The Virtues of Proverbs

[Vince Massi]

No ifs, ands, or buts, Joe Combs was the best teacher I had at HAC: Why? He taught something no one else taught: the importance of wisdom. If he plagiarized someone else's work, he at least plagiarized the truth. "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom..." is a command that Sword of the Lord never taught. In fact, outside of Joe's classes, no one at HAC taught the value of wisdom.

Joe made a sharp distinction between knowledge, wisdom, etc., while I see all these virtues overlapping and building on each other. Furthermore, Joe never went far enough to show us that HAC had serious spiritual problems (as did Joe). In addition, the Bible rarely defines words such as "knowledge" "wisdom," "discernment," etc.

This is going to be somewhat deep, but for those of you who paid for Joe's Wisdom Book and never received it, it's the best I can do.

 

[Vince Massi]

"Knowledge"--the ability to recall truth.

Notice that I did not say "the ability to recall Scripture." Scripture is truth, but there are other historical facts that are true. One evangelist actually teaches that Christian liberty consists of obeying leaders whom he approves. Knowledge tells us that he had approved a high school principal as his unaccredited Bible College president, and the president later went to prison for sex crimes with a minor.

The Holy Spirit gives us knowledge  John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Because ALL Christians have the Holy Spirit giving them knowledge, it is better NOT to isolate yourself from Christians outside of your own group. Proverbs 11:14 tells us "Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Will the Devil destroy you if you listen to saints outside your group? The Holy Spirit will teach you, and He has been teaching them as well.

Christian groups try to keep from losing members by keeping them from reading outside writings. But Calvinistic Charles Spurgeon has been a great blessing to large numbers of non-Calvinist Christians. Soft on Catholicism, Bill Gothard has helped so many saints with Scriptural methods of dealing with spiritual problems that his "radical" teachings are now commonplace.

HACcers are  surprised to learn that there is only one command in all the Epistles to go soul-winning, while entire chapters are devoted to spiritual gifts. Other than condemning Pentecostal errors on speaking in tongues, we were taught nothing about spiritual gifts, which have opened many doors of Christian service to me.

Knowledge is not something to fear. Unless you're an organization that has something to hide.

 

[Vince Massi]

Joe Combs had made a sharp distinction between the Proverbial virtues, but they actually overlap and build on each other. I'm jumping ahead, but knowledge is necessary in order to have wisdom. Wisdom is necessary to have understanding, etc. Without knowledge, you can only advance slightly into the other Proverbial virtues.

In the first few days, HAC taught us that we were not allowed to criticize. They were the world's largest Sunday School and we were there to learn how they did it. It made sense to me. But HAC didn't tell us that they were withholding knowledge from us. Students graduated without being told of the cover-ups and deceit that the college was practicing. Hyles thundered away at "deeper life" without telling us that spiritual gifts were a prominent part of the Epistles, while soul-winning was commanded only one time.

Jim Vineyard was allowed to slander students who opposed his sins from the pulpit, but those students weren't allowed to defend themselves.  Meanwhile, Christian colleges that weren't this strict have produced nothing like the scandals of HAC--the students wouldn't tolerate it, once they had knowledge of it.

Christian colleges that teach all sides of an issue don't get the scandals that HAC does. Knowledge is a source of Godliness, not a threat to Godliness.

HAC used to monitor the old FFFs. They sometimes did correct the abuses reported on those boards. But why not listen to Godly students who had told them the same thing? Because HAC regards knowledge as a threat.

 

[Vince Massi]

Knowledge and the fear of the Lord go together.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge  1:7
Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD. 1:29


Knowledge comes from listening to God
From his mouth come knowledge 2:6


Should you listen to the knowledge that comes from critics of a corrupt system?
Wise people store up knowledge. 10:14
But through knowledge the righteous will be delivered.  11:9
Also it is not good for a soul to be without knowledge. 19:2
Apply….your ears to words of knowledge.  23:12


Are Christian leaders doing right when they hide sins from regular Christians?
The lips of the wise disperse knowledge, But the heart of the fool does not do so.  15:7
But the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.  20:15

 

[Vince Massi]

"Wisdom is the principal thing!" Joe thundered to the classroom. "Therefore get wisdom!"

Sitting in that class, I was shocked. I was uncomfortably aware that I knew of that verse, but had pushed it aside. A heavy reader of Sword of the Lord and John R. Rice's books, I knew that Dr. Rice had never taught this. I was also aware that Jack Hyles never taught this.

Talk about powerful teaching, and it was better than almost every sermon I have ever heard. Joe pounded out verse after verse showing the value of wisdom. Go ahead. Get a colored marker and mark the word "wisdom" every time you find it in Proverbs. Then go back and read those verses again. Wisdom is more valuable than soul-winning. It is more valuable that separation. Wisdom is the principal thing.

 

[Ransom]

No ifs, ands, or buts, Joe Combs was the best teacher I had at HAC: Why? He taught something no one else taught: the importance of wisdom. If he plagiarized someone else's work, he at least plagiarized the truth.

If he raped and tortured anyone, he at least raped and tortured his own adopted daughter instead of someone else's.

 

[Vince Massi]

Joe defined wisdom as "the ability to apply Scripture to a specific situation." I feel that a better definition is "the ability to apply knowledge to a specific situation."

But Joe amazed me as he cited verse after verse about the value of wisdom:

1) It provides happiness 3:13
2) It gives you glory 3:35
3) It's the principal thing 4:7
4) It's better than everything else 8:11
5) It's the key to other virtues 8:12 This was a flaw in Joe's teaching-he made every virtue sharply distinct from the others, when they actually overlap and build each other. Without wisdom, it is difficult or impossible to advance to other virtues.
6) Wisdom begins with the fear of the Lord 9:10
7) Wisdom produces helpful, truthful talk 12:18, plus the verses surrounding it. Also 15:2 & 16:23
8) Associating with wise men gives you wisdom 13:20
9) Better than gold 16:16
10) Makes you strong  24:5 Yelling "Don't quit!" over and over can help. But wisdom gives Christ's servants the strength to keep going when things get rough.

Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore, get wisdom.

 

[Ransom]

Joe defined wisdom as "the ability to apply Scripture to a specific situation."

Here's a great example of Joe Combs' applying Scripture to a specific situation:

Beginning at age 11, [Esther Combs] said, she was regularly sexually abused by her father. She said he told her that King David had concubines, so this behavior was condoned by the Bible. (Source)

Shame on you for hero-worshipping the child-raping POS.

 

[Vince Massi]

Folks, I have made clear on another thread that I am bewildered and dismayed by Joe Combs' sins. I am not an admirer of him. However, he was widely admired by the Godly students while I was at HAC, and he was considered the best teacher there.

Although Joe's teachings on wisdom have stuck with me, his notes have not. This thread is the result of my own studies over the years. I have stated more than once that Joe was deficient in his teaching on these virtues.

I have noticed a tendency of more than one poster to speak with authority on events that occurred in the early years of HAC, even though they were not students at the time. I was in the opening class, and HAC was a wonderful place to be at that time. By the time I left, I had already decided that I would never recommend the place to anyone. The college changed drastically after the first few years.

 

[prophet]

Folks, I have made clear on another thread that I am bewildered and dismayed by Joe Combs' sins. I am not an admirer of him. However, he was widely admired by the Godly students while I was at HAC, and he was considered the best teacher there.

Although Joe's teachings on wisdom have stuck with me, his notes have not. This thread is the result of my own studies over the years. I have stated more than once that Joe was deficient in his teaching on these virtues.

I have noticed a tendency of more than one poster to speak with authority on events that occurred in the early years of HAC, even though they were not students at the time. I was in the opening class, and HAC was a wonderful place to be at that time. By the time I left, I had already decided that I would never recommend the place to anyone. The college changed drastically after the first few years.

You are a 'tard

 

[Ransom]

Folks, I have made clear on another thread that I am bewildered and dismayed by Joe Combs' sins. I am not an admirer of him.

And now, we juxtapose . . .

No ifs, ands, or buts, Joe Combs was the best teacher I had at HAC

Talk about powerful teaching, and it was better than almost every sermon I have ever heard.

But Joe amazed me as he cited verse after verse about the value of wisdom:

Apparently, there's a very fine line between "I am not an admirer" and "I kiss the ground he walks on."

Go ahead, Vince, tell us something else disingenuous . . .

Furthermore, Joe never went far enough to show us that HAC had serious spiritual problems (as did Joe).

Sure, and Tomas de Torquemada had some slight discomfort around Jews.

 

[Vince Massi]

No, Ransom, I said that Joe was the best teacher at HAC and he was. I do not admire him today.

Instead of misquoting me, Ransom, why don't you disagree with me by quoting Scripture showing that wisdom is unimportant?

 

[Vince Massi]

Understanding--the ability to benefit from wise counsel. Proverbs 1:5-6


1) Gives you the ability to see how goodness works 2:9
2) Gives you happiness 3:13
3) It preserves the other virtues 5:1-2
4) Impossible to attain without wisdom 10:23 Wisdom and understanding are often listed together and they overlap.
5) People who have understanding seek knowledge 15:14 There is a doctrine that you should not listen to Christians who expose a leader's sins, but understanding goes against that doctrine.
6) Listening to rebuke increases your understanding 15:32
7) Understanding is increased by keeping God's Word rather than man's word Psalm 119:100

 

[Ransom]

Instead of misquoting me, Ransom

I didn't misquote you, Vince. You just don't like what I quoted.

 

[Vince Massi]

Ransom, instead of misquoting me and making false accusations, why don't you show knowledge? Cite Scriptures that show that understanding is not important.

 

[Ransom]

Ransom, instead of misquoting me and making false accusations, why don't you show knowledge?

I showed knowledge of Joe Coombs - who, along with his wife, is currently serving a 179-year prison sentence for the sexual abuse and torture of his adopted daughter - that you were obfuscating through weasel words about "serious spiritual problems."

Someone who raped little girls and burned them with a curling iron, while teaching a Bible class in a church college, is in no moral position to be teaching me, you, or anyone else about "wisdom."  Clearly, you have never learned any, either.

 

[Vince Massi]

Proverbs 18:1-2 is difficult to translate but shows us an important truth.

Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.  KJV

A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgment. New King James Version

Holding on  to a false doctrine while claiming to be a fundamentalist, a Christian can find himself constantly being defeated by wisdom (the ability to apply knowledge to a specific situation). So he starts preaching isolation, while labeling it separation. You cannot listen to Billy Graham! or the Southern Baptist Convention! or Jerry Falwell! or Bob Jones University! or the charismatics! or Adam Clarke! or Strong's Exhaustive Concordance! or anyone showing the sins of the leader's group!

Eventually, the leader isolates his group enough that his followers cannot learn the errors of their leader.

Some time back, a successful Christian blogger attacked another successful blogger. The second blogger responded with an avalanche of knowledge, the attacker turned to insults and false accusations, and the second blogger continued to use wisdom and knowledge (the ability to recall truth), citing Scripture and actual events.

Badly defeated in a debate that was getting a lot of visits, the attacker began blasting his own followers for checking the second blogger's site to see the other side of the issue. He realized, correctly, that knowledge was an enemy to his cause.

The Proverbial virtues stress the importance of gaining and spreading knowledge. 18:1 tells us that a person who opposes wisdom (the ability to apply knowledge to a specific situation) is meddling with virtues he does not possess. He is hostile and unfriendly because these virtues are an attack on himself.

When you see angry teachers, teachers who rely on false accusations, and teachers who support isolation, Proverbs 18:1 tells us that they are interfering with virtues they do not possess.

 

[Ransom]

Proverbs 18:1-2 is difficult to translate but shows us an important truth.

1 Timothy 5:8 is easy to translate and shows us an important truth: "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

If a man who refuses to provide for his family is no better than an unbeliever, then how much worse is a man like Joe Combs who tortures and rapes his child?

And who in his right mind would approvingly post Bible teaching from this inhuman monster?

Well, Vince Massi, apparently. God gives more discernment to two-year-olds for free, than your typical Hyles-Anderson student gets when he pays for his edumucashun.

 

[BandGuy]

That's pretty sad if he was the best teacher you had in "college".  You would have been better off with Ergun Caner.

 

[Ransom]

Proverbs 18:1-2 is difficult to translate but shows us an important truth.

Since all the major translations seem to agree on its meaning, it doesn't, in fact, appear all that hard to translate. Though I have little doubt that the rapist lacked the requisite skills, so in his case, it was probably true.

However, you are correct that it shows an important truth:

Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire;
he breaks out against all sound judgment.
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
but only in expressing his opinion.

In fact, after reading your inaccurate and self-contradictory monologue about irresistible grace, I'm inclined to believe that you also failed to grasp its significance.