Leadership Seminars

treasure_unseen

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"Leadership" seminars are largely just another way of taking your money while getting you away from studying the Scriptures for yourself. They want you to follow them while selling their merchandize and making a "roadie" of you.

Do you desire to be a leader? Then that is probably your problem.

First there is only One real leader and He desires for you to have a intimate relationship with HIM. Second, all the leaders of the Church are dead. They've been dead for many centuries. Good news though. We have THEIR WORDS..... left behind for you to get to know. You need Jesus for this. Not some.... "somebody".... looking to sell you books and to expand their ministry on the back of your efforts. Don't make life easy for these people. Keep your money. Give to the poor and needy. Give to the "least of these".

There no more LEADERS left. The eyes and ears of the Church of God have long passed into history. We WAIT for the return of our true LEADER. You can know Him personally. Intimately..... and you don't need THEM to tell you how. It is rather obvious they care more about their own success than they do YOU or Jesus Christ.

Really leaders gave their very LIVES, as servants, to YOU. These people only take.

They have NOTHING, you can't read nor study for yourself. They have NOTHING that demands your allegiance.

Leadership Seminar? Yeah. I can find that in the Scriptures and it will not cost me a trip to Vegas nor make me a slave of men.
 

tmjbog

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"Leadership" seminars are largely just another way of taking your money while getting you away from studying the Scriptures for yourself. They want you to follow them while selling their merchandize and making a "roadie" of you.

Do you desire to be a leader? Then that is probably your problem.

First there is only One real leader and He desires for you to have a intimate relationship with HIM. Second, all the leaders of the Church are dead. They've been dead for many centuries. Good news though. We have THEIR WORDS..... left behind for you to get to know. You need Jesus for this. Not some.... "somebody".... looking to sell you books and to expand their ministry on the back of your efforts. Don't make life easy for these people. Keep your money. Give to the poor and needy. Give to the "least of these".

There no more LEADERS left. The eyes and ears of the Church of God have long passed into history. We WAIT for the return of our true LEADER. You can know Him personally. Intimately..... and you don't need THEM to tell you how. It is rather obvious they care more about their own success than they do YOU or Jesus Christ.

Really leaders gave their very LIVES, as servants, to YOU. These people only take.

They have NOTHING, you can't read nor study for yourself. They have NOTHING that demands your allegiance.

Leadership Seminar? Yeah. I can find that in the Scriptures and it will not cost me a trip to Vegas nor make me a slave of men.
Treasure's guidance on "real leadership" not to be mistaken with all those other men out there teaching on leadership.
 

treasure_unseen

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Treasure's guidance on "real leadership" not to be mistaken with all those other men out there teaching on leadership.

I'm not asking for money. Not selling books. I'm not leading anyone. I just appeal to the facts of the Scriptures and ask that every man do the same. You're the one following everyone you find as if they're going to be promote to be their next "vice president". You're the epitome of "man worship".
 

tmjbog

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I'm not asking for money. Not selling books. I'm not leading anyone. I just appeal to the facts of the Scriptures and ask that every man do the same. You're the one following everyone you find as if they're going to be promote to be their next "vice president". You're the epitome of "man worship".
So your opinion is that you are the only one teaching leadership that is not trying to sell books or profit? I'm sure even you have to realize how crazy that makes you sound. Nope don't want to vp of anything.
 

treasure_unseen

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So your opinion is that you are the only one teaching leadership that is not trying to sell books or profit? I'm sure even you have to realize how crazy that makes you sound. Nope don't want to vp of anything.

I'm not teaching others to lead. I'm doing the opposite. I said there are no leaders left. Your lies just keep coming.....It is rather obvious you desire promotion. That is why you keep moving around looking for it. I'm sure you'll find someone that will tell how wonderful you are soon. Hopefully they will not take too much of your money and time due God.
 

tmjbog

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I'm not teaching others to lead. I'm doing the opposite. I said there are no leaders left. Your lies just keep coming.....It is rather obvious you desire promotion. That is why you keep moving around looking for it. I'm sure you'll find someone that will tell how wonderful you are soon. Hopefully they will not take too much of your money and time due God.
Any promotion I get would only lead to me leading more spreadsheets and numbers ,not people-your insanity just keeps coming. What do mean "keep moving around" - I've been at the same church for 8 years? My wife tells me how wonderful I am-not really looking for praise anywhere else.
 

Ransom

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Yawn.

Schismatic gotta schismat.
 

illinoisguy

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I'm not sure what leadership seminars we are talking about, but here are some leadership seminars to stay away from:

david hyles greatest men Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jim Krall, World’s Greatest Men
david hyles
 

tmjbog

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I like the "worlds greatest men" one. Two of the three speakers were teenagers. It's interesting how many of the current hyles type churches recognize how crazy some of their self labeling sounds. Many do a better job in the marketing department even if they still hold to the same attitudes.
 

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The whole concept of "leadership" as practiced in modern-day fundamentalist churches needs to be reexamined.

"But look up the word “lead” in a dictionary and you’ll find definitions like “the first or foremost place,” being “at the head of” and “to control a group of people.” Leadership doesn’t mean motherhood and apple pie. It means being in charge." - Peter Beinart, in New York Times.

Is that what we need in our churches? "But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant." - Matthew 20:25-27.
 

tmjbog

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The whole concept of "leadership" as practiced in modern-day fundamentalist churches needs to be reexamined.

"But look up the word “lead” in a dictionary and you’ll find definitions like “the first or foremost place,” being “at the head of” and “to control a group of people.” Leadership doesn’t mean motherhood and apple pie. It means being in charge." - Peter Beinart, in New York Times.

Is that what we need in our churches? "But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant." - Matthew 20:25-27.
It's easy (and kind of fun) to blame the leaders themselves, but in many cases they are just giving the congregation what they want. An all knowing pastor fits into the IFB everything is black or white way of thinking. Rather than turning to the Bible and prayer you can just ask the pastor what to do.
 

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Yes, that's true. Some IFB congregations expect their pastors to be arrogant, abusive bullies. As a result, men who are naturally arrogant, abusive bullies are attracted to the profession of IFB pastor, and the problem becomes self-perpetuating. Of course, not all IFB pastors are like that. Some are genuinely in it to serve, not to domineer and lord it over the people. May their tribe increase, and may the lay people have discernment to tell the difference, and to support the servants and stay away from the bullies.
 

treasure_unseen

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Yes, that's true. Some IFB congregations expect their pastors to be arrogant, abusive bullies. As a result, men who are naturally arrogant, abusive bullies are attracted to the profession of IFB pastor, and the problem becomes self-perpetuating. Of course, not all IFB pastors are like that. Some are genuinely in it to serve, not to domineer and lord it over the people. May their tribe increase, and may the lay people have discernment to tell the difference, and to support the servants and stay away from the bullies.

Regardless of demeanor, the local church doesn't need a boss. There is only ONE boss. The local church needs servants. Servants don't boss. They lead by example and they mentor others. That need can be filled with many in a local assembly. Not one person to "rule them all".
 

tmjbog

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Regardless of demeanor, the local church doesn't need a boss. There is only ONE boss. The local church needs servants. Servants don't boss. They lead by example and they mentor others. That need can be filled with many in a local assembly. Not one person to "rule them all".
Except someone has to be in charge of a given area. Sure you could hold congregational votes on big issues. Do you really want a congregational vote on whether we buy #2 or #3 pencils? Or on whether we pay the utility bill on the 2nd or the 4th day of the month? In my secular job my boss exhibits servant leadership. He's concerned with what we need to do our jobs better, what education opps would be helpful, if we are overloaded and need to share some work. At the same time though, he's the one in charge.
 

treasure_unseen

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Except someone has to be in charge of a given area. Sure you could hold congregational votes on big issues. Do you really want a congregational vote on whether we buy #2 or #3 pencils? Or on whether we pay the utility bill on the 2nd or the 4th day of the month? In my secular job my boss exhibits servant leadership. He's concerned with what we need to do our jobs better, what education opps would be helpful, if we are overloaded and need to share some work. At the same time though, he's the one in charge.

The local church shouldn't be collecting money that needs to be spent on pencils. Take away the ungodly teaching of the local church being the storehouse and receiving the tithe, then you wouldn't have silly little brains like you've got trying to rule the local church.

You're really a heavy thinker aren't you? I bet world's change in that witches' cauldron of a brain you've got.
 

tmjbog

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The local church shouldn't be collecting money that needs to be spent on pencils. Take away the ungodly teaching of the local church being the storehouse and receiving the tithe, then you wouldn't have silly little brains like you've got trying to rule the local church.

You're really a heavy thinker aren't you? I bet world's change in that witches' cauldron of a brain you've got.
What no pencils in Treasure's church-are they satanic now? I can imagine a new comer at Treasure's ideal church. "Hey man I want to take notes can I borrow a pencil?" - get out of here you heathen what I kind of church do you think this is? Is a church in Treasure's world allowed to have paper? or heat? Just curious, since your talking to me again (I knew you would).

Just for informational purposes a condescending attitude is common among those who suffer from delusions of Grandeur.
 

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T/U... Lancaster Baptist Church is having a leadership conference. You might want to reserve your seat now!
 

tmjbog

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T/U... Lancaster Baptist Church is having a leadership conference. You might want to reserve your seat now!
He'll first need to verify that no pencils will be involved.
 

illinoisguy

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Dave Hyles on leadership - allegedly Dave taught something like this in the FBC-Hammond youth department, as quoted by Vic Nischik in "The Wizard of God," p. 91:

"If you want someday to be a good leader, you must first learn to be a good follower! For God to be able to use you, you must give your leadership nothing less than unquestionable loyalty and obedience and some day become a leader yourself. If I order you, like the sergeant did the colonel, to retrieve your spittle out of the dirt, YOU MUST DO IT! God will someday hold the leader accountable if the order was inappropriate, but will always bless you for obeying. Total and unquestioned obedience to leadership is the best way I know for you to succeed!"

This may not be an exact verbatim quote of what Dave said, but it is typical of what is taught in many authoritarian IFB and non-IFB churches. If you hear any teaching remotely like this anywhere, in your church or any leadership conference, put down your borrowed #2 pencil, look for the nearest exit sign and RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!
 

Ransom

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"Hey man I want to take notes can I borrow a pencil?" - get out of here you heathen what I kind of church do you think this is? Is a church in Treasure's world allowed to have paper? or heat?

Or pastors to listen to while taking notes?
 
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