MacArthur's 'Strange Fire' conference

[rsc2a]

Thoughts?

 

[subllibrm]

Thoughts?

I like peanuts.  ???

 

[BALAAM]

Thoughts?

Now I ain't much for thinkin, so I don't do it often"
But I think this thread, is headed right for a coffin.

 

[Holy Mole]

macarthur?...... "strange fire"?.....  ???....

was that before or after he said "i shall return"?.. :-\.....

8)

Could be that somebody put something "strange" in his pipe...

 

[pastorryanhayden]

I haven't followed it but my brother tells me it was quite comical.  He said that (and I haven't confirmed this) Mark Driscoll came passing out copies of his "resurgence" book and had to be escorted out by security.  Which is hilarious, but pretty immature.
I am a cessasionist, so I agree with the major premise of the conference.  I don't think that God still gives miraculous sign gifts to people.  That does not mean that God doesn't still work miracles through people, I just think it's isolated, usually in a place where the gospel has not been named, and that the charismatic movement in America does not represent that.  Guess that makes me a leaky cessasionist.

 

[abp]

Oh interesting that Driscoll was there...the man who claims that God gave him a pornographic vision of his wife, then fiancé, having sex with someone else. Right, I bet he is a cessationalist as well? He is a man of god, so I guess just Mark can have "prophetic" visions? Sorry to hijack...not a Driscoll fan, I'll throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Holy Mole]

macarthur?...... "strange fire"?.....  ???....

was that before or after he said "i shall return"?.. :-\.....

8)

Could be that somebody put something "strange" in his pipe...

hmmmm ... i wonder if it was "strange" because it never died.....  but just ..faded away....  :

8)

True enough. It could also be a conference on "e cigarettes". MacArthur would have considered that "strange fire".

 

[rsc2a]

I haven't followed it but my brother tells me it was quite comical.  He said that (and I haven't confirmed this) Mark Driscoll came passing out copies of his "resurgence" book and had to be escorted out by security.  Which is hilarious, but pretty immature.

He did, and while funny, I agree it was immature.

[quote author=pastorryanhayden]I am a cessasionist, so I agree with the major premise of the conference.  I don't think that God still gives miraculous sign gifts to people.  That does not mean that God doesn't still work miracles through people, I just think it's isolated, usually in a place where the gospel has not been named, and that the charismatic movement in America does not represent that.  Guess that makes me a leaky cessasionist.[/quote]

MacArthur said that charismatics worshiped demons. He completely abused Scripture. And he said they haven't contributed anything of value to Christianity. Of course, some have pointed out that many of the "stream of sound teaching, sound doctrine, sound theology, that runs all the way back to the Apostles" MacArthur pointed to as shining beacons of doctrinal soundness, he would label heretical over other issues (and vice versa).

One commentary on MacArthur's comments.

Notable quotes

• "Those who claim to experience the power of the Holy Spirit are following patterns of those who blaspheme His name. Attributing things to the Holy Spirit that He didn’t do, say, authorize, is a very serious crime. In some ways the Charismatics have worshiped the calf"
• "Jesus said you’ve attributed the works that I’ve done to Satan. It’s fair to say that the reverse is happening in many places in the Charismatic movement. They are attributing to the Holy Spirit the works of Satan."
• "No movement based on an orthodox Gospel has done more damage to the church. I fear that its success comes not from its connection to the truth, but from its connection to the kingdom of darkness. It is “successful” because it’s promising what unregenerate sinners already want."
• "By contrast, Reformed theology, sound doctrine, is not a haven for false teachers."
• "Nothing coming from the Charismatic movement has provided recovery or strengthening of the biblical Gospel. Nothing has preserved truth and sound doctrine. It has only produced distortion, confusion, and error."
  

 

[Just John]

I think the "I know everything" smugness of MacArthur's alma mater may be showing. I agree there have been horrendous abuses in portions of the Charismatic Movement (if you choose to call it that still). But I do not think it's any more fair to lump all charismatics with every "word of faith" Kenneth Copeland than to lump all IFB's with Jack Hyles whether one is a cessationist or not.

As for Driscoll, he was no doubt stirring the pot. They didn't like the fact he was handing out his book and pressing the flesh. And for Honey Badger, Driscoll is not a cessationist.

Here's a good article from CT that Ed Stetzer linked to on his blog discussion of charismatics.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/november/33.42.html?start=1

It features the editor (who is also a pastor) of the main charismatic magazine, Charisma, and his crusade to clean up some of the abuses in the charismatic movement which should show evidence that all aren't crazy or "worshiping demons". (Perhaps he is the "Pastor Haydon" of the Charismatic movement.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

 

[subllibrm]

... BASSENCO ....

She loves me.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

My thoughts exactly.
Charisma Magazine's criticism has been all too sparse and 'flakey' compared to the lunacy in the movement. The magazine still accepts ads and columns from some criticized by their former editor.
Thankful that MacArthur has the clout and the backbone to draw attention to the issue.

 

[rsc2a]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

My thoughts exactly.
Charisma Magazine's criticism has been all too sparse and 'flakey' compared to the lunacy in the movement. The magazine still accepts ads and columns from some criticized by their former editor.
Thankful that MacArthur has the clout and the backbone to draw attention to the issue.

What MacArthur is doing is weighing the best in his camp* with the worst in the continuationist camp. It's intellectually dishonest and nothing more than a giant logical fallacy that doesn't even remotely prove the point he is trying to make. At least Sproul made his argument from Scripture instead of one giant ad hom/appeal to authority argument.

One could do the same thing by talking about the Grudems and Carsons and Chandlers and Pipers and compare them to the Gipps and Ruckmans and Schaaps and Phelps of cessationism...and it would have about as much validity.

* I asterisk'ed this because quite a few of the people MacArthur cited in his cessationist hall-of-fame were not actually cessationists at all.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

My thoughts exactly.
Charisma Magazine's criticism has been all too sparse and 'flakey' compared to the lunacy in the movement. The magazine still accepts ads and columns from some criticized by their former editor.
Thankful that MacArthur has the clout and the backbone to draw attention to the issue.

What MacArthur is doing is weighing the best in his camp* with the worst in the continuationist camp. It's intellectually dishonest and nothing more than a giant logical fallacy that doesn't even remotely prove the point he is trying to make. At least Sproul made his argument from Scripture instead of one giant ad hom/appeal to authority argument.

One could do the same thing by talking about the Grudems and Carsons and Chandlers and Pipers and compare them to the Gipps and Ruckmans and Schaaps and Phelps of cessationism...and it would have about as much validity.

* I asterisk'ed this because quite a few of the people MacArthur cited in his cessationist hall-of-fame were not actually cessationists at all.

If Mac only knew...I'm sure he'd be crushed!
;D

 

[Bob H]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would "distance themselves" from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

I guess that "S" word is still out of bounds   

 

[Just John]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

My thoughts exactly.
Charisma Magazine's criticism has been all too sparse and 'flakey' compared to the lunacy in the movement. The magazine still accepts ads and columns from some criticized by their former editor.
Thankful that MacArthur has the clout and the backbone to draw attention to the issue.

Drawing attention to it and supposedly saying (I did not hear if first-hand but have heard several people report it) that Charismatics (alluding to "all") worship devils is two very different things. Again, that's analogous to saying all IFB's are Jack Schaap followers. Just not true nor credible.

 

[goodnight]

Thoughts?
  I was there all 3 days. I mainly went to get fully frustrated with Macs' tongues interpretation. Frustrated enough to finish a manuscript that I had started many years ago on that subject. I was not disappointed. RC's lecture(taped) on the 4 Pentecosts was so outside the context of the passages he used I almost fell over in my chair. Penningtons comments were no better and I don't think he appreciated it when I challenged him a bit after his lecture. A third guy(Nathan I think) also spoke on tongues and made the first two guys seem logical. Because he was quite a bit younger I decided not to challenge him. Besides he was only giving what was in the book Strange Fire. Other than that it was really a great conference.

 

[Izdaari]

MacArthur (except the one in Aleshanee's picture -- that one was at least a good general, if also a tower of ego) is not someone I'd pay attention to. He's an arrogant, smug know-it-all who is, as pointed out, being intellectually dishonest by comparing his camp's best with their camp's worst. What if we compared Gordon D. Fee (a respected and responsible AoG theologian) with Jack Hyles (a blaspheming heretic and pedophilic philandering jailbird)? That'd be about the same thing in mirror image.

But it is true there are a lot of abuses on the charismatic side, and they should clean up their act.

So says Izzy, the ex-Pentecostal post-charismatic Episcopalutheran.

 

[prophet]

I enjoyed our former FFFer's (Phil Johnson, Mac's right hand man) dialogue with one of the Charismatic movement's leaders (found on Christian Post) where he basically stated that if the good charismatics would distance themselves from the folk like Todd Bentley and Rodney Brown that the conferences like Macarthur's wouldn't be as necessary.  That's what we hear constantly from the folk here on the FFF, that if the IFBs would clean up their own house then there wouldn't be a need for folk like BASSENCO and Company to do their thing.  Seems if that's a legitimate rationale for IFB expose then Macarthur's call for cleaning house is legit.

My thoughts exactly.
Charisma Magazine's criticism has been all too sparse and 'flakey' compared to the lunacy in the movement. The magazine still accepts ads and columns from some criticized by their former editor.
Thankful that MacArthur has the clout and the backbone to draw attention to the issue.

What MacArthur is doing is weighing the best in his camp* with the worst in the continuationist camp. It's intellectually dishonest and nothing more than a giant logical fallacy that doesn't even remotely prove the point he is trying to make. At least Sproul made his argument from Scripture instead of one giant ad hom/appeal to authority argument.

One could do the same thing by talking about the Grudems and Carsons and Chandlers and Pipers and compare them to the Gipps and Ruckmans and Schaaps and Phelps of cessationism...and it would have about as much validity.

* I asterisk'ed this because quite a few of the people MacArthur cited in his cessationist hall-of-fame were not actually cessationists at all.

I must hat tip this post.

Anishinabe

 

[ALAYMAN]

Drawing attention to it and supposedly saying (I did not hear if first-hand but have heard several people report it) that Charismatics (alluding to "all") worship devils is two very different things. Again, that's analogous to saying all IFB's are Jack Schaap followers. Just not true nor credible.

Could you cite the source where he said all Charismatics worship devils?