"Preacher Boy" free labor.....

treasure_unseen

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If a laborer is worthy of their heir......

Then why do all these "Leaders" get all this "free labor" from their "preacher boy" followers?

If you really believe a laborer in Christ deserves monetary compensation..... then why are all these young preachers being abused by giving their hard work away free to all these "aged leaders"?

We KNOW it happens. In fact, it happens all the time. You can call it "slave labor" if you want. It is just "slave labor" to the wrong Master......

By the way, I know a man. He does pretty good at dealing with clinical depression. In fact, he is sought out to preach sermons from his experience. He has even written a little "book" on it. A book that.... from his own words.... "has dramatically helped" those who have read it. Even.... potentially to the point of saving lives.

However, this same person. Will not provide that "book" free to anyone. He will offer to pay for it himself..... "if you don't have the money". He sells them when he travels from time to time.....

Do you know why... he does it. It is simple. He believes YOU can afford it and that HE... should get paid for providing it. He will use the verse from the Bible of.... "A laborer is worthy of his hire" to prove it. Problem is, that same man will not apply it equally to others that do things for him. He is not alone. Seems like everyone is doing the same.

For the life of me, I can't understand how valued and lift changing something could be.... and you just don't make a "pdf" of it and give it away. Tell you what, I'll host it for him. Or you can upload to archive.org and let everyone have it..... You just will not get any money for it. Which is WHY.... people like this don't do it.

Freely you have received. Freely give.

Does anyone know where that verse is located in the Bible and who said it? It might be important....
 
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tmjbog

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If a laborer is worthy of their heir......

Then why do all these "Leaders" get all this "free labor" from their "preacher boy" followers?

If you really believe a laborer in Christ deserves monetary compensation..... then why are all these young preachers being abused with give their hard work away free to all these "aged leaders"?

We KNOW it happens. In fact, it happens all the time. You can call it "slave labor" if you want. It is just "slave labor" to the wrong Master......

By the way, I know a man. He does pretty good at dealing with clinical depression. In fact, he is sought out to preach sermons from his experience. He has even written a little "book" on it that.... from his own words.... "has dramatically helped" those who have read it. Even.... potentially to the point of saving lives.

However, this same person. Will not provide that "book" free to anyone. He will offer to pay for it himself..... "if you don't have the money". He sells them when he travels from time to time.....

Do you know why... he does it. It is simple. He believes YOU can afford it and that HE... should get paid for providing it. He will use the verse from the Bible of.... "A laborer is worthy of his hire" to prove it. Problem is, that same man will not apply it equally to others that do things for him. He is not alone. Seems like everyone is doing the same.

For the life of me, I can't understand how valued and lift changing something could be.... and you just don't make a "pdf" of it and give it away. Tell you what, I'll host it for him. Or you can upload to archive.org and let everyone have it..... You just will not get any money for it. Which is WHY.... people like this don't do it.

Freely you have received. Freely give.

Does anyone know where that verse is located in the Bible and who said it? It might be important....
I can't believe it. But I have to believe Treasure will find a way to mess it up. I mostly agree with you on this. I don't have a problem with a pastor making a decent salary. My issue is that the Christian school teachers and assistant pastors are making minimum wage or less. In the FWB world you have some of the churches up in the hills of WV and KY who will only hire bi-vocational pastors.
 

treasure_unseen

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I can't believe it. But I have to believe Treasure will find a way to mess it up. I mostly agree with you on this. I don't have a problem with a pastor making a decent salary. My issue is that the Christian school teachers and assistant pastors are making minimum wage or less. In the FWB world you have some of the churches up in the hills of WV and KY who will only hire bi-vocational pastors.

There you go again. Trying to distract from the real issue.

To answer your separate question....

It is my experienced and firm belief, that a good salary has ruined many a "preacher". They end up with a "job" instead of a ministry. Also, the entire system is so far out of balance, that there are many more "jobs" than there should be. If it would get back to what God wanted. There wouldn't be all this competition among God's little children.
 
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tmjbog

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There you go again. Trying to distract from the real issue.

To answer your separate question....

I'm is my experienced and firm belief, that a good salary has ruined many a "preacher". They end up with a "job" instead of a ministry. Also, the entire system is so far out of balance, that there are many more "jobs" than there should be. If it would get back to what God wanted. There wouldn't be all this competition among God's little children.
Do you have too much crazy going on or are you just not reading the posts. Let me try again I AGREE WITH YOU. Even on the multiple numbers of assistant pastors-I agree.
 

treasure_unseen

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Do you have too much crazy going on or are you just not reading the posts. Let me try again I AGREE WITH YOU. Even on the multiple numbers of assistant pastors-I agree.

You added....

I don't have a problem with a pastor making a decent salary. My issue is that the Christian school teachers and assistant pastors are making minimum wage or less. In the FWB world you have some of the churches up in the hills of WV and KY who will only hire bi-vocational pastors.

I answered that part. I accepted the other.
 

voicecrying

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We were members of a church many years ago that had an A.C.E. school. That was a large source of free labor for cleaning, painting, etc. It got worse as the years went by.
 

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I was an assistant pastor and worked in an ACE school,
was the daily van driver for the school,
Oversaw the sound ministry,
Drove a church bus on Sunday,
taught Sunday School,
led congregational music,
organized all the special music (and sang too)
Led the choir,
in charge of church sanitation,
in charge of bus/van maintenance (3 buses and two vans),
in charge of some of the church publications,
started and taught three classes in our Bible Institute,
responsible for inside church maintenance.
I left a 70K job at Boeing aircraft to make 18K at this church to do all of that.
I almost went mad.
 

illinoisguy

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I don't have a problem with pastors accepting free volunteer labor from "preacher boys" and members, as long as it was freely offered and no one was pressured to do things they didn't want to do. But over the years I have wondered why pastors who believe in the efficacy of door-to-door soulwinning do not hire more Bible college graduates to be "ministers of visitation." John R. Rice stated that door-to-door soulwinning should result in one conversion for every 10 hours on the average.
That means 4 new converts a week in a 40-hour week, or 208 new converts a year - the tithes of those new converts would be more than enough to pay a full-time salary for the visitation ministers, and to hire new ones - each new hire would bring in 208 more converts per year.

So why don't more churches hire people for this ministry? Perhaps they do not really believe that door-to-door soulwinning really works. Or perhaps they prefer to pressure the lay people to go out and do it for free instead of paying someone to do it. Or they can rely on unpaid slave labor from Hyles-Anderson or another nearby Bible college - those kids are actually paying for the privilege of being allowed to go out door-knocking for the Mannagod - such a deal.

As for the churches in West Virginia and Kentucky (and the other 48 states, plenty of IFB as well as FWB churches) that will hire only bi-vocational pastors, I suspect it is not always a matter of pious policy, or being cheap - in some cases, it is a matter of simply not having enough money to pay a full-time salary, even if the willingness to do so is there. And it's only going to get worse - since much of the IFB movement caters mainly to people who want to go back to the world of the 1950s (the dress and hair codes, the music, and the old AV1611) and since that generation is rapidly dying off, the money to support that kind of old-fashioned worship culture is going to keep on drying up.
 

tmjbog

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You added....



I answered that part. I accepted the other.
Well go take it up with these particular churches. I didn't say that a church should have a bi-vocational pastor just citing an example from the other extreme. You ought to travel as a "help" to churches. You could tell them how in your perfect knowledge you have it figured to the penny what the NT permits them to pay their pastors. As a bonus you could go through any pictures the church may have and help them destroy the ones that showing activities that the NT forbids to be photographed. What a blessing awaits those churches.
 

treasure_unseen

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With sadness or joy?

Or was it COVID?

I'm curious why you think the actual circumstance she mentioned didn't cause the problem?

Fact is, this happens all the time. In fact, I have in laws right now that is working for far less than they are worth..... in much the same situations. They're even working second jobs to "make a living".

David Harrison was drawing well over a $100,000 year "pastoring" and who knows what "evangelizing" when he could. All the while being followed around by "preacher boys" providing free labor for HIS marketing campaign.
 

treasure_unseen

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Well go take it up with these particular churches. I didn't say that a church should have a bi-vocational pastor just citing an example from the other extreme. You ought to travel as a "help" to churches. You could tell them how in your perfect knowledge you have it figured to the penny what the NT permits them to pay their pastors. As a bonus you could go through any pictures the church may have and help them destroy the ones that showing activities that the NT forbids to be photographed. What a blessing awaits those churches.

I'm just witnessing to the disparity that exists between them. Many working for free and others getting paid large sums of money to do the same.

I know you want to mock me because you have no meaningful answers to these questions.

This has long existed among YOU and YOU don't care. In fact, you've acted rather cowardly about it. Why are you afraid?
 

tmjbog

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I'm just witnessing to the disparity that exists between them. Many working for free and others getting paid large sums of money to do the same.

I know you want to mock me because you have no meaningful answers to these questions.

This has long existed among YOU and YOU don't care. In fact, you've acted rather cowardly about it. Why are you afraid?
What exactly am I afraid of? Actually I mock you because your hatred for IFB has festered to the point where you see things that are quite benign as crimes against God. There are certain problems within IFB but when you whine and cry about the slightest issue you lose all relevance.
 

treasure_unseen

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What exactly am I afraid of? Actually I mock you because your hatred for IFB has festered to the point where you see things that are quite benign as crimes against God. There are certain problems within IFB but when you whine and cry about the slightest issue you lose all relevance.

They are only slight issues in your eyes. You're trying to down play them because you're weak in the faith. You only know what you been taught by your local master.

The disparity that exists between them shows that they are self centered ego manics that largely care about themselves.

When they teach what they call "the principles of faith"..... they're only really focusing on how it relates to them.

I don't anything from them. In fact, I don't want anything they have. Nothing. I would appear you're still feeding from their slope and loving it.
 

tmjbog

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They are only slight issues in your eyes. You're trying to down play them because you're weak in the faith. You only know what you been taught by your local master.

The disparity that exists between them shows that they are self centered ego manics that largely care about themselves.

When they teach what they call "the principles of faith"..... they're only really focusing on how it relates to them.

I don't anything from them. In fact, I don't want anything they have. Nothing. I would appear you're still feeding from their slope and loving it.
Well by all means keep nitpicking then. When you have all sorts of whiny insignificant complaints just don't expect to be taken seriously.
 

treasure_unseen

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Well by all means keep nitpicking then. When you have all sorts of whiny insignificant complaints just don't expect to be taken seriously.

If it is so "insignificant" then why have your spent thousands of words debating them?

More debate 101....
 

tmjbog

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If it is so "insignificant" then why have your spent thousands of words debating them?

More debate 101....
Because I find it fascinating how similar you are to those you detest. That and the contradiction you present with calling for greater unity in Christianity while at the same time being divisive. If you dig deeper it makes sense, though. Your desire is unity under the Treasure interpretation of the NT (don't blame me, God is the one that put it in the Bible)
 

treasure_unseen

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Because I find it fascinating how similar you are to those you detest.

That is your delusion. They hate me. You know they do. They hate me because I'm not like them.

That and the contradiction you present with calling for greater unity in Christianity while at the same time being divisive.

Again. You naivety is showing. Jesus said that division would come. He promised them. The enemies of a man's house would those of his own. I've never said there wouldn't be division.

If you dig deeper it makes sense, though. Your desire is unity under the Treasure interpretation of the NT (don't blame me, God is the one that put it in the Bible)

How in the world can you say such a thing? I have said I don't want a following. You don't know my name. I'm NOT selling anything and I continually told people to learn directly from God. You ignore these facts to falsely claims such things against me.

You've formed this delusion about me because it is the only defense you have left. You don't really know the Scriptures and you know it.
 
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