the joy it can bring.

I have friends that are black, and I have two friends who are married to Dallas police officers.  I support them all.  I believe God would have it that way.

I can't change the past, but I can sure try to contribute positively to the future.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

To my liberal minded 'do-gooder'* friends on the FFF:

Do you assume that if someone supports and respects Police officers in general that they have no black friends?
Do you believe that one cannot support Police officers and not think they should be held to high standards (at the same time)?
Our church  hosted an African American church plant, because they couldn't find another suitable meeting place.
My wife served as their pianist when they started. That Pastor is still one of the best friends I have on the planet.

Our church, right this minute, is hosting our weekly food ministry..we will serve over 100 families today...and over 75% of them will be black families. It is one thing to post drivel on the internet and quite another to actually DO something to help those same people we support with lip service.

My experience with black friends and  acquaintances is that, like white people, some are good, honest,hard working and some are not. I have had the same personal experience with police officers. My experience working with one of the poorest, crime infested areas of our city is that the residents (mostly black) want and need police presence and protection in their neighborhood...to protect them from some of their neighbors.

Liberal 'do-gooders'* are mocked in the neighborhoods we work in...those who talk in platitudes and then ask the gubmit to start a program to help them.
Many on the fff would make wonderful 'do-gooders'*...smellin could be their president.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Just a guess, but I'd say that the racist stuff of yesteryear wasn't exclusive to IFB(x) churches in the south.  Not that that made it okay.  The heavy-handed rules crap and abuse of people under the guise of being spiritual is what I.just.don't.get.

 

[Route_70]

The heavy-handed abuse of people under the guise of being spiritual is what I.just.don't.get.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Jo]

Just a guess, but I'd say that the racist stuff of yesteryear wasn't exclusive to IFB(x) churches in the south.  Not that that made it okay.  The heavy-handed rules crap and abuse of people under the guise of being spiritual is what I.just.don't.get.

I agree with you and meant to comment on that earlier. It's not just the IFB.  I worked for a very large Baptist (not IFB related ) institution in the late 90s.  I was shocked to hear that "they didn't hire blacks".  I think my mouth dropped open when I learned that.

I also think that some of us, including myself, are perhaps more prejudice than we realize.  About a decade ago, I was in a large metroplex trying to catch a bus.  Two pre-teen black boys started running in my direction.  I thought they were going to steal my purse.  I can't remember what I said, but I heard a deep, calm older black voice nearby say, "They were trying to catch the bus."  I was ashamed of myself for assuming they were up to no good. 

 

[Jo]

When I was a teenager, I was saved and started attending a church pastored by a BJU grad.  One Sunday night, he preached on Ham of the old testament something about the curse of Ham.  He tied it to the blacks and slavery.  I just never bought into it.

Part of my viewpoint could be that my father taught in public school over 20 years.  Before and after he taught, he drove a small nursery school bus that took kids from the projects to and from their nursery school.  He had a black woman as a boss.  My exposure to blacks was very limited, but I can honestly say I never heard my father use the "n" word, nor did I hear any other relative make any racist comments.  I guess I was lucky that way.  I think my aunts, uncles, etc. were of the mindset that you judged a man by his actions, not the color of his skin.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The heavy-handed abuse of people under the guise of being spiritual is what I.just.don't.get.

I couldn't agree more.

It could be that there are a bunch of them folk merely masquerading as Christians and church members, doing the devil's work.  Matt 7:21-23

 

[Route_70]

The heavy-handed abuse of people under the guise of being spiritual is what I.just.don't.get.

I couldn't agree more.

It could be that there are a bunch of them folk merely masquerading as Christians and church members, doing the devil's work.  Matt 7:21-23

"masquerading" ... would that be the same thing as FRAUD?