More text from Pastor

[Just me]

 

[movedon]

I could vomit reading this. I'm so disgusted!! How could anyone let him stay behind a pulpit!! something bad is going to happen to WHBC for sure! there is no way this can keep going on!

 

[Walt]

I could vomit reading this. I'm so disgusted!! How could anyone let him stay behind a pulpit!! something bad is going to happen to WHBC for sure! there is no way this can keep going on!

As I've said before, this doesn't seem like texts between a pastor and someone he is counseling; it reads more like texts between a young man who is interested in a young lady, and is trying to get her interested in him.

It is inappropriate for a pastor to text things like this.

Having said all of that, it is merely a bad judgment... if the texts were talking about secret meetings at hotels, and so on, THAT would be beyond the pale.

 

[Tanner]

I could vomit reading this. I'm so disgusted!! How could anyone let him stay behind a pulpit!! something bad is going to happen to WHBC for sure! there is no way this can keep going on!

As I've said before, this doesn't seem like texts between a pastor and someone he is counseling; it reads more like texts between a young man who is interested in a young lady, and is trying to get her interested in him.


It is inappropriate for a pastor to text things like this.

Having said all of that, it is merely a bad judgment... if the texts were talking about secret meetings at hotels, and so on, THAT would be beyond the pale.

It appears that he was headed toward the secret meetings.  Starting with see me after church and keep it to yourself. 

 

[StephParker]

These are disgusting.  I feel for this young lady.  In no way did she ever encourage his attention, but he just wouldn't let up.  And his wife?  How can she read these (if she truly did) and be okay with it?

 

[movedon]

if you live in okc you know exactly where the Vineyards live. someone should print these off and mail them to Melissa or post it to her facebook! I wonder what she would think about when she reads these or even the kids for that matter. Someone needs to see these. i honestly think this is the first time these have gotten out so we need to do something about it.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

if you live in okc you know exactly where the Vineyards live. someone should print these off and mail them to Melissa or post it to her facebook! I wonder what she would think about when she reads these or even the kids for that matter. Someone needs to see these. i honestly think this is the first time these have gotten out so we need to do something about it.

Go for it.

 

[TruthBearer]

Mail them to Channel 9 in care of Amanda Taylor maybe she would make a human interest story out of this.

 

[Tanner]

Why would he be asking her to talk to another young lady?  It appears as he is brining her behind the curtain of his ministry.  Just like the other text he was asking her opinion on a leader of some sort. 

If he gets her into his "ministry" he can trap her and make her feel his ministry is on her shoulders. 
If she takes him down, she takes down the whole ministry, God would not be happy and punish her.    This would be a lot of pressure on her and he would be able to do what he wants.   

I am so proud of this young lady for getting this out before the predator got her.

 

[Just me]

I am so proud of this young lady for getting this out before the predator got her.

Absolutely!!!  She saw him coming.  Good on her!!

 

[Excelsior]

ICK! Ick-ick-ick!!!

It is so obvious what is going on here.

Walt, I would respectfully disagree. I believe that these texts are beyond acceptable for a pastor. Anyone who sends such unacceptable stuff to a woman is left in the pulpit, then that church is asking for a huge problem.

First of all, the young woman seems to try to deflect by brevity. "Yes," "Thank you," other very short comments to counter his over the top compliments.

If you found these texts on your wife's phone, would you think that this man was just sincerely being complimentary or would you think he was after your woman. If I found these texts on my daughter's phone and they were from someone in a position of authority over her, I would confront that person in a flash. She would then be removed from under his authority and his texts would be made public. Why? Because this is so inappropriate it hurts. There is nothing innocent there.

I don't know if men see the sleeze in those posts as clearly as I do, but it's obvious.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I don't know if men see the sleeze in those posts as clearly as I do, but it's obvious.

Unfortunately, the right people have not seen these texts. Otherwise, they would not have been dismissed as merely "crossing a line." They would have been seen for what they are, predatory posturing.

 

[Walt]

ICK! Ick-ick-ick!!!

It is so obvious what is going on here.

Walt, I would respectfully disagree. I believe that these texts are beyond acceptable for a pastor. Anyone who sends such unacceptable stuff to a woman is left in the pulpit, then that church is asking for a huge problem.

That's fine; respectful disagreement can lead to education.  No one has stated that the texts are acceptable. I believe that they are wrong, and are too familiar for a pastor; Tom Vineyard admitted that he had sinned.  The question has been if these posts would disqualify a man  from serving as a pastor.  It seems to me that many people assume that know what was in the man's mind and assume that this was leading to some greater sin, and are not judging the posts alone.

First of all, the young woman seems to try to deflect by brevity. "Yes," "Thank you," other very short comments to counter his over the top compliments.

Yes, I noticed that, too.  I gathered that she was uncomfortable, and trying to deflect his interest.

If you found these texts on your wife's phone, would you think that this man was just sincerely being complimentary or would you think he was after your woman.

I would approach the man at the beginning and insist that he cease such posts.

If I found these texts on my daughter's phone and they were from someone in a position of authority over her, I would confront that person in a flash.

Agreed; so would I.

She would then be removed from under his authority and his texts would be made public. Why? Because this is so inappropriate it hurts. There is nothing innocent there.

Here is where we differ.  If he agreed to stop, I would be okay, but I'd keep a close watch on it.  A repeat attempt would trigger what you said above.

I don't know if men see the sleeze in those posts as clearly as I do, but it's obvious.

Possibly not...

 

[Just me]

That's fine; respectful disagreement can lead to education.  No one has stated that the texts are acceptable. I believe that they are wrong, and are too familiar for a pastor; Tom Vineyard admitted that he had sinned.  The question has been if these posts would disqualify a man  from serving as a pastor.  It seems to me that many people assume that know what was in the man's mind and assume that this was leading to some greater sin, and are not judging the posts alone.

Tom admitted he had sinned.  Wow that is hard to admit.  To bad he did not say what sin he had specifically done.  All have sinned and for hm to say that and not say the specific is ridiculous.  It does not take a man to say "I have sinned" for we all have. 

I believe he knows that well and it is all part of the deception.

So, you also rightfully said the question is whether he should remain in the pulpit.  That is the main contention in all of this.  I personally feel that any man who is texting a young lady. No wait two young ladies.  Oh yeah and complimenting and making a dozen other young ladies feel uncomfortable enough that several quit their jobs at WHBC is breaking the "qualifications" that he himself preaches and teaches.

But honestly, if you do not agree then that is fine.  Obviously you are in the minority on the FFF with this one.

Lastly, you mentioned that many are presuming to know Toms thoughts and intentions.  You probably are right on that point but I say that is how WHBC works and what WHBC teaches by example.  You never having been there so would not know, of course.  It is a place built upon telling on each other to authority and feeling like you can't move the wrong way without being called out by authority.  Everyone there judges each other whether they admit it or not.  Everyone thinks I am glad I am not doing what so and so is doing.  Authority makes you do that and then makes you feel like you are better then the other guy because you don't do what they do.  He who obeys the rules best wins at WHBC!!  Within that minds set we all see Tom for what he is.  We all see Tom for what he was trying to do even though we cannot know his mind.  But we can evaluate his actions and when we do he is found wanting and not qualified to be the pastor.

Ladies on the FFF like Excelsior can read the text and pick clearly up on the intent of the words.  But even if he did not have any ulterior motive he was just wrong for texting ladies and making a bunch of them feel like they need to quit their employment.

For me knowing the "man" all of his adult life and working and standing side by side with him makes me understand what he was doing.  His history speaks volumes!!

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Here is where we differ.  If he agreed to stop, I would be okay, but I'd keep a close watch on it.  A repeat attempt would trigger what you said above.

So he just moves on to the next young lady...Posting them publicly warns others of his behavior.

 

[Walt]

That's fine; respectful disagreement can lead to education.  No one has stated that the texts are acceptable. I believe that they are wrong, and are too familiar for a pastor; Tom Vineyard admitted that he had sinned.  The question has been if these posts would disqualify a man  from serving as a pastor.  It seems to me that many people assume that know what was in the man's mind and assume that this was leading to some greater sin, and are not judging the posts alone.

Tom admitted he had sinned.  Wow that is hard to admit.  To bad he did not say what sin he had specifically done.  All have sinned and for hm to say that and not say the specific is ridiculous.  It does not take a man to say "I have sinned" for we all have. 

Well, true, but he was a little more particular that he became to familiar with a young college student in what he was sending.  That's a little more specific than the generic "I am a sinner" statement.

I believe he knows that well and it is all part of the deception.

... and that is your right.

So, you also rightfully said the question is whether he should remain in the pulpit.  That is the main contention in all of this.  I personally feel that any man who is texting a young lady. No wait two young ladies.  Oh yeah and complimenting and making a dozen other young ladies feel uncomfortable enough that several quit their jobs at WHBC is breaking the "qualifications" that he himself preaches and teaches.

As I've said else where, when his history is considered apart from this one case, that changes things substantially.

But honestly, if you do not agree then that is fine.  Obviously you are in the minority on the FFF with this one.

Certainly among those that are posting on this topic.  Personally, I think we are too quick to judge and think ill of a man.  One quote I read many years ago spoke to me - it went something like: We should always hope for the possibility of truth rather than proclaiming the probability of error.

Are people saying that there is NEVER a case where an older man can talk/text with a young girl in an avuncular or fatherly way?  I know I've told young people that although they have more energy than I do, they should take care to get sufficient rest.  I've told some women that they look nice - does that mean I have ulterior motives?  I think we are too quick to assume the worst - if someone posted a rumor on here that Shelton Smith was caught in a hotel with one of his secretaries, most people would leap to assume it's true.

Lastly, you mentioned that many are presuming to know Toms thoughts and intentions.  You probably are right on that point but I say that is how WHBC works and what WHBC teaches by example.  You never having been there so would not know, of course.  It is a place built upon telling on each other to authority and feeling like you can't move the wrong way without being called out by authority.  Everyone there judges each other whether they admit it or not.  Everyone thinks I am glad I am not doing what so and so is doing.  Authority makes you do that and then makes you feel like you are better then the other guy because you don't do what they do.  He who obeys the rules best wins at WHBC!!  Within that minds set we all see Tom for what he is.  We all see Tom for what he was trying to do even though we cannot know his mind.  But we can evaluate his actions and when we do he is found wanting and not qualified to be the pastor.

I may not have been there, but I have been in a similar place, where tattling on others' sins was encouraged, and fellowshipping between members was discouraged because it might lead to "gossip".  In reality, that's how those in power stay there by discouraging open discussions.

Ladies on the FFF like Excelsior can read the text and pick clearly up on the intent of the words.  But even if he did not have any ulterior motive he was just wrong for texting ladies and making a bunch of them feel like they need to quit their employment.

For me knowing the "man" all of his adult life and working and standing side by side with him makes me understand what he was doing.  His history speaks volumes!!

And I respect your opinion because you do know his history.

 

[Just me]

Sorry Walt but you are on the wrong side of this one.  45 families and three fourths of his staff walked away after his _______, you fill in the blank.  Most of those who left WHBC were also people who have known Tom since he was a teenager and know of his history/record in these things.

That speaks volumes my friend.

Now to those remaining, WHY???????????

 

[cast.sheep]

Walt reminds me of me before I stepped away from blind loyalty and saw things as they were.
As an outsider, let me say that his texts were not innocent. He was fishing for something...and it wasn't godly or even wholesome. Period.


That's all folks!

 

[Walt]

Sorry Walt but you are on the wrong side of this one.  45 families and three fourths of his staff walked away after his _______, you fill in the blank.  Most of those who left WHBC were also people who have known Tom since he was a teenager and know of his history/record in these things.

That speaks volumes my friend.

I think there has been a misunderstanding here.  Given his history, I do believe that Tom should have been removed as pastor, and that the people were right to walk.  If he was making 14 or so women uncomfortable with his texts to them or behavior around them, something is wrong somewhere.

What I object to is the assumption that any compliment to a young woman by an older man, or text messages of encouragement automatically mean that the older man has designs on the younger woman's virtue.

I would have a problem if a married staff member texted such things to my daughter.  At the same time, if she and a boyfriend had been dating for a while, and they exchanged such texts, I don't think I'd have a problem with that -- they are indicative of souls being "knit together"

I hope that this makes it clear.

 

[Just me]

Sorry Walt but you are on the wrong side of this one.  45 families and three fourths of his staff walked away after his _______, you fill in the blank.  Most of those who left WHBC were also people who have known Tom since he was a teenager and know of his history/record in these things.

That speaks volumes my friend.

I think there has been a misunderstanding here.  Given his history, I do believe that Tom should have been removed as pastor, and that the people were right to walk.  If he was making 14 or so women uncomfortable with his texts to them or behavior around them, something is wrong somewhere.

What I object to is the assumption that any compliment to a young woman by an older man, or text messages of encouragement automatically mean that the older man has designs on the younger woman's virtue.

I would have a problem if a married staff member texted such things to my daughter.  At the same time, if she and a boyfriend had been dating for a while, and they exchanged such texts, I don't think I'd have a problem with that -- they are indicative of souls being "knit together"

I hope that this makes it clear.

Then we all agree on Tommy Boy.

As to what you are saying I believe we all would agree also.  I would not assume off one text that a man was after a young lady either.  But I do think a wise man would let those compliments/encouragements go from him to his wife to the lady he is complimenting/encouraging.  Especially in todays world.