School Bus Driver Gone Wild

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr. Huk-N-Duck
  • Start date Start date
Not shocking to me. Middle schoolers push drivers and teachers to this point all the time. No justification for this driver's response... I don't know anyone in the business who hasn't been tempted this way.

Parents need to teach their kids to be respectful to authorities and school districts need to deal with disrespectful kids quickly so incidents like this will be even more rare than they are now.
 
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abcaines said:
Not shocking to me. Middle schoolers push drivers and teachers to this point all the time. No justification for this driver's response... I don't know anyone in the business who hasn't been tempted this way.

Parents need to teach their kids to be respectful to authorities and school districts need to deal with disrespectful kids quickly and incidents like this will be even more rare than they are now.
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From personal experience, I can tell you, most school districts put up with a lot of guff from those kids before they actually remove them from the bus.
For example, I can write up a student for flagrant disrespect, dropping the F-Bomb, other disobedience to school bus rules and protocol, and it appears that the district does nothing.
Now, the district has told us that they do 'in school' discipline, (in school suspensions, and I'm not sure what else), but they never tell us what they do.
That is part of the problem.
We drivers feel like that nothing constructive is being done.
As a driver, I strive to the best of my ability to solve things on the bus.
I'll move the trouble student to the front, try to reason with them.
But there are times that will not work, so I write them up and turn them over to the district.
But as I said before, that rarely seems to work either.
It's like a circle of frustration.
If it happens again like that, I'll just threaten to quit.
We are so short of drivers, that might work.
 
Starlifter said:
From personal experience, I can tell you, most school districts put up with a lot of guff from those kids before they actually remove them from the bus.
For example, I can write up a student for flagrant disrespect, dropping the F-Bomb, other disobedience to school bus rules and protocol, and it appears that the district does nothing.
Now, the district has told us that they do 'in school' discipline, (in school suspensions, and I'm not sure what else), but they never tell us what they do.
That is part of the problem.
We drivers feel like that nothing constructive is being done.
As a driver, I strive to the best of my ability to solve things on the bus.
I'll move the trouble student to the front, try to reason with them.
But there are times that will not work, so I write them up and turn them over to the district.
But as I said before, that rarely seems to work either.
It's like a circle of frustration.
If it happens again like that, I'll just threaten to quit.
We are so short of drivers, that might work.
Click to expand...
My experience exactly.
 
There are two sides to every story, and I have no doubt that the kid probably committed some offenses that were not included on the provided film. The video doesn’t show whether the elderly driver might have been physically assaulted prior to his offenses. Regardless, as a 77 year old guy, I hope worst case scenario is he just remains retired.
 
The fact that they were in the front of the bus is no guarantee but I'd still bet the kid was assigned to the front for some reason. Typically, the kids who voluntarily sit up front are the good kids. A driver won't get much lip from kids in the front unless he's set them there for obnoxious behavior.

The article said the kid was trying to leave the bus. If the kid was being obnoxious and decided to leave the bus on his own but not at an authorized stop, the driver would have been wise to put up some token resistance; just enough to show he tried without touching the kid. Kid leaves bus at wrong place, the district will respond to that but won't be able to nail the driver.
 
abcaines said:
The article said the kid was trying to leave the bus. If the kid was being obnoxious and decided to leave the bus on his own but not at an authorized stop, the driver would have been wise to put up some token resistance; just enough to show he tried without touching the kid. Kid leaves bus at wrong place, the district will respond to that but won't be able to nail the driver.
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The doctrine of in loco parentis requires a fiduciary responsibility on behalf of the school staff member to act in the best interest of a minor student, so sometimes that may include physical force in the event that a student is planning to do harm to himself or others. Without seeing the entirety of the video, there’s really no way of knowing what precipitated the actions of the driver.
 
My brother-in-law, a lifelong autobody guy, came out of the pandemic and pivoted to a different career. He tried his hand as a bus driver. He’s very old-school. They canned him because he was too gruff. My wife’s uncle was a lifelong bus driver. He was a 6’8” teddy bear, but a teddy bear that you knew better than to mess with. He would routinely say to the unruly kids “ we can sit here all <blank> day until you sit down and behave for all I care”, and he would. And that’s the sanitized version.😁 There’s absolutely no way I could be a bus driver and put up with kids in the way they behave today.
 
HukNduck said:
The doctrine of in loco parentis requires a fiduciary responsibility on behalf of the school staff member to act in the best interest of a minor student, so sometimes that may include physical force in the event that a student is planning to do harm to himself or others. Without seeing the entirety of the video, there’s really no way of knowing what precipitated the actions of the driver.
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Have you ever heard of the Mandt System? Long story short, it's a holistic system of (in our case) handling pupils; being proactive about preventing escalation of behaviors and proper physical restraints when necessary. Idaho has mandated that district personnel be Mandt certified if they are in direct contact with students. Among other things, the thought is that if physical restraint is necessary for the reasons you cited, proper training reduces risks of injuries. IOW, if I determine physical restraint is necessary, I just can't slap a half Nelson on a kid and say I was protecting him and others. Unless the proper procedures are used, I can be subject to criminal and civil liability.

Our training covered the possibility that the best procedure of protection of self and others is sometimes allowing the student to leave the premises under their own volition. Of course, if that happens, proper authorities are to be notified immediately.

I can't say what the district or contractor policies are in this article but here, if a student, particularly a middle school student, decides to jump ship and I can demonstrate I made reasonable efforts to prevent that, (that's not a very high bar) as long as I notify dispatch immediately, I've done what I'm responsible for.
 
abcaines said:
Have you ever heard of the Mandt System? Long story short, it's a holistic system of (in our case) handling pupils; being proactive about preventing escalation of behaviors and proper physical restraints when necessary. Idaho has mandated that district personnel be Mandt certified if they are in direct contact with students. Among other things, the thought is that if physical restraint is necessary for the reasons you cited, proper training reduces risks of injuries. IOW, if I determine physical restraint is necessary, I just can't slap a half Nelson on a kid and say I was protecting him and others. Unless the proper procedures are used, I can be subject to criminal and civil liability.

Our training covered the possibility that the best procedure of protection of self and others is sometimes allowing the student to leave the premises under their own volition. Of course, if that happens, proper authorities are to be notified immediately.

I can't say what the district or contractor policies are in this article but here, if a student, particularly a middle school student, decides to jump ship and I can demonstrate I made reasonable efforts to prevent that, (that's not a very high bar) as long as I notify dispatch immediately, I've done what I'm responsible for.
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Can’t say I recall the Mandt System. I’m not an expert on juvenile law. I know criminal and tort law can vary pretty wildly by state, so the threshold in Washington might be very different than Florida or Alaska when it comes to liability.
 
ALAYMAN said:
My brother-in-law, a lifelong autobody guy, came out of the pandemic and pivoted to a different career. He tried his hand as a bus driver. He’s very old-school. They canned him because he was too gruff. My wife’s uncle was a lifelong bus driver. He was a 6’8” teddy bear, but a teddy bear that you knew better than to mess with. He would routinely say to the unruly kids “ we can sit here all <blank> day until you sit down and behave for all I care”, and he would. And that’s the sanitized version.😁 There’s absolutely no way I could be a bus driver and put up with kids in the way they behave today.
Click to expand...
In over 20 years of driving experience, I have never seen the old "we'll wait till you settle down" approach work. It's especially ineffective when most kids have cell phones and can call parents. The last thing a driver wants to face is a parent and a kid because most of the time parents will take the kids' side and that's not a game you'll win.
 
HukNduck said:
Can’t say I recall the Mandt System. I’m not an expert on juvenile law. I know criminal and tort law can vary pretty wildly by state, so the threshold in Washington might be very different than Florida or Alaska when it comes to liability.
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Pretty much, if you err on the side of hands off the kids, you'll likely survive.
 
abcaines said:
In over 20 years of driving experience, I have never seen the old "we'll wait till you settle down" approach work. It's especially ineffective when most kids have cell phones and can call parents. The last thing a driver wants to face is a parent and a kid because most of the time parents will take the kids' side and that's not a game you'll win.
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Haha, my wife’s uncle retired in the mid-90s (meaning he drove in the 70s-90s, I think the kids were a bit different back then, lol
 
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