Maybe a topic that's not been discussed here EVER before......maybe, pastoral candidate assessment.

[ALAYMAN]

Our church is currently going through a pastor search and this upcoming week we will have a man come and candidate for that senior pastor position. My question...

In your opinion, as a conscientious voting church member, how many times would you like to hear the candidate preach and teach before you would be comfortable with assessing his call to preach and pastor your church?

 

[Foghorn]

3-4 times.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Unless he is a novice, he should have a traceable history. He may have YouTube videos of his preaching. Recommendations from other pastors you know and trust. The "popularity contest" method is many times a poor way of selecting a man. Of course, you'll do the background/credit checks before you have in, I'm sure. As a side note, if you are providing any type of parsonage, make sure it is in 100% livable condition. Someplace YOU would love to live in.

 

[ALAYMAN]

3-4 times.

Care to elaborate on why?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Unless he is a novice, he should have a traceable history. He may have YouTube videos of his preaching. Recommendations from other pastors you know and trust. The "popularity contest" method is many times a poor way of selecting a man. Of course, you'll do the background/credit checks before you have in, I'm sure. As a side note, if you are providing any type of parsonage, make sure it is in 100% livable condition. Someplace YOU would love to live in.

That's a REALLY good start as to the entirety of the vetting process for a pulpit committee, and I appreciate the keen insight. But assuming you're the average pew-sitter and not responsible for the things that the Pulpit Committee properly does when producing a viable candidate for consideration, how does the "layman" determine how much they need to hear the prospective candidate before they are sufficiently aware of what they need to properly assess the man?

 

[Bob Jones V]

Our church is currently going through a pastor search and this upcoming week we will have a man come and candidate for that senior pastor position. My question...

In your opinion, as a conscientious voting church member, how many times would you like to hear the candidate preach and teach before you would be comfortable with assessing his call to preach and pastor your church?

I'd like to hear him 3-4 times. But I want to know his character.

1. Is he a man who loves the word of God. Is he a spiritual man. Does he have a real, intimate personal devotional life (I don't like that word devotional, but it's a good summary). In other words, does he spend time reading, meditating, praying daily.

2. Does he love his wife and is she a happy woman?

 

[ALAYMAN]

I'd like to hear him 3-4 times. But I want to know his character.

1. Is he a man who loves the word of God. Is he a spiritual man. Does he have a real, intimate personal devotional life (I don't like that word devotional, but it's a good summary). In other words, does he spend time reading, meditating, praying daily.

2. Does he love his wife and is she a happy woman?

I like it.

I know this is subjective, but what do you think you (additionally, somebody not quite trained in the ministry such as you) would hear that helps you to limit (or conversely, need) 3-4 times?

And, the part about knowing his character, from the pew-sitter perspective, how would you ascertain that about the man? (I have ideas, but don't want to bias you with my thoughts)

 

[Bob Jones V]

I like it.

I know this is subjective, but what do you think you (additionally, somebody not quite trained in the ministry such as you) would hear that helps you to limit (or conversely, need) 3-4 times?

And, the part about knowing his character, from the pew-sitter perspective, how would you ascertain that about the man? (I have ideas, but don't want to bias you with my thoughts)

Preaching, I want to hear if he preaches Expository messages. Can he handle the Bible. Does he only preach easy messages, or hard passages. Does he give extraneous application that is not related to the passage? For example, some preachers will say read your bible, pray and witness as applications of any passage.

I would want a question and answer period, like, have a dinner where you sit around and ask him questions. Or submit them to the edlers or deacons and have him sit in front of the people and answer them. Ask him. Do you read and meditate on the scriptures daily? How important is that to you? How important is prayer?

 

[Foghorn]

Care to elaborate on why?

Sure. In most cases you may not be able to know much by one sermon, and I’d think the first sermon lays out the ground, so to speak . Sermon two, he has already gone through the meeting of people, seeing the cheers and or boos. (Seeing, not hearing) and his sermon can be better discerned now.
Sermon 3? He may have already done so but if not, it’s this one where he starts to establish himself as a pastor you want or don’t want. You should be able to see how much prep he has put into the sermon. His care and love for people should shine more now.
4th sermon? Well if it not the guy you want there doesn’t have to be a forth.
If he is the guy, this forth is his first.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Preaching, I want to hear if he preaches Expository messages. Can he handle the Bible. Does he only preach easy messages, or hard passages. Does he give extraneous application that is not related to the passage? For example, some preachers will say read your bible, pray and witness as applications of any passage.

I would want a question and answer period, like, have a dinner where you sit around and ask him questions. Or submit them to the edlers or deacons and have him sit in front of the people and answer them. Ask him. Do you read and meditate on the scriptures daily? How important is that to you? How important is prayer?

To the bolded above, yep, a dead give-away that a man is not handling the word honestly but rather shoe-horning an agenda (even though it is a sincerely intended virtuous agenda as the end goal, it shows sloppy and careless coverage of the whole of the counsel).

 

[ALAYMAN]

Sure. In most cases you may not be able to know much by one sermon, and I’d think the first sermon lays out the ground, so to speak . Sermon two, he has already gone through the meeting of people, seeing the cheers and or boos. (Seeing, not hearing) and his sermon can be better discerned now.
Sermon 3? He may have already done so but if not, it’s this one where he starts to establish himself as a pastor you want or don’t want. You should be able to see how much prep he has put into the sermon. His care and love for people should shine more now.
4th sermon? Well if it not the guy you want there doesn’t have to be a forth.
If he is the guy, this forth is his first.

I don't disagree with what I think you are getting at, but for specificity, could you hang some meat on those bones? What type of discerning are you getting throughout that process of evaluation that leads you from the "groundwork" to the "yep, that's my pastor"?

 

[Foghorn]

I don't disagree with what I think you are getting at, but for specificity, could you hang some meat on those bones? What type of discerning are you getting throughout that process of evaluation that leads you from the "groundwork" to the "yep, that's my pastor"?

Good question.

I’d like to be sure the pastor is reformed. Him being an Amil would be nice.
Agrees with the reformed statements of faith like the WCF.
Oh and it would be great if he was a Paedobaptists

 

[voicecrying]

And, the part about knowing his character, from the pew-sitter perspective, how would you ascertain that about the man? (I have ideas, but don't want to bias you with my thoughts)

Take him golfing. Does he play it where it lies? How does he act when he misses a putt?

 

[abcaines]

Totally different track here...

I would prefer a model of a pastor training his replacement so when he moves on, the replacement steps in and continues, no search committee needed.

Now that would be a perfect scenario; reality is quite a bit muddier than that. The problem with a search committee taking applications as it were, is the potential of ending up with a hireling. Even with the best of hirelings, it takes time to establish the relationship that is needed; where the pastor is a grafted part of the congregation (of that ever happens). Another problem with a hireling is he (and his wife) can put up a good front for more than 3-4 messages.

Also, a shyster can quickly divine what sort of candidate is being sought and taylor his presentation to match expectation.

Also, another key issue is, can a congregation afford to hire someone so they don't have to hold down a second job this having divided interests? This is more theoretical because larger than average congregations are the ones solvent enough to fully support their candidates.

 

[abcaines]

Take him golfing. Does he play it where it lies? How does he act when he misses a putt?

You may have meant that tongue in cheek but there is much wisdom in what you said.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Good question.

I’d like to be sure the pastor is reformed. Him being an Amil would be nice.
Agrees with the reformed statements of faith like the WCF.
Oh and it would be great if he was a Paedobaptists

Wouldn't those things be more guaranteed to be discernable via the doctrinal statement that a church might require of him, rather than hope they are revealed through a random sermon(s)?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Totally different track here...

I would prefer a model of a pastor training his replacement so when he moves on, the replacement steps in and continues, no search committee needed.

Now that would be a perfect scenario; reality is quite a bit muddier than that. The problem with a search committee taking applications as it were, is the potential of ending up with a hireling. Even with the best of hirelings, it takes time to establish the relationship that is needed; where the pastor is a grafted part of the congregation (of that ever happens). Another problem with a hireling is he (and his wife) can put up a good front for more than 3-4 messages.

Also, a shyster can quickly divine what sort of candidate is being sought and taylor his presentation to match expectation.

Also, another key issue is, can a congregation afford to hire someone so they don't have to hold down a second job this having divided interests? This is more theoretical because larger than average congregations are the ones solvent enough to fully support their candidates.

I agree with your first sentence COMPLETELY. For all intents and purposes *I* was that guy, but circumstances with caregiving for my mother realistically prevent that possibilty.

There is a real difficulty with getting to the bottom of a potential candidate's true character, but if a Pulpit Committee does their due diligence in the reference checking and vetting of the individual's track record in the ministry most of that can be avoided as a pitfall. However, you are indeed onto something IMNSHO, the average congregant is at a disadvantage in this "vetting" process because they are relying upon the P.C. to do the things that y'all have mentioned in this thread, and all they have to go on is the sermon style and substance that they hear. Bob's idea of a general Q&A before the congregation is a decent way to allow them to hear some biographical and doctrinal back-story with their own ears. IFB X-Files was also on the right track in regards to assessing a wider array of content and style of preaching via the digital age where you can often sample multiple sermons. At the end of the day it's a pretty subjective process for the person in the pew who only judges the totality of what it means to pastor based on a very limited sample size of a sermon or two.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Our church is currently going through a pastor search and this upcoming week we will have a man come and candidate for that senior pastor position. My question...

In your opinion, as a conscientious voting church member, how many times would you like to hear the candidate preach and teach before you would be comfortable with assessing his call to preach and pastor your church?

You should know much more about the man aside from whether or not he can "Hoe the Corn!"

It would be really great if the candidate is well known of and well-spoken of in the congregation.

The ideal scenario is to have a plurality of elders for the sake of stability. If the senior "Teaching" pastor is looking to step back, step down and/or retire, a succession plan should be put in place as soon as practically possible. Best scenario I can think of is to bring a new "Teaching Elder" on board about two years ahead of the anticipated transition. Let him serve in an "Associate Pastor" role where he and his family can me acquainted with the congregation and become part of the Church family. From there, he can assume more and more of the "Pastoral duties" and transition over to the primary teaching position thus allowing the preceding pastor to transition over to whatever new role he will be filling (Enjoying retirement, fishing in Florida, Etc.).

I have zero respect for a Senior Pastor saying he "Feels Called" over to a new congregation and completely blindsiding the congregation he is presently responsible for! If a pastor desires to retire, the Church should be planning for this years in advance!

I was in a Church some years ago where the senior pastor was resigning. He was pretty much being run off after a Church split. My wife and I tried to help the best we could but quickly came to the conclusion that their problem was not our problem and we were not part of a solution. We have been in our current Church for the last three years and last we heard, the old Church still does not have a permanent pastor going on five years now!

I would say if you absolutely have to start "Cold" with someone right off the street, you should find someone and let them first serve in an "Interim" capacity before being installed permanently. Hopefully you have a good "Pulpit Committee" who will weed out the charlatans because they will be popping out of the woodwork. If you really need to, consider an "Intentional Interim" program. Chris Huff is involved in this and you can find him on FB should you could talk with him about this.

 

[abcaines]

Ya. If I didn't stress this... My ideas are mostly theoretical. They only happen in a perfect world.

I can only speak theoretically because I've never been on a search committee and the few times I have been through a "change of command" the incoming pastor was groomed into the position by his predecessor.

Not that this model is foolproof; I know of one very prominent case where the replacement totally went contrary his predecessor's training.

Edit: I've discovered the above is a very inaccurate assessment. The division is among a group of churches and stems from pastors and their interpretation of the deceased's philosophy.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Good question.

I’d like to be sure the pastor is reformed. Him being an Amil would be nice.
Agrees with the reformed statements of faith like the WCF.
Oh and it would be great if he was a Paedobaptists

That totally depends upon the Church's doctrinal position and constitutional bylaws.

Someone taking a "Reformed" position should not expect to be taken into consideration by a "Free-Will Baptist" congregation.

If the Church holds to the Westminster Confession of Faith, they should (and likely would) expect any pastoral candidate to give strict adherence.

For certain IFBx types who say the "King James Bible is MY statement of faith BLESS GAWD!", they should actually READ IT and learn to articulate what the King James Bible says and write a statement of faith accordingly,

Most Paedobaptists know better than to candidate for a pastoral position in an BAPTIST Church although there are many similarities between Reformed Baptists and PCA Presbyterians (WCF and 1689 London Baptist Confession). A Church like the one Alayman attends would likely run you off and turn the "Chicken Hawks" loose on those of your liking!