Is Local Church With Membership Biblical?

T-Bone

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
3,769
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
62
We have had thread on the Universal Church many times...we also have those here that seem to be opposed to certain expressions of the local church.  Here is an article by Matt Chandler dealing with this issue from his prospective.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/151320-is-church-membership-biblical.html
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Sure.... just more of the same.

A denier starts "pastoring" a church and needs to convince his members they need him.... so he changes his mind.

I've seen it happen time and time again. Its self serving to point to the early church and claim authority that isn't given to them. You're either fall into the "name it claim" authority model or you're for apostolic succession. There really isn't much room in the "middle".

I'm for the local church.... but becoming a "member" somewhere.... well.... You will not find that anywhere in the Scriptures.

We ignore just how much has changed since the time of the apostles. You want my honest opinion.... I'll just give it to you.

If you want to compare the current model of authority for mankind on the earth.... Look no further than Abraham and the Patriarchs.
 

The Rogue Tomato

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
5,279
Reaction score
0
Points
0
T-Bone said:
We have had thread on the Universal Church many times...we also have those here that seem to be opposed to certain expressions of the local church.  Here is an article by Matt Chandler dealing with this issue from his prospective.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/151320-is-church-membership-biblical.html

Good question.  I see that his view was influenced by (a poor translation of) Hebrews, a book which was not included in the texts by Irenaeus.  Yet another reason why I favor Irenaeus' list.  Marcion was even earlier, but Marcion was a wacko. ;)

 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
The Rogue Tomato said:
T-Bone said:
We have had thread on the Universal Church many times...we also have those here that seem to be opposed to certain expressions of the local church.  Here is an article by Matt Chandler dealing with this issue from his prospective.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/151320-is-church-membership-biblical.html

Good question.  I see that his view was influenced by (a poor translation of) Hebrews, a book which was not included in the texts by Irenaeus.  Yet another reason why I favor Irenaeus' list.  Marcion was even earlier, but Marcion was a wacko. ;)


Irenaeus made some pretty outlandish claims about Polycarp. Throwing his proclivity for apostolic succession .... and he's not "all there".

I don't see how you can't consider Hebrews divine. I don't care if "Ted" penned it during his one of his "excellent adventures". :)
 

The Rogue Tomato

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
5,279
Reaction score
0
Points
0
praise_yeshua said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
T-Bone said:
We have had thread on the Universal Church many times...we also have those here that seem to be opposed to certain expressions of the local church.  Here is an article by Matt Chandler dealing with this issue from his prospective.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/151320-is-church-membership-biblical.html

Good question.  I see that his view was influenced by (a poor translation of) Hebrews, a book which was not included in the texts by Irenaeus.  Yet another reason why I favor Irenaeus' list.  Marcion was even earlier, but Marcion was a wacko. ;)


Irenaeus made some pretty outlandish claims about Polycarp. Throwing his proclivity for apostolic succession .... and he's not "all there".

I don't see how you can't consider Hebrews divine. I don't care if "Ted" penned it during his one of his "excellent adventures". :)

Hebrews is a great book.  I don't think it's necessarily inspired, but that doesn't take away from the benefits one gets by studying it.  There are a lot of other wonderful scripture-based books that aren't in the Bible, too.  Just because I don't think it belongs in the canon doesn't mean it should be ignored. 

Added:  Now, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude -- You could delete them from literary history, not just the Bible, and I don't think we'd be missing a thing.  Just IMO.  Your mileage may vary. 

 

Bob H

Active member
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
1,055
Reaction score
8
Points
38
praise_yeshua said:
Sure.... just more of the same.

A denier starts "pastoring" a church and needs to convince his members they need him....



The reason one starts "pastoring" a church is because the "members" hired him. If they didn't need one they wouldn't of hired him............wait, I just said the same thing twice.



 

brianb

Active member
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
15
Points
38
T-Bone said:
We have had thread on the Universal Church many times...we also have those here that seem to be opposed to certain expressions of the local church.  Here is an article by Matt Chandler dealing with this issue from his prospective.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/151320-is-church-membership-biblical.html

It's Biblical to regularly participate (which includes exercising spiritual gifts) in a regular local assembly of believers  but is it Biblical to join one? Not sure.  The only perk is you get to participate in business meetings  if it's that kind of church. 
 

ALAYMAN

Well-known member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
76
Points
48
People don't like membership like millenials don't like marriage.  Too much commitment and accountability for their taste.
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
ALAYMAN said:
People don't like membership like millenials don't like marriage.  Too much commitment and accountability for their taste.

When you accountable to God..... being accountable to man doesn't really matter to you.

Its becoming increasingly true that being accountable to God will put on the "bad side" of most local churches. I think too much of God to lower my standard to be accountable to them.

Abraham did just fine without being accountable to some "name it, claim it" authority. He was called the "friend of God". Not the "friend of the congregation".

Paul said that all Asia had turned away from him. I'll gladly take solace in reproach.
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Bob H said:
he reason one starts "pastoring" a church is because the "members" hired him. If they didn't need one they wouldn't of hired him............wait, I just said the same thing twice.

and he was looking for a job, if he wasn't.... he wouldn't have taken the job. If one thing to have a job and entirely another to have a calling.

The exception are those pastoring successful "churches" who keep moving up the ladder....



 

ALAYMAN

Well-known member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
76
Points
48
praise_yeshua said:
ALAYMAN said:
People don't like membership like millenials don't like marriage.  Too much commitment and accountability for their taste.

When you accountable to God..... being accountable to man doesn't really matter to you.

Its becoming increasingly true that being accountable to God will put on the "bad side" of most local churches. I think too much of God to lower my standard to be accountable to them.

Abraham did just fine without being accountable to some "name it, claim it" authority. He was called the "friend of God". Not the "friend of the congregation".

Paul said that all Asia had turned away from him. I'll gladly take solace in reproach.

Corporate worship is imprinted all through the Bible for the community of God's remnant.  Isolationism is the retreat of a mind rationalizing away Scriptures that gets in the  way.
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
ALAYMAN said:
praise_yeshua said:
ALAYMAN said:
People don't like membership like millenials don't like marriage.  Too much commitment and accountability for their taste.

When you accountable to God..... being accountable to man doesn't really matter to you.

Its becoming increasingly true that being accountable to God will put on the "bad side" of most local churches. I think too much of God to lower my standard to be accountable to them.

Abraham did just fine without being accountable to some "name it, claim it" authority. He was called the "friend of God". Not the "friend of the congregation".

Paul said that all Asia had turned away from him. I'll gladly take solace in reproach.

Corporate worship is imprinted all through the Bible for the community of God's remnant.  Isolationism is the retreat of a mind rationalizing away Scriptures that gets in the  way.

I never said anything against corporate worship. What does corporate worship have to do with church membership? I don't flash my member card to attend service and worship God.
 

ALAYMAN

Well-known member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
76
Points
48
praise_yeshua said:
I never said anything against corporate worship. What does corporate worship have to do with church membership? I don't flash my member card to attend service and worship God.

Mea culpa, I misread you.

I revert back to the accountability statement.  A good many anti-membership people don't like to be held to the covenant pledge(s) of a local body.  It's the same mentality that some folk have in regards to rules and authority in general, like showing up to work "for the man".  Some are more prone to be lone-wolf types that like less structure.
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
ALAYMAN said:
praise_yeshua said:
I never said anything against corporate worship. What does corporate worship have to do with church membership? I don't flash my member card to attend service and worship God.

Mea culpa, I misread you.

I revert back to the accountability statement.  A good many anti-membership people don't like to be held to the covenant pledge(s) of a local body.  It's the same mentality that some folk have in regards to rules and authority in general, like showing up to work "for the man".  Some are more prone to be lone-wolf types that like less structure.

Funny how you mention "covenant pledge".....

Every time I see one of those posted in some church somewhere...... I can't help but think of how the "New Covenant" isn't GOOD ENOUGH for them.

It certainly is for me. Why isn't the "New Covenant" written blood.... good enough for you?
 

ALAYMAN

Well-known member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
76
Points
48
praise_yeshua said:
ALAYMAN said:
praise_yeshua said:
I never said anything against corporate worship. What does corporate worship have to do with church membership? I don't flash my member card to attend service and worship God.

Mea culpa, I misread you.

I revert back to the accountability statement.  A good many anti-membership people don't like to be held to the covenant pledge(s) of a local body.  It's the same mentality that some folk have in regards to rules and authority in general, like showing up to work "for the man".  Some are more prone to be lone-wolf types that like less structure.

Funny how you mention "covenant pledge".....

Every time I see one of those posted in some church somewhere...... I can't help but think of how the "New Covenant" isn't GOOD ENOUGH for them.

It certainly is for me. Why isn't the "New Covenant" written blood.... good enough for you?

That's a tad bit reductionistic.  It's like saying "I love God with all my heart, and my neighbor as myself, so I'm going to disregard what my brothers actually think is the right course of action for us as a faith community".  Membership has privileges, but also responsibilities.
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
ALAYMAN said:
praise_yeshua said:
ALAYMAN said:
praise_yeshua said:
I never said anything against corporate worship. What does corporate worship have to do with church membership? I don't flash my member card to attend service and worship God.

Mea culpa, I misread you.

I revert back to the accountability statement.  A good many anti-membership people don't like to be held to the covenant pledge(s) of a local body.  It's the same mentality that some folk have in regards to rules and authority in general, like showing up to work "for the man".  Some are more prone to be lone-wolf types that like less structure.

Funny how you mention "covenant pledge".....

Every time I see one of those posted in some church somewhere...... I can't help but think of how the "New Covenant" isn't GOOD ENOUGH for them.

It certainly is for me. Why isn't the "New Covenant" written blood.... good enough for you?

That's a tad bit reductionistic.  It's like saying "I love God with all my heart, and my neighbor as myself, so I'm going to disregard what my brothers actually think is the right course of action for us as a faith community".  Membership has privileges, but also responsibilities.

Not reductionistic at all. You just want to "add to it". You know you do.

Membership has what privilege?

It was said that B.R. Lakin pastored tens of thousands at Cadle Tabernacle and never required one to be a member.
 

ALAYMAN

Well-known member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
76
Points
48
praise_yeshua said:
Membership has what privilege?

Voting, for one.  Or do you allow any person who shows up to make policy at your church(s)?

p_y said:
It was said that B.R. Lakin pastored tens of thousands at Cadle Tabernacle and never required one to be a member.

Lakin ain't my final authority. ;)
 

praise_yeshua

New member
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
4,347
Reaction score
1
Points
0
ALAYMAN said:
Voting, for one.  Or do you allow any person who shows up to make policy at your church(s)?

Yeah. I found that in the Scripture just the other day....  ::)

I generally don't get involved in such things. My vote usually just makes people mad. Either way, I'll just move on if they don't care about what God cares about.

Lakin ain't my final authority. ;)

I knew that. Your pastor might be..... :)
 

Ransom

Beclowner of unseen treasures
Staff member
Administrator
Doctor
Registered
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
8,293
Reaction score
212
Points
63
"Accountability to God" means never having to say I'm sorry I set up that unauthorized personal communion booth in the foyer.
 
Top