New Podcast / Upcoming Documentary Exposing Abuse in IFB churches.

The Underground Church

PreacherBoysDoc

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Preacher Boys is a project that includes an ongoing podcast and an upcoming 2021 documentary film that is shedding light on decades of abuse within the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement.

You can listen to the first two episodes of the podcast here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/preacher-boys-podcast/id1493726980

Website content is still being developed, but you can find all related social links at preacherboysdoc.com.

If anyone has any resources that would be useful on this mission, I?d love to connect with you - send an email to preacherboysdoc@gmail.com or just comment in the thread.
 

TheRealJonStewart

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Wow that interview of West Coast Baptist graduate is good. I know of a graduate that worked for one of the Irmler brothers in Northern California. He quit because of the systematic abuse that was occurring against the staff and volunteers from the Irmlers like guilt-tripping, manipulation, and micromanaging. The Irmlers graduated from West Coast Baptist and Josh Irmler is the poster-boy there coming to chapel every year. Their dad used to teach a class there.

I don't remember which Irmler brother or if it was Mark Irmler (the dad) but I'll find out and let you know and perhaps you can interview this former member/staff.
 

Twisted

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I'll be waiting for the docudrama's about abuse in the Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian groups.

It's sad that someone would spend their time finding disgruntled students (there are plenty!) to "share their story".

I held out for 25 minutes (can I get an award?) but can't take any more.

Hey!  Why not find some girls that were beaten at the Roloff's homes?  That would make some good stuff!
 

Ransom

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Twisted said:
I'll be waiting for the docudrama's about abuse in the Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian groups.
Why not go ahead and produce one, instead of whining about your ox being gored?

Oh, yeah, that's right. You can't, because you're a know-nothing bozo whose only real talents are complaining and writing clickbait posts titled "So-and-so IS RIGHT!!!"
 

Twisted

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Ransom said:
Twisted said:
I'll be waiting for the docudrama's about abuse in the Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian groups.
Why not go ahead and produce one, instead of whining about your ox being gored?

Oh, yeah, that's right. You can't, because you're a know-nothing bozo whose only real talents are complaining and writing clickbait posts titled "So-and-so IS RIGHT!!!"
Hey!  Those clickbait posts are forum treasures!
 

TheRealJonStewart

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TheRealJonStewart said:
Wow that interview of West Coast Baptist graduate is good. I know of a graduate that worked for one of the Irmler brothers in Northern California. He quit because of the systematic abuse that was occurring against the staff and volunteers from the Irmlers like guilt-tripping, manipulation, and micromanaging. The Irmlers graduated from West Coast Baptist and Josh Irmler is the poster-boy there coming to chapel every year. Their dad used to teach a class there.

I don't remember which Irmler brother or if it was Mark Irmler (the dad) but I'll find out and let you know and perhaps you can interview this former member/staff.
@PreacherBoysDoc

Please let me know if you would like more details. I am trying to gather more information and sources on the Irmlers.
 

Twisted

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TheRealJonStewart said:
TheRealJonStewart said:
Wow that interview of West Coast Baptist graduate is good. I know of a graduate that worked for one of the Irmler brothers in Northern California. He quit because of the systematic abuse that was occurring against the staff and volunteers from the Irmlers like guilt-tripping, manipulation, and micromanaging. The Irmlers graduated from West Coast Baptist and Josh Irmler is the poster-boy there coming to chapel every year. Their dad used to teach a class there.

I don't remember which Irmler brother or if it was Mark Irmler (the dad) but I'll find out and let you know and perhaps you can interview this former member/staff.
@PreacherBoysDoc

Please let me know if you would like more details. I am trying to gather more information and sources on the Irmlers.
Would you like Joshs' phone number?
 

TheRealJonStewart

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TheRealJonStewart said:
TheRealJonStewart said:
Wow that interview of West Coast Baptist graduate is good. I know of a graduate that worked for one of the Irmler brothers in Northern California. He quit because of the systematic abuse that was occurring against the staff and volunteers from the Irmlers like guilt-tripping, manipulation, and micromanaging. The Irmlers graduated from West Coast Baptist and Josh Irmler is the poster-boy there coming to chapel every year. Their dad used to teach a class there.

I don't remember which Irmler brother or if it was Mark Irmler (the dad) but I'll find out and let you know and perhaps you can interview this former member/staff.
@PreacherBoysDoc

Please let me know if you would like more details. I am trying to gather more information and sources on the Irmlers.
@PreacherBoysDoc

Would you like the information or do I contact you through other means?
 

Tarheel Baptist

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Twisted said:
I'll be waiting for the docudrama's about abuse in the Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian groups.

It's sad that someone would spend their time finding disgruntled students (there are plenty!) to "share their story".

I held out for 25 minutes (can I get an award?) but can't take any more.

Hey!  Why not find some girls that were beaten at the Roloff's homes?  That would make some good stuff!
That's longer than I could stand Saluter MacGruder Mctavish Dundee's drivel.
 

BaptistMan

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I know that WCBC grad. We were both on tour groups there. Some of the stuff he said was true and some was subjective based on personal feelings/experiences. The emphasis on treating the pastor almost like a king and being ultra loyal was taught by some professors, but not all. Some were more objective in their thinking. I didn't feel like you had to be at a certain level of spiritual achievement to be loved or recognized either. There were a few professors who maybe had their "pet" students and showed some favoritism. And sometimes, staff kids seemed to resent non-Lancaster people and get away with anything. It is what it is. I loved being at West Coast, and I would do it again. It's got its flaws, sure; but it's a great place.
 
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UGC

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Preacher Boys is a project that includes an ongoing podcast and an upcoming 2021 documentary film that is shedding light on decades of abuse within the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement.

You can listen to the first two episodes of the podcast here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/preacher-boys-podcast/id1493726980

Website content is still being developed, but you can find all related social links at preacherboysdoc.com.

If anyone has any resources that would be useful on this mission, I?d love to connect with you - send an email to preacherboysdoc@gmail.com or just comment in the thread.
Sounds interesting for sure. There are some solid IFB Pastors I've heard recently preach against false balance in many IFB churches, and how due to the lack of organizational oversight some are able to be legalistic without reproof, even banning their members from wearing flip flops in their day to day lives.

I always say that since many IFB churches have sound doctrine, Satan can't fool them there, so he'll attack them somewhere else. Imo it's with rigid cultural norms that make it difficult for people who might have grown up entirely separate from the IFB culture to make this giant leap to join a church without fear of going through a major initial hazing process.

I feel truly blessed God gave me such diverse experience in both my work and family life to get to know different cultures and watch how they honor God, as God looks on the heart, not on the suit and tie. While I can wear one and probably have a 2-hour long doctrinal conversation with any IFB Pastor, I think it would be an interesting time taking that same Pastor along on a mission trip to various places around the world with different cultures just to show him all that heady knowledge ain't the only thing ya need out there.

-James
 

Walt

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I know that WCBC grad. We were both on tour groups there. Some of the stuff he said was true and some was subjective based on personal feelings/experiences. The emphasis on treating the pastor almost like a king and being ultra loyal was taught by some professors, but not all. Some were more objective in their thinking. I didn't feel like you had to be at a certain level of spiritual achievement to be loved or recognized either. There were a few professors who maybe had their "pet" students and showed some favoritism. And sometimes, staff kids seemed to resent non-Lancaster people and get away with anything. It is what it is. I loved being at West Coast, and I would do it again. It's got its flaws, sure; but it's a great place.
It's one thing to respect and admire your leader; it's another thing when either the leader explicitly teachers (or allows/encourages staff and members to teach) that the pastor is somehow untouchable, and it is our job to obey his every desire because he only wants what's best for us. This is over the line, and puts the pastor in the place of God... and the above is a near-quote from messages I have heard from staff. One favorite message of these types is when David was longing for a drink of water from the well, and David's men risked their lives to get him a drink. I've heard multiple messages that we should be prepared to listen to our "man of God's" every desire and do nearly everything to satisfy it.

I'm so thankful to be out of that mess; we have a balanced pastor who has told people on multiple occasions that he is not to be followed like God, and that saved people have the same Holy Spirit, and members don't need the pastor telling them what to do.

My main issue with West Coast is not the attitude toward the leaders, but that they seem to be leading the charge into contemporary music.

Golden State - it does have those leadership issues where the pastor is an absolute ruler to be followed.
 

Walt

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Sounds interesting for sure. There are some solid IFB Pastors I've heard recently preach against false balance in many IFB churches, and how due to the lack of organizational oversight some are able to be legalistic without reproof, even banning their members from wearing flip flops in their day to day lives.

I always say that since many IFB churches have sound doctrine, Satan can't fool them there, so he'll attack them somewhere else. Imo it's with rigid cultural norms that make it difficult for people who might have grown up entirely separate from the IFB culture to make this giant leap to join a church without fear of going through a major initial hazing process.

I feel truly blessed God gave me such diverse experience in both my work and family life to get to know different cultures and watch how they honor God, as God looks on the heart, not on the suit and tie. While I can wear one and probably have a 2-hour long doctrinal conversation with any IFB Pastor, I think it would be an interesting time taking that same Pastor along on a mission trip to various places around the world with different cultures just to show him all that heady knowledge ain't the only thing ya need out there.

-James
I "Like" this, but I wanted to say: Well said!
 
  • TRUTH!
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illinoisguy

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Was this at WCBC that the staff teaches that church members should be wiling to risk their lives for every whim of the Mannagod? If so, it would be good if this could be documented and publicized, so that prospective WCBC students and Lancaster BC members would be encouraged to steer clear of that place.

I think that Matthew Poole had the right take on that passage (2 Samuel 23:15-17). David "was far from desiring or expecting that any of his men should hazard their lives to procure it [the well water]. . . . 'He would not drink thereof,' lest by gratifying himself on such terms, he should seem either to set too high a price upon the satisfaction of his appetite, or too low a price on the lives of his soldiers, or should encourage others to the like vain-glorious and foolish attempts." If this misuse and twisting of God's Word takes place at WCBC on even an occasional basis, then I say "Houston, we have a problem" even though they are not located in Houston.

We've come a long way, baby, since the days when Christian clergy were the servants of their congregations (Matthew 20:26-27, 2 Corinthians 4:5). Now it's the other way around. Pass me another cup of that poisoned Kool-Aid. Thank you, sir, may I have another?
 

Walt

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Was this at WCBC that the staff teaches that church members should be wiling to risk their lives for every whim of the Mannagod? If so, it would be good if this could be documented and publicized, so that prospective WCBC students and Lancaster BC members would be encouraged to steer clear of that place.

I think that Matthew Poole had the right take on that passage (2 Samuel 23:15-17). David "was far from desiring or expecting that any of his men should hazard their lives to procure it [the well water]. . . . 'He would not drink thereof,' lest by gratifying himself on such terms, he should seem either to set too high a price upon the satisfaction of his appetite, or too low a price on the lives of his soldiers, or should encourage others to the like vain-glorious and foolish attempts." If this misuse and twisting of God's Word takes place at WCBC on even an occasional basis, then I say "Houston, we have a problem" even though they are not located in Houston.

We've come a long way, baby, since the days when Christian clergy were the servants of their congregations (Matthew 20:26-27, 2 Corinthians 4:5). Now it's the other way around. Pass me another cup of that poisoned Kool-Aid. Thank you, sir, may I have another?
Last paragraph: Indeed!

First paragraph: I've never heard this, so I don't know. If my memory is correct, Paul Chappel was the youth pastor under Jack Trieber when the 100% for Hyles nonsense was going around. I also know that Jack Trieber has preacher on Psalm 23 stating that "the pastor is my shepherd"... but I've never heard of that kind of pastor exaltation at WCBC.
 

BaptistMan

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It's one thing to respect and admire your leader; it's another thing when either the leader explicitly teachers (or allows/encourages staff and members to teach) that the pastor is somehow untouchable, and it is our job to obey his every desire because he only wants what's best for us. This is over the line, and puts the pastor in the place of God... and the above is a near-quote from messages I have heard from staff. One favorite message of these types is when David was longing for a drink of water from the well, and David's men risked their lives to get him a drink. I've heard multiple messages that we should be prepared to listen to our "man of God's" every desire and do nearly everything to satisfy it.

I'm so thankful to be out of that mess; we have a balanced pastor who has told people on multiple occasions that he is not to be followed like God, and that saved people have the same Holy Spirit, and members don't need the pastor telling them what to do.

My main issue with West Coast is not the attitude toward the leaders, but that they seem to be leading the charge into contemporary music.

Golden State - it does have those leadership issues where the pastor is an absolute ruler to be followed.
I'm not sure how aware he was that some staff leaders said comments like that every now and then. It wasn't like they taught whole class lectures on how to please your pastor or anything like that. Just every now and then you would hear one of those comments and be like, hmmm. I don't remember any of them saying he was untouchable, but more along the lines of being supportive of your pastor. Not blind loyalty, but trying to support the pastor and his vision that God has given him. The only comment I ever had a problem with really was the one referenced on the podcast, "The pastor's request should be treated like a royal command." Back then I never thought much about it. In hindsight, that was definitely not a wise thing to say. But it never felt "cult-ish" or a like a compound to me.

Even at the church I'm working at now, you occasionally hear things along those lines that make you pause and go, "Huh?" But I feel like our pastor is very down to earth and humble as well. He constantly affirms his love for us and shows it in various ways. And he's not above getting in the pulpit and telling the people about something he shouldn't have said or something he shouldn't have thought. I admire someone who can get up and be real like that....someone who can admit that he is human like everyone else.

As far as the music at WCBC/LBC goes, it does seem to be more of a "soft" contemporary feel. As long as Pastor Chappell is there, I couldn't see them going full on with drums, black walls, smoke machines, etc. I think that all hinges on who the future leadership will be.
 

Walt

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I'm not sure how aware he was that some staff leaders said comments like that every now and then. It wasn't like they taught whole class lectures on how to please your pastor or anything like that. Just every now and then you would hear one of those comments and be like, hmmm. I don't remember any of them saying he was untouchable, but more along the lines of being supportive of your pastor. Not blind loyalty, but trying to support the pastor and his vision that God has given him. The only comment I ever had a problem with really was the one referenced on the podcast, "The pastor's request should be treated like a royal command." Back then I never thought much about it. In hindsight, that was definitely not a wise thing to say. But it never felt "cult-ish" or a like a compound to me.
If you're talking about LBC/WCBC, I agree; I don't have the impression that he pushes the idea that the pastor is your guru. This is in stark contrast to other churches, in which the membership is encouraged to seek the "man of God's" (pastor's) opinion about everything, and do whatever he says.


As far as the music at WCBC/LBC goes, it does seem to be more of a "soft" contemporary feel. As long as Pastor Chappell is there, I couldn't see them going full on with drums, black walls, smoke machines, etc. I think that all hinges on who the future leadership will be.
He may draw the line somewhere, but an appetite has been created, and the next leadership will almost certainly go further down that path.
 

brianb

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Wow that interview of West Coast Baptist graduate is good. I know of a graduate that worked for one of the Irmler brothers in Northern California. He quit because of the systematic abuse that was occurring against the staff and volunteers from the Irmlers like guilt-tripping, manipulation, and micromanaging. The Irmlers graduated from West Coast Baptist and Josh Irmler is the poster-boy there coming to chapel every year. Their dad used to teach a class there.

I don't remember which Irmler brother or if it was Mark Irmler (the dad) but I'll find out and let you know and perhaps you can interview this former member/staff.
I'll be waiting for the docudrama's about abuse in the Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian groups.

It's sad that someone would spend their time finding disgruntled students (there are plenty!) to "share their story".

I held out for 25 minutes (can I get an award?) but can't take any more.

Hey! Why not find some girls that were beaten at the Roloff's homes? That would make some good stuff!
Are they including abuse cases that have gone to trial or just about abuse cover-ups? I suppose some of the women who were abused at the Rebekah homes could come out and talk about it but it's been a long time and its been closed for 10 years (almost 20 years in Texas since they moved around after that). Roloff Homes just has an adult addiction ministry now.
 

UGC

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Preacher Boys is a project that includes an ongoing podcast and an upcoming 2021 documentary film that is shedding light on decades of abuse within the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement.
Keep up the good work.

Cool appearance and nice people > nice appearance and cold people any day. Being open-minded is not a sin and being close-minded is not conservative.
 
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