Well Reasoned

subllibrm

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This was shared with me and is worth passing on.

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- Clayton Wood

- Minneapolis at a Crossroad -

Before we talk about immigration, borders, or enforcement, we need to talk about something more basic.

Two people are dead.

Families are grieving.

And the road this country is choosing right now does not lead to justice.

It leads to ruin.

Renée Good.

Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse.

Those are not abstractions.

Those are human beings made in the image of God.

Scripture does not allow us to treat death as political theater.

“The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.”
Psalm 34:18

Whatever your views on immigration, law enforcement, or federal authority, two deaths demand sobriety, not slogans.

But what has followed has been almost as disturbing as the shootings themselves.

Within hours, the narratives were set.

Not facts.

Narratives.

On one side, ICE as villains hunting children and peaceful citizens.

On the other side, ICE as flawless heroes and protesters as animals who deserve whatever happens.

Both of those are lies.

And lies are how societies lose their way.

Before we go further, I need to say something very directly to my fellow Christians and to anyone who cares about the health of this country.

The algorithm feeds outrage.

It rewards anger.

It rewards fear.

It rewards mockery.

It rewards certainty without evidence.

I have watched people say, “I don’t know much about this, but I will delete you if you are for X or Y or Z.”

That is a horrible posture.

Creating self reinforcing silos of people who agree with you even when you are spreading misinformation and propaganda is horrible for you and horrible for our country.

Today I spoke with an intelligent friend who was upset about the shooting.

He brought up a previous case and repeated false propaganda.

How did that happen to my intelligent friend?

He cared enough to skim the headlines.

He did not care enough to dive deeply into the case.

The lie was widely believed, like “hands up don’t shoot,” and the truth was less known.

This is how decent people become misinformed.

You do not have to care deeply about every case.

I would urge you to love your family.

Have some hot chocolate.

Pray for those who are hurting.

But if you care enough to post, please care enough to read.

Christians have a special obligation here.

We are called to speak the truth in love.

That requires us to hate deceit.

But it also requires us to hate mockery.

To hate belittling.

To hate joy in another person’s harm.

If we cannot hold truth and charity together, we are not peacemakers.

We are part of the problem.

Now back to Minneapolis.

One of the most destructive lies circulating right now is the claim that ICE arrested a five year old boy.

That story went everywhere.

Shared thousands of times.

Used to inflame anger.

Used to justify outrage.

Used to stir crowds.

And it was false.

What actually happened was that a frightened father fled from federal agents and abandoned his five year old son in the chaos.

ICE did not arrest the child.

They took custody of a terrified boy who had been left alone.

That does not make enforcement gentle.

It does not make the system good.

But it matters deeply that a lie replaced the truth.

And Scripture is explicit.

“Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord.”
Proverbs 12:22

False witness is not activism.

It is sin.

And in moments like this, it is not harmless.

It gets people hurt.

Now let me speak personally for a moment.

As an attorney, I know far more than most citizens about use of force law and about what is legal and what is excessive and what is criminal.

And I will not pretend to know what happened in these cases when the facts are still unclear.

In the chaotic videos circulating yesterday, I honestly could not even tell at first who the officers were and who the protesters were.

Who tackled whom.

Who escalated.

Who was resisting.

Who was identifying themselves.

And that matters.

Because use of force cases turn on seconds, angles, perceptions, and threats that almost never show up clearly on video.

I also know something else from personal experience.

Situations like this are extraordinarily dangerous.

Years ago, I intervened in what I believed was an assault in progress in a Walmart parking lot.

A large man attacking a woman.

She was screaming for help.

Everything in my instincts said intervene.

Only later did I realize it was an undercover officer making an arrest in a shoplifting ring.

His lack of visible identification made the situation more dangerous for him, for her, and for me.

In clouds of tear gas, in crowds, in chaos, visible identification matters.

Uniforms matter.

Clear authority matters.

Because confusion gets people killed.

And shame on the politicians who are making this worse.

Throwing rhetoric into volatile situations.

Encouraging obstruction.

Defying federal law openly.

Inflaming crowds.

Pouring gasoline on fires they will never have to stand in front of.

This is reckless.

And it is already costing lives.

Now let me say something that will make both sides uncomfortable.

The binary being offered to you right now is dishonest.

ICE are the bad guys.

ICE are the good guys.

Both of those are propaganda designed to make people stop thinking.

Yes, in one sense every human institution is fallen.

Every agent is a sinner.

Every system is imperfect.

But it is morally unserious to say ICE is simply evil.

When federal agents remove a convicted rapist from a community, they are not the bad guys.

When they disrupt gangs selling fentanyl and save thousands of lives, they are not the bad guys.

At the same time, it is equally dishonest to pretend every agent is perfectly trained, restrained, and always right.

Some officers are careful, professional, and courageous.

Some appear militarized, abrasive, and poorly trained.

Both exist.

And both are now operating in a far more dangerous environment because of failures far upstream.

The federal presence in Minneapolis did not arise in a vacuum.

It arose because the local and state systems failed.

I wrote less than two months ago right here on Facebook about what is happening in Minnesota.

A twice convicted rapist named Abdimahat Bille Mohamed kidnapped a woman, held her captive for days, and attacked her again.

He had already harmed an adult.

He had already harmed a child.

He served zero jail time.

Zero.

Two attacks.

One victim a minor.

And Minnesota still released him.

That woman is now living through a nightmare that never should have been possible.

That is not a mistake.

That is not a loophole.

That is the result of a worldview.

A worldview that treats punishment as the real problem.

That treats violent men as misunderstood victims.

That releases predators and then acts shocked when predators do what predators do.

Minnesota is becoming a warning to the entire country.

Gut your justice system and women pay the price.

Elevate ideology over safety and families are destroyed.

Refuse to punish violent men and you guarantee more victims.

And now the same political leadership that would not jail rapists is lecturing the nation about justice.

This is incoherence.

And incoherence produces exactly what we are watching now.

Fear.

Chaos.

Violence.

Narrative warfare.

And let me add something else that matters.

Minneapolis is also the city where Justine Damond was shot to death in 2017.

She was unarmed.

She was not protesting.

She was not resisting arrest.

She called to report a crime.

The officer responded and shot her as she approached his squad car.

And that officer is now released.

This city has been living with deep wounds and broken trust for a long time.

Long before George Floyd.

Long before this week.

And a great deal of what we are watching now flows directly from the same leadership choices and the same political culture.

Scripture could not be clearer.

“The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.”
Proverbs 18:17

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”
Matthew 5:9

“Let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.”
James 1:19

God hates unequal weights and measures.

He hates selective justice.

He hates double standards.

And sadly, it often seems that Minneapolis loves them.

We are being discipled right now.

Toward hatred.

Toward dehumanization.

Toward civil conflict.

Toward the lie that violence will purify politics.

It will not.

Civil conflict is not heroic.

It is not cinematic.

It is fast.

It is brutal.

And it destroys the innocent first.

If you care about immigrants, do not spread lies that get people killed.

If you care about law enforcement, do not celebrate death.

If you care about justice, do not inflame crowds with propaganda.

If you care about this country, demand truth before outrage.

This immigration series exists for one reason.

Not to pick teams.

Not to score points.

Not to go viral.

But to try, slowly and carefully, to build a system that holds law and mercy together without tearing the country apart.

We cannot do that if we abandon truth.

We cannot do that if we turn neighbors into enemies.

We cannot do that if we train ourselves to hate.

So let me say this as plainly as I know how.

Pray for the families of the dead.

Pray for the officers.

Pray for the protesters.

Pray for our leaders.

Refuse lies.

Refuse hatred.

Refuse to cheer for blood.

Because the road we are choosing right now does not lead to justice.

It leads to ruin.

And Scripture has warned us about this road for thousands of years.

“Seek peace and pursue it.”
Psalm 34:14
 
I'm not fully convinced that the Pretti shooting was justifiable.

On the other hand, I also haven't seen video of the Good shooting, from any angle, that would clear her of striking the ICE guy with her car.

So we can't make a blanket statement either that ICE protesters are violent criminals (as many on the right want to do), or that they are practically saints (as many on the left want to do).

Each case has to be evaluatd on its own merits--in which case, it appears now that one shoot was likely justified, and the other possibly not.

And, as your article rightly says, they were people made in the image of God, and that means they are morally responsible for the consequences of their own actions. As they said about Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha in 2020, they shouldn't have inserted themselves into a volatile situation. I don't think either Pretti or Good deserved to die, but they did receive, as Scripture might say, the "due penalty for their error."
 
I would only disagree with your first sentence. In the States, when you commit a felony and you have a gun on you... you should expect death as a very possible outcome.
 
I haven't (and won’t) watched every angle of every video of the most recent shooting.
It is absolutely possible that ICE did something wrong, and its totally possible that they behaved reasonably under the circumstances.

I absolutely do know that it is very easy not to be killed or injured by ICE. Millions have managed to pull that off. In fact over 99.9999% of people who have participated in a protest of ICE have managed to stay alive….because they did not confront ICE with a gun or threaten them with a vehicle.
 
Whether or not ICE did something wrong in either shooting, we have to ask why are they in a position where they have to make a split second decision? Is it better to lose one of them because they incorrectly concluded their life wasn't in danger?

How would we react if we found ourselves in a situation where emotions are high and we have to decide on such short notice?
 
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I would only disagree with your first sentence. In the States, when you commit a felony and you have a gun on you... you should expect death as a very possible outcome.
exactly right.... . the news keeps building it up that this guy was an ICU nurse.... .. but what they ignore is that he didn;t go to that protest with a medical backpack prepared to save lives or provide treatment to injured persons.. ..he went there with a loaded gun and spare ammunition.... .. then got in the face of federal law enforcement officers who were already under attack by a violent mob.....

.
 
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I would only disagree with your first sentence. In the States, when you commit a felony and you have a gun on you... you should expect death as a very possible outcome.

Of course, I'm well aware that your gun laws are less strict than ours. Pretti in Canada would have committed an indictable offence just for having his Sig on him, loaded and accessible, and been subject to at least 10 years in jail. You have open carry and concealed carry. We have "don't carry."

I'm generally sympathetic to the principle of "don't start nothing, won't be nothing." Packing heat when you go to protest the cops is a Very Bad Idea. As I said, Pretti probably earned the consequences of his poor decisions.

But it's still not clear that he'd actually drawn his weapon. The various videos I've seen show him with an oblong dark object in his hand. It could be a gun, and it could be a phone. Unlike the Good incident, I haven't yet seen an unambiguous angle. Shooting someone who may be armed but not actually brandishing doesn't strike me as cricket.

I'm a pretty big fan of reserving judgment until the facts are in. Sometimes, getting the facts takes longer.
 
I would only disagree with your first sentence. In the States, when you commit a felony and you have a gun on you... you should expect death as a very possible outcome.
You disagree with me that it was worth passing on?
 
exactly right.... . the news keeps building it up that this guy was an ICU nurse.... .. but what they ignore is that he didn;t go to that protest with a medical backpack prepared to save lives or provide treatment to injured persons.. ..he went there with a loaded gun and spare ammunition.... .. then got in the face of federal law enforcement officers who were already under attack by a violent mob.....

.
You didn't watch the videos either did you?
 
You didn't watch the videos either did you?
i watched them... ..are those what you used to draw your conclusions?......... .. i;ve seen videos that offered more proof that bigfoot exists than any video yet that shows pretti didn;t deserve to be shot.... or that ice officers were justified in shooting him - either one....... i;ll leave it to the investigators and then to the jury who will see what the investigators find..... . ..and it;s the same with the woman an ice officer shot in her car........ it;s a matter for the investigators........

but one thing i know for certain is that neither of them would be dead today had they not chose to confront and obstruct federal law enforcement officers and attempt to keep them from doing their jobs...... .that alone is a felony - which in the case of pretti would have nullified his right to carry a gun permit on the spot.... and also nullified goods license to operate a motor vehicle since she was in control of one when she committed the crime...... at that moment both of them became felons in possession of a deadly weapon or deadly device.... ..so whether their deaths were justified or not.... (which remains to be determined)... one thing is certain - they brought it on themselves.......
 
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i watched them... ..are those what you used to draw your conclusions?......... .. i;ve seen videos that offered more proof that bigfoot exists than any video yet that shows pretti didn;t deserve to be shot.... or that ice officers were justified in shooting him - either one....... i;ll leave it to the investigators and then to the jury who will see what the investigators find..... . ..and it;s the same with the woman an ice officer shot in her car........ it;s a matter for the investigators........

but one thing i know for certain is that neither of them would be dead today had they not chose to confront and obstruct federal law enforcement officers and attempt to keep them from doing their jobs...... .that alone is a felony - which in the case of pretti would have nullified his right to carry a gun permit on the spot.... and also nullified goods license to operate a motor vehicle since she was in control of one when she committed the crime...... at that moment both of them became felons in possession of a deadly weapon or deadly device.... ..so whether their deaths were justified or not.... (which remains to be determined)... one thing is certain - they brought it on themselves.......
Then you should be able to admit that you didn't see him brandishing a gun either.
 
Then you should be able to admit that you didn't see him brandishing a gun either.
that;s where you are wrong..... .regardless of what i saw... didn;t see... or thought i saw in a grainy chopped up and piece-mealed video.. (pieces of which might be missing) ....... whether or not the gun was in prettis hand at the moment he was shot is irrelevant - he was still brandishing a firearm....... making the fact you have a firearm on your person known to someone you are in the act of assaulting or threatening with violence - can be considered brandishing a firearm all by itself... .... ... because if you are armed and you are threatening violence... the person being threatened has every reason to believe you are ready to use that gun to shoot him.... ...the fact you have the gun is the primary factor in the threat you pose.... regardless of whether it is in your hand... stuffed in your belt... or in a holster.. ...

had the gun been in his hand when he began fighting with agents it would then become assault with a deadly weapon... .... and when the investigation is completed it might actually be called that .... none of us know yet - because... for one... none of us were there....

but back to what we can clearly see.... in the video there is a moment all the ice agents jump back away from pretti.... that is an indication that.. regardless of whatever a keyboard litigant several states away thinks he saw or didn;t see in the video - the agents previously in physical contact with pretti believed he had regained control of the gun and was ready to shoot them with it..... at that moment lethal force can be justified based on the ice agents reasonable belief he is in danger of imminent harm.... (being shot and/or killed)...

sorry.... but your man made a bad decision and your man got shot.... . killed for not just one bad personal choice but for a series of them..... ..if it was up to me i would put this on his headstone.... . not that it would do him any good.. but it would serve as a well reasoned - warning to others.... ..


consequences4.png
 
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....... whether or not the gun was in prettis hand at the moment he was shot is irrelevant - he was still brandishing a firearm....... making the fact you have a firearm on your person known to someone you are in the act of assaulting or threatening with violence - can be considered brandishing a firearm all by itself...
To whom did he make it known that he was armed? What counts as assault (physical?) in this case? What threats (verbal?) did he make that you are privy to? As much as you despise armchair assessments it appears that you have added significantly to the list of allegations against him. I hope you have evidence to support those assertions.

BTW president Trump has been backtracking on the assertions made by the administration in the immediate aftermath. Hopefully the memo gets out to the rest of the team soon.
 
To whom did he make it known that he was armed? What counts as assault (physical?) in this case? What threats (verbal?) did he make that you are privy to? As much as you despise armchair assessments it appears that you have added significantly to the list of allegations against him. I hope you have evidence to support those assertions.

BTW president Trump has been backtracking on the assertions made by the administration in the immediate aftermath. Hopefully the memo gets out to the rest of the team soon.
assault does not require contact.... assault is an intentional action that puts someone in fear of harm....

examples.... physical actions or verbal threats in a persons presence that gives them reason to believe the threats will be carried out ..or escalate to an action causing them to be injured is assault. ..... pointing a gun or raising an object or fist as if to strike someone is assault.......

actually shooting that gun ... grabbing or pushing that person..kicking them .. or hitting that person with an object or fist is battery......... .

when pretti showed up at the riot with a gun and got in the face of ice agents in a threatening manner he committed asault with a deadly weapon..... when he actually grabbed an officer whether he struck him or not he committed battery.......

do you understand so far?........
 
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I'm not fully convinced that the Pretti shooting was justifiable.

On the other hand, I also haven't seen video of the Good shooting, from any angle, that would clear her of striking the ICE guy with her car.

So we can't make a blanket statement either that ICE protesters are violent criminals (as many on the right want to do), or that they are practically saints (as many on the left want to do).

Each case has to be evaluatd on its own merits--in which case, it appears now that one shoot was likely justified, and the other possibly not.

And, as your article rightly says, they were people made in the image of God, and that means they are morally responsible for the consequences of their own actions. As they said about Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha in 2020, they shouldn't have inserted themselves into a volatile situation. I don't think either Pretti or Good deserved to die, but they did receive, as Scripture might say, the "due penalty for their error."
Would say the this is false agiatation in many respects, as those funding all of this activity are just using the events to get back at trump big time, lashing out in their borderline mental ill behavior states, and also want to get us all back to a very leftist socialist agenda
 
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