John 3:16

[Tim]

God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life.

 

[Ransom]

Why don't people return to evening service?

Because life is busy enough as it is, not in the least because of countless church programs, and people want to stay home and enjoy an evening with their families.

Why don't people get saved more often?

Dunno. I found the one time quite sufficient, myself.

Why isn't the baptismal used more often?

Again, once per baptismal candidate should suffice.

Why are we not helping the poor?

Better question: Why are you not helping the poor?

Why is the Church stuck?

Too many obese people weighing it down?

 

[bgwilkinson]

In the message below the preacher presents a message of leaving the past behind and moving toward a victorious church. He asks the questions: Why don't people return to evening service? Why don't people get saved more often? Why isn't the baptismal used more often? Why are we not helping the poor? Why is the Church stuck?

He goes on to give his reasons: No respect toward the pastoral authority, lack of interest in Church, gossip, no prayer life, anger with change, no interest in soul winning, turning an eye to the poor, no desire to praise God ... I suppose all summed up ... complacency in the Church.

I sat silent as he preached this message. I wasn't sure how to react. I felt anger, guilt ... I didn't go forward and I didn't raise my hand. I sat still.

I ask myself ... Is God in control? Is God sovereign? Isn't salvation of the Lord? Isn't the Holy Spirit the one to convict? Is this bully preaching? What happened to doctrine ... why is this man yelling at me?

Or ... is this brother just concerned and really desires to see people move toward God? Misplaced passion perhaps?

Or is he taking me down a familiar road? A road and place I was at a few years ago ... a place called Legalism. Funny thing about that word - you can't always place it.

So ... I sneak into the forum and ask some old friends to help me recognize what is going on at my Church.

http://byfaithinchrist.com/good_questions.mp3

In the 90s at FBCH we had a big promotion to have 25,000 baptisms in one year.

We claimed that we did it.

Had baptisteries set up all over the church property. They went on at all times of the day.

I had a class of bus kids. Two of them had been saved and baptized 10 times over the span of the promotion. Now I don't think they ever did accept Christ as Savior, but these two guys counted for 20 baptisms of the 25,000. Ask your pastor if being saved 10 times is enough.

In those days we were all about the numbers. Now I believe we did have people that were saved but many more were not but were still added to the membership, yes unsaved members, but they were baptized.

Now to some of your questions, this is what I thought as I read.

He asks the questions:

Why don't people return to evening service? They probably don't want to hear any more complaining like they heard in the morning service.

Why don't people get saved more often? Maybe the pastor is preaching his opinion not the Bible.

Why isn't the baptismal used more often? Because not many are getting saved and you don't baptize the unsaved. You should not baptize the unsaved even to puff up your statistics.

Why are we not helping the poor? Use Jesus as your example not the pastor.

Why is the Church stuck? Pastor stuck on pastoral authority not Christ's authority.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Or ... is this brother just concerned and really desires to see people move toward God? Misplaced passion perhaps?

Or is he taking me down a familiar road? A road and place I was at a few years ago ... a place called Legalism. Funny thing about that word - you can't always place it.

If you question the motives of the speaker, then IMO you needed all or part of the message.

Good grief.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In the message below the preacher presents a message of leaving the past behind and moving toward a victorious church. He asks the questions: Why don't people return to evening service? Why don't people get saved more often? Why isn't the baptismal used more often? Why are we not helping the poor? Why is the Church stuck?

He goes on to give his reasons: No respect toward the pastoral authority, lack of interest in Church, gossip, no prayer life, anger with change, no interest in soul winning, turning an eye to the poor, no desire to praise God ... I suppose all summed up ... complacency in the Church.

I sat silent as he preached this message. I wasn't sure how to react. I felt anger, guilt ... I didn't go forward and I didn't raise my hand. I sat still.

I ask myself ... Is God in control? Is God sovereign? Isn't salvation of the Lord? Isn't the Holy Spirit the one to convict? Is this bully preaching? What happened to doctrine ... why is this man yelling at me?

Or ... is this brother just concerned and really desires to see people move toward God? Misplaced passion perhaps?

Or is he taking me down a familiar road? A road and place I was at a few years ago ... a place called Legalism. Funny thing about that word - you can't always place it.

So ... I sneak into the forum and ask some old friends to help me recognize what is going on at my Church.

http://byfaithinchrist.com/good_questions.mp3

Anyone that starts a message like this with "pastoral authority" being the first thing mentioned......

Well. they are tell you exactly what's wrong with their church and its pastoral authority.......

God is the one with the authority. A pastor either follows God or he doesn't. He has not authority in of himself. If he doesn't follow God..... kick him out.

Either way, no pastor is a go between with God. We have one advocate with the Father.... and its not your pastor.

Welcome back Timmy.

 

[prophet]

Or ... is this brother just concerned and really desires to see people move toward God? Misplaced passion perhaps?

Or is he taking me down a familiar road? A road and place I was at a few years ago ... a place called Legalism. Funny thing about that word - you can't always place it.

If you question the motives of the speaker, then IMO you needed all or part of the message.

This is absolutely wrong.

The Spirit of God tells you when someone who is speaking is not speaking for Him.

The real problem?

We don't have all of the prophets in the Assembly judge every word said by another, and correct what is wrong when it is their turn.

We say "Amen" to every point, rather than at the end of the Assembly, when all have agreed that everything that was said was Scripturally correct.

You are part of the bullying problem.

If I had you as a counselor, I would've been there til 2012, defending JS the whole way.

Truly stupid advice, you gave here!

Haklo

 

[prophet]

In the message below the preacher presents a message of leaving the past behind and moving toward a victorious church. He asks the questions: Why don't people return to evening service? Why don't people get saved more often? Why isn't the baptismal used more often? Why are we not helping the poor? Why is the Church stuck?

He goes on to give his reasons: No respect toward the pastoral authority, lack of interest in Church, gossip, no prayer life, anger with change, no interest in soul winning, turning an eye to the poor, no desire to praise God ... I suppose all summed up ... complacency in the Church.

I sat silent as he preached this message. I wasn't sure how to react. I felt anger, guilt ... I didn't go forward and I didn't raise my hand. I sat still.

I ask myself ... Is God in control? Is God sovereign? Isn't salvation of the Lord? Isn't the Holy Spirit the one to convict? Is this bully preaching? What happened to doctrine ... why is this man yelling at me?

Or ... is this brother just concerned and really desires to see people move toward God? Misplaced passion perhaps?

Or is he taking me down a familiar road? A road and place I was at a few years ago ... a place called Legalism. Funny thing about that word - you can't always place it.

So ... I sneak into the forum and ask some old friends to help me recognize what is going on at my Church.

http://byfaithinchrist.com/good_questions.mp3

1. The man is probably wrong in his church leadership doctrine.

2.His pride is beginning to drive people away, so he tries to bully those that remain in to feeling bad about not wanting to hear from the no-longer-little-in-his-own-eyes Saul.
It isn't that they lose interest in church, it is that they lose interest at being a second class citizen, content to follow a peer.

3. The whole idea that someone should "walk an aisle" and grovel at the feet of the speaker, in order to "get right with God" is completely ridiculous, and Protestant in origin.
Show me that in our instruction book.

It wouldn't matter if everyone present had a renewed zeal for God, souls, and the poor, the idea that God picked out one man to represent Him to that Assembly would throw cold water on any fire that kindled.

Haklo

 

[praise_yeshua]

Its all about POWER. The guy is looking to make a power play.

When you face issues like this...... do two things

Look to find who is wanting power and who is desperately looking to influence others. EGO trips are always about power and influence.