Should you switch from Windows to something else?

[Ekklesian]

I was really confused with the different aspects of Covenant theology when it comes to prophecy. You at least made it a little clearer on your beliefs even though I still don't agree with it.

I know you won't agree. I just didn't want you to think that there was no order seen in Revelation. It's just not linear. It's progressive, like Genesis 1 and 2. The events described in Gen. 2:4 don't begin on day 8. It's just a parallel account taking us deeper into a different facet of the act of creation. A different name for God is used, and another facet of His relationship with His creation is revealed.

 

[Ransom]

I know many Christians reject the teaching of the coming Antichrist and a one world government.

I'm curious why why why you decided to try and connect Microsoft adding AI to its operating system to the Antichrist, and then question those who disagree as though they were the oddballs.

 

[biscuit1953]

I'm curious why why why you decided to try and connect Microsoft adding AI to its operating system to the Antichrist, and then question those who disagree as though they were the oddballs.

Because I do believe technolology will be how the mark of the beast will be possible. I don't take just one part or scripture like the regathering of the Jews to their homeland or just the technology that will enable the Antichrist to control whatever one may buy or sell. The one thing I will never get around is the idea of symbolizing prophecy when there is no sound reason to. Common reading of scripture is obvious to most people that God is not finished with the Jews, and I don't mean spiritual Jews but the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They have plans at this moment for rebuilding the temple, preparing a red heifer etc. The fact that the Jews are still in a state of unbelief and the whole world is now condemning Israel for defending themselves after such a brutal terrorist attack, then calling for Benjamin Netanyahu to be arrested and put in prison, all ties in with the literal interpretation of prophecy. I believe we are fast approaching the Battle of Armageddon described in Revelation. I like the simple rule: "If the literal meaning of a passage leads to obvious absurdity, but a figurative meaning yields clarity, then the passage is probabily using symbols. For example, In Exodus 19:4, God tells Israel, 'I carried you on eagles' wings.' A literal reading of this statement would lead to absurdity - God did not use real eagles to airlift His people out of Egypt. The statement is obviously symbolic; God is emphasizing the speed and strengthy with which He delivered Israel."

What has really confused me about Covenant theology in relation to prophecy is how they viewed the end times. I saw some of yours and other posts on Israel being fulfilled by the Church replacing them and I thought John Gill, Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, et all were in agreement with that view. I got a copy of the Spurgeon Study Bible and started checking into John Gill and even R.C.Sproul and realized there were disagreements which greatly surprised me. Ekklesian explained more of the divergent beliefs in prophecy but I still don't accept the uncalled for symbolizing (in my opinion) of prophecies that have no need to be spiritualized.

 

[Ransom]

Because I do believe technolology will be how the mark of the beast will be possible.

And what leads you to suspect that Windows' AI features may be involved?

 

[voicecrying]

And what leads you to suspect that Windows' AI features may be involved?

Windows is mentioned in Malachi - the last book of the OT, so the last book in the NT has to be connected too.

 

[Ekklesian]

But Peter said that even in his day there were antichrists in the earth.

I mean John. Not Peter.

 

[Ekklesian]

The one thing I will never get around is the idea of symbolizing prophecy when there is no sound reason to.

No, Zionism is the thing that's tripping you up.

No one is just willy-nilly "spiritualizing" things.

It's pretty straight forward. I mean, we're told these things directly by the Apostles themselves. It's not like we made them up to reconcile apparent contradictions. What's made up is the silly notion that the Old Covenant is still hanging on somehow waiting for the delivery of some unfulfilled promise...that the church age is a sort of parenthetical age interrupting God's real agenda.

 

[Ekklesian]

The fact that the Jews are still in a state of unbelief and the whole world is now condemning Israel for defending themselves after such a brutal terrorist attack, then calling for Benjamin Netanyahu to be arrested and put in prison, all ties in with the literal interpretation of prophecy.

Be specific. Which prophecies particularly?

 

[biscuit1953]

Be specific. Which prophecies particularly?

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This what Spurgeon said concerning Zech 12:10. He reads this passage as one would naturally read any other book. No need to spiritualize it away. No reason to make "the house of David" or "the inhabitants of Jerusalem" mean anything other than what the text says.

“This prophecy, first of all, refers to the Jewish people; and I am happy it confirms our conviction that the Lord will do good to Israel. We know God has said that the Jews will be restored to their own land and that they will inherit the good country the Lord has given to their fathers by a covenant.

The day is coming when they will see in Jesus of Nazareth that Messiah for whom their saints looked with joyful expectation, of whom the prophets spoke with rapture, but who was despised and rejected by their blinded leaders. What a happy day it will be when our Jewish brethren will all be found worshiping before the Lord of hosts through their great high priest, who is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek!”

There is a fundamental difference in how we look at reading the text. You aren't my enemy because you don't see everything the way I do and vice versa. I do appreciate your clarifying the view many take though.

 

[Ekklesian]

I don't see Netanyahu written in there anywhere.

 

[Ekklesian]

What a happy day it will be when our Jewish brethren will all be found worshiping before the Lord of hosts through their great high priest, who is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek!”

Jesus can't serve as the high priest in Jerusalem. That man must come from Levi, according the law.

 

[Ekklesian]

There is a fundamental difference in how we look at reading the text.

Yes, I tend to take the Apostles at their word. And as your cited text is concerning Jerusalem...How does Paul contrast natural Jerusalem with spiritual Jerusalem? One is a bondwoman, and the other is free.

Citing the Scriptures as his authority, what does Paul say to do with the bondwoman?

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall NOT be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. - Galatians 4:30-31​

​

Notice the boldened pronoun? Paul includes himself in that. He himself, a Jew of Jews, of the tribe of Benjamin, a graduate of their most prestigious seminary, confesses there is no promise left for the Jerusalem you so idolize.

 

[biscuit1953]

Yes, I tend to take the Apostles at their word. And as your cited text is concerning Jerusalem...How does Paul contrast natural Jerusalem with spiritual Jerusalem? One is a bondwoman, and the other is free.

Citing the Scriptures as his authority, what does Paul say to do with the bondwoman?

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall NOT be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. - Galatians 4:30-31 Paul is talking about being under the bondage of the ceremonial aspects of the law. He is warning Judaizers that salvation cannot be obtained by keeping the law of Moses. Those who mix law and grace (Seventh Day Adventists for example) have perverted the gospel of the grace of God (Gal 1:8-9). "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" (Gal 2:20). "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Gal 5:4). ​

​

Notice the boldened pronoun? Paul includes himself in that. He himself, a Jew of Jews, of the tribe of Benjamin, a graduate of their most prestigious seminary, confesses there is no promise left for the Jerusalem you so idolize. Paul includes himself as well as other Jews as part of those who are no longer under the law of Moses. Because Paul uses metaphors doesn't nullify the covenant God made with Abraham. I can just as easily go to Romans 11 and show that Paul makes a clear argument that God is not through with Israel and that physical Israel (not the Church) has not been cast off and will one day be saved.

Let me say one other thing. I don't believed you are a heretic because you don't see eye to eye with what I see. Anyone who believes the gospel and rejects adding the works of the law or any other works to salvation will be justified before God. I think of Spurgeon who was completely on the other end of the spectrum of belief of John Wesley when it comes to Calvinism, but he didn't count Wesley as an enemy to be ridiculed. "It will be time to find fault with John Wesley, not when we discover hs mistakes, but when we have cured our own. When we shall have more piety, more grace, more fire, more burning love, more intense unselfishness, then and not till the, may we begin to find fault and criticise." I don't claim to be perfect in understanding everything concerning the scriptures but we can agree to disagree.

 

[Ransom]

The bailey:

The fact that the Jews are still in a state of unbelief and the whole world is now condemning Israel for defending themselves after such a brutal terrorist attack, then calling for Benjamin Netanyahu to be arrested and put in prison, all ties in with the literal interpretation of prophecy.

The motte:

This what Spurgeon said concerning Zech 12:10. He reads this passage as one would naturally read any other book. No need to spiritualize it away. No reason to make "the house of David" or "the inhabitants of Jerusalem" mean anything other than what the text says.

Besides, what would Spurgeon have known of Netanyahu fulfilling Bible prophecy? By your own logic, he was wrong about the meaning of Zech. 12.

 

[biscuit1953]

The bailey:



The motte:



Besides, what would Spurgeon have known of Netanyahu fulfilling Bible prophecy? By your own logic, he was wrong about the meaning of Zech. 12.

That's a pretty cheap shot. I mentioned Netanyahu because he is the leader of the nation of Israel which the whole world is condemning and you know I wasn't implying Spurgeon knew anything about him personally. All nations will come against Israel in the latter days and that is what we are seeing a preview of. Anti-semitism is in a frenzy worldwide at this very moment and the only hope of Israel will be the coming of their Messiah at the battle of Armageddon. I don't have anything else to discuss.

 

[Agent P]

Windows is mentioned in Malachi - the last book of the OT, so the last book in the NT has to be connected too.

Let me throw in another monkey wrench, then. In the Hebrew OT canon, Malachi is somewhere in the middle of their Bible. The final book in their canon is II Chronicles, which ends with the fall of Jerusalem, the exile, and Cyrus' edict to rebuild the temple.

 

[Ransom]

That's a pretty cheap shot.

It's not a cheap shot at all. It's a necessary implication of your own assertions. You said that "calling for Benjamin Netanyahu to be arrested and put in prison ... ties in with the literal interpretation of prophecy." If that is true, then Spurgeon, who says nothing about Netanyahu, cannot be engaging in "literal interpretation of prophecy."

Or he is, but in lacking that key fact, he does so wrongly. In which case, if as gifted an expositor as Charles Spurgeon gets it wrong, what confidence can we have that you are in possession of enough key facts to get it right?

 

[Ekklesian]

Paul is talking about being under the bondage of the ceremonial aspects of the law. He is warning Judaizers that salvation cannot be obtained by keeping the law of Moses. Those who mix law and grace (Seventh Day Adventists for example) have perverted the gospel of the grace of God (Gal 1:8-9). "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" (Gal 2:20). "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Gal 5:4).

No, Paul is comparing and contrasting covenants. There is nothing left of the Old Covenant to fulfill. If there were, then we would all still be under the law of Moses.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. - Matthew 5:18​

 

[Ekklesian]

Paul includes himself as well as other Jews as part of those who are no longer under the law of Moses. Because Paul uses metaphors doesn't nullify the covenant God made with Abraham. I can just as easily go to Romans 11 and show that Paul makes a clear argument that God is not through with Israel and that physical Israel (not the Church) has not been cast off and will one day be saved.

Paul in Romans 11 puts forth his conversion as proof that God has not cast away His people. Like in the days of Elijah, God said He reserved to Himself 7000 men who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, So He has an election of grace today, and they are the believing jews.

So Israel is a tree, and the unbelieving branches were cut off, and the wild believing branches were grafted in. They are now the elect. And so all Israel, the elect from every nation, jew and gentile alike, shall be saved.

 

[Ekklesian]

Let me say one other thing. I don't believed you are a heretic because you don't see eye to eye with what I see. Anyone who believes the gospel and rejects adding the works of the law or any other works to salvation will be justified before God. I think of Spurgeon who was completely on the other end of the spectrum of belief of John Wesley when it comes to Calvinism, but he didn't count Wesley as an enemy to be ridiculed. "It will be time to find fault with John Wesley, not when we discover hs mistakes, but when we have cured our own. When we shall have more piety, more grace, more fire, more burning love, more intense unselfishness, then and not till the, may we begin to find fault and criticise." I don't claim to be perfect in understanding everything concerning the scriptures but we can agree to disagree.

This wasn't necessary, but I appreciate the thought.