Rabid Extremists

Jo

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I'm surprised that I don't see anything on the forum about the recent attack on the Capitol. It's a really big deal. Perhaps, it's buried, and I'm just not seeing it.
I have a friend who says she doesn't watch the news. At this point in time, I trust the news more than I do our current president.
As far right as some of us might be, please tell me you don't agree with what happened.
When I first heard about the riot, it occurred to me that if that had happened and Hilary was at the helm, my right wing friends would be complaining left and right. For now, most of them are silent.
 

ALAYMAN

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No I don't agree with the trespassing rioters. They should be held accountable under the full impact of the law. Every conservative I personally know has said the same.
 

tmjbog

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First, I would need to see the facts. Several videos show police opening the barricades. It's not trespassing if they let you in. If they were doing anything other than peaceful protests I would certainly oppose it. However, back in 2018 when the lefties stormed the senate office buildings the media thought it was cute, not sedition. Those who refused to leave were charged with crowding. Processed on site and released.


 

voicecrying

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The most concerning thing to me is how easily a group of people, apparently only armed with pepper spray, were able to occupy the building when the next 3 in line for the presidency were in the building. No group - Trump supporters, BLM, Antifa, foreign terrorists - should have been able to do that. It seems people in charge either don't provide enough security or intentionally allowed it to happen. Either way, we need answers and we need changes made.
Based on video I've seen of police removing barricades, waving the crowd on, and holding open the doors, I'd say at least some of the police were told to stand down. Now, who gave that order? Was it from Trump's side or was it was from the other side to make Trump and his supporters look bad?
 

illinoisguy

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I am a card-carrying member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and I voted for Trump, but I don't agree with what happened. I have contacted my Senators and Congresshuman to repudiate the violent, seditious takeover of Congress and to demand that all the right-wing terrorists and rioters be punished to the fullest extent of the law. (I heard that the penalty for "sedition" is 20 years in prison. Okay bring it on).
I was never a follower of Rush Limbaugh, but I think all fundamentalists need to disassociate from him as fast and as far as possible, based on the excuses he has been making for the rioters.
Before things get completely out of hand, we need to crack down hard on all the lawless extremists, including Antifa, Black Lives Matter, Proud Boys, Qanon, neo-Nazis, as soon as they are caught breaking any laws.
I hope that we as fundamentalists will not spend years making this "Stop the Steal" nonsense a test of fellowship and fighting each other over it. But we probably will.
 
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brianb

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I definitely don't agree with what they did but other than one police officer there were a few of them who were killed including a woman who was fatally shot in the back of the neck.
 

tmjbog

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I am a card-carrying member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and I voted for Trump, but I don't agree with what happened. I have contacted my Senators and Congresshuman to repudiate the violent, seditious takeover of Congress and to demand that all the right-wing terrorists and rioters be punished to the fullest extent of the law. (I heard that the penalty for "sedition" is 20 years in prison. Okay bring it on).
I was never a follower of Rush Limbaugh, but I think all fundamentalists need to disassociate from him as fast and as far as possible, based on the excuses he has been making for the rioters.
Before things get completely out of hand, we need to crack down hard on all the lawless extremists, including Antifa, Black Lives Matter, Proud Boys, Qanon, neo-Nazis, as soon as they are caught breaking any laws.
I hope that we as fundamentalists will not spend years making this "Stop the Steal" nonsense a test of fellowship and fighting each other over it. But we probably will.
Obviously any violence that occurred was out of line, but sedition is a bit crazy. Were they gonna hold out against the nat'l guard defending their Capital fortress with their flagpoles and Trump hats? Their was no intent to overthrow the govt. Just occupy for an hour or two and voice their displeasure. When the lefties took the senate office building they were charged with crimes such as trespassing and crowding. Seems reasonable, if, they were not allowed to enter by capital police which some videos suggest they were. If you were in the middle of the crowd you probably would have thought this was part of the protest. Once they allowed them to go in I didn't see much of an effort to tell people they were breaking the law or even to tell them to leave.
 

Ransom

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Obviously any violence that occurred was out of line, but sedition is a bit crazy.
Nitpick: "Sedition" is behaviour or speech that incites rebellion against authority. Insurrection is a violent uprising against authority. So I think we're talking about the latter, rather than the former.

Nonetheless, I'm still not so sure you're right. There was a mock gallows set up, and chants of "Hang Mike Pence." (In fact, "Hang Pence" was trending on Twitter afterward.) Threats to lynch the vice president, complete with prop noose? If that doesn't meet the definition of sedition, what does?
 
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TonyHutsonComedian

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The NBA took a knee (no surprise) and LeBron James cried like a baby. Also ESPN said it was ok for Antifa and BLM to burm local business but it wasn't ok to for these radicals to storm the U.S. Capitol.

Now LeBron has already made it clear he wants China to take over the US.
 
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illinoisguy

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I am perfectly content to let the prosecutors and courts define what took place at the Capitol, as to whether or not it was "sedition" or "insurrection" or whatever. As I understand it, it was not "treason" since this uprising was not in conjunction with any foreign power with which we are at war. I am not a lawyer and I will gladly allow wiser minds than myself to decide what is the legal terminology for what takes place when violent thugs storm and take over and loot and vandalize a federal building, while carrying guns, bombs and restraining devices and while attacking police, killing one of them and injuring approximately 60, and while calling for the Vice President of the United States to be hanged, and toting their own portable gallows with them. My main concern is that we as fundamentalist Christians let it be known that we do not endorse, identify with or make excuses for this type of lawless behavior.

"For the love of Mike," I am standing with Mike Pence and the conservative Republican Senators who repudiated the "Stop the Steal" craziness, not with the thugs who want to overturn the election with violence.
 

tmjbog

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Nitpick: "Sedition" is behaviour or speech that incites rebellion against authority. Insurrection is a violent uprising against authority. So I think we're talking about the latter, rather than the former.

Nonetheless, I'm still not so sure you're right. There was a mock gallows set up, and chants of "Hang Mike Pence." (In fact, "Hang Pence" was trending on Twitter afterward.) Threats to lynch the vice president, complete with prop noose? If that doesn't meet the definition of sedition, what does?

Well, after seeing more details over the weekend I'm not sure I was right either. There were at least a handful of folks who probably did meet the standard of sedition and at least in two cases maybe insurrection although they never fired their weapons. From the reports I saw over the weekend the charges I've seen seem to be fitting of the crimes. Guy who took Nancy's podium charged with theft. Others charged with entering a restricted area. I was opposed to charging anyone who may have been just protesting and following the laws with major crimes.
 

voicecrying

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I just finished reading the transcript of Trump's speech. I didn't see anything in it that would appear to incite sedition, insurrection, or violence of any kind. Sure he used the word "fight" but that was in the context of legal & legislative actions.
I am not a Trump fan, BTW. I voted Libertarian.
 

TonyHutsonComedian

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Plus now the Super Bowl Champs/NBA Champs/World Series Champs/Stanley Cup champs will visit the White House because all of the pro sports leagues are Pro Biden/Pro China/Pro BLM/Pro Antifa and are anti Military/law enforcement/Republican etc.

Also LeBron James will give his championship ring to Biden because Biden will release all black criminals and black pedophiles and Biden and Harris will take down the American flag and replace it with a BLM and China flag.
 

tmjbog

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I just finished reading the transcript of Trump's speech. I didn't see anything in it that would appear to incite sedition, insurrection, or violence of any kind. Sure he used the word "fight" but that was in the context of legal & legislative actions.
I am not a Trump fan, BTW. I voted Libertarian.
Ya, everything I read he didn't advocate anything outside of a peaceful protest. It seems like maybe the Anon folks with a sprinkling of antifa went rogue. The anon crowd still thinks Trump has the dems right where he wants them and he is still going to be president.
 

Jo

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I just finished reading the transcript of Trump's speech. I didn't see anything in it that would appear to incite sedition, insurrection, or violence of any kind. Sure he used the word "fight" but that was in the context of legal & legislative actions.
I am not a Trump fan, BTW. I voted Libertarian.

Perhaps Trump did not intentionally incite violence by the rioters on January 6, but he does have a loose tongue for our nation's leader. He called the George Floyd protestors, "thugs". On January 6, he told the protestors he "loved" them. He encouraged protestors at the Capitol and told them to be "wild". They followed their leader.
 

voicecrying

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Perhaps Trump did not intentionally incite violence by the rioters on January 6, but he does have a loose tongue for our nation's leader. He called the George Floyd protestors, "thugs". On January 6, he told the protestors he "loved" them. He encouraged protestors at the Capitol and told them to be "wild". They followed their leader.
Did he tell them to be wild?
 

tmjbog

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Perhaps Trump did not intentionally incite violence by the rioters on January 6, but he does have a loose tongue for our nation's leader. He called the George Floyd protestors, "thugs". On January 6, he told the protestors he "loved" them. He encouraged protestors at the Capitol and told them to be "wild". They followed their leader.
Well, the protesters that were involved in looting and burning were involved in thuggish behavior. Did he tell them to be "wild" or did he say that it "will be wild"? I've heard plenty of events characterized as "wild". Does not mean people are being encouraged to act in "wild" manner. Sounds to me like he was talking up an event, not recommending a certain behavior. If you ever heard Trump speak he's definitely not going to say "it will be ok". If it's Trump it's going to be wild, the biggest, the best, the most awesome, or fill in the blank.
 

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Since I implied in post #5 that I favored charging the Capitol attackers with "sedition," I want to take that back. On further reflection, I do not favor prosecuting any of the attackers, or any office holders including the President, for sedition. I do totally favor prosecuting and convicting the insurrectionists for all violations of laws that clearly prohibit acts such as attacks on the police, vandalism and looting which took place on January 6. I believe it would be wise for us as fundamentalists to let it be known that we do not support or associate with lawless and violent actions by such groups as Proud Boys, Qanon, Boogaloo Boys, Antifa or Black Lives Matter and that we favor strong law enforcement action to prevent further violence by any of these groups. I am disturbed by polls indicating that 20% of Americans and 45% of Republicans approve of the Capitol attack - those folks do not speak for me. If we don't crack down hard on this nonsense, it's going to be "Violent Federal Building Assault of the Week," right-wingers this week, left-wingers next week, and so on.
 

Jo

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Well, the protesters that were involved in looting and burning were involved in thuggish behavior. Did he tell them to be "wild" or did he say that it "will be wild"? I've heard plenty of events characterized as "wild". Does not mean people are being encouraged to act in "wild" manner. Sounds to me like he was talking up an event, not recommending a certain behavior. If you ever heard Trump speak he's definitely not going to say "it will be ok". If it's Trump it's going to be wild, the biggest, the best, the most awesome, or fill in the blank.
I stand corrected. He said "it will be wild", not, "be wild".
 

Jo

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Since I implied in post #5 that I favored charging the Capitol attackers with "sedition," I want to take that back. On further reflection, I do not favor prosecuting any of the attackers, or any office holders including the President, for sedition. I do totally favor prosecuting and convicting the insurrectionists for all violations of laws that clearly prohibit acts such as attacks on the police, vandalism and looting which took place on January 6. I believe it would be wise for us as fundamentalists to let it be known that we do not support or associate with lawless and violent actions by such groups as Proud Boys, Qanon, Boogaloo Boys, Antifa or Black Lives Matter and that we favor strong law enforcement action to prevent further violence by any of these groups. I am disturbed by polls indicating that 20% of Americans and 45% of Republicans approve of the Capitol attack - those folks do not speak for me. If we don't crack down hard on this nonsense, it's going to be "Violent Federal Building Assault of the Week," right-wingers this week, left-wingers next week, and so on.
Well said. I believe each side tends to listen to their own rhetoric. We all find it hard to listen to any other side. We need to pray for our country.
 
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