What exactly is a "Compliment" these days??

[privateuser]

...

 

[StephParker]

I'm confused.  Is this an actual conversation that took place between a pastor and one of his female church members? 

 

[movedon]

This makes me so sick!!! I can't believe any one would do this. This is proof of how the real Tom Vineyard is. i know that's his phone number so you know that's him and he was texting after 10PM! what a creeper! even OBC students have a 10PM curfew. UGH!!! this makes me so mad. how can anyone stay at that church, send their kids to WHBS, or OBC? I'm so disgusted by this.

 

[privateuser]

I'm confused.  Is this an actual conversation that took place between a pastor and one of his female church members?

Of course it is...isn't this how all pastors talk to young ladies??? <---insert sarcasm here

 

[Just me]

This makes me so sick!!! I can't believe any one would do this. This is proof of how the real Tom Vineyard is. i know that's his phone number so you know that's him and he was texting after 10PM! what a creeper! even OBC students have a 10PM curfew. UGH!!! this makes me so mad. how can anyone stay at that church, send their kids to WHBS, or OBC? I'm so disgusted by this.

puffftt.  That aint nothin.  Just a small portion.

 

[Just me]

I'm confused.  Is this an actual conversation that took place between a pastor and one of his female church members?

Of course it is...isn't this how all pastors talk to young ladies??? <---insert sarcasm here

Only the ones with zipper trouble!!  (no sarcasm here)

 

[privateuser]

From: "Tom Vineyard" <pastor@windsorhills.org> Date: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:09 pm To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear WHBC Missionary Family, I am writing to you because of gossip and rumors that have been flying around. I want you to hear from me what has happened and what has been done. Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me.
One of our deacons headed up a disciplinary committee. The discipline was handled according to Matthew 18 and according to our church’s Constitution. As part of my discipline, I was given a letter of reprimand. The situation resurfaced in March, when gossip began to circulate around church, as well as on Facebook. A second young lady, who I had tried to help reconcile with her family last fall began to communicate with the first young lady. She accused me of calling her late at night and paying her intimate compliments. She claimed to have phone records to support her claims. My wife looked at our phone records, however, and verified that there had been no such calls at the times that she had claimed. The text messages verified that there were no intimate compliments made to her. While I had talked to her on the phone, it was during the day at the church and within ear shot of the office ladies who can hear every conversation in my office.

From what I have been told, those who have an ax to grind with this ministry, me, or my dad, have jumped on the bandwagon to believe what she said and help spread the manure even farther. I met with the deacons and presented the facts. They were satisfied with them. We then had a men’s meeting to set the record straight, and it seemed at the time to have gone well. More time passed, and then it came up again this past week. A now former staff member took it on himself to research rumors about me, going all the way back to when I was in high school. He presented his research to me last Wednesday, demanding that I resign. At the same time he offered his own resignation, I took counsel again from Bro. Ross, as well as Bro. Van Manen, Hearron, Jones, and Finn, trusted men by the congregation to see if what was said disqualified me. Unanimously, they said "no," and I accepted the staff member’s resignation. Brother Ross came and spoke all day yesterday. He was such blessing in cutting through all of the hearsay, rumors, and innuendo in order to get down to what matters. I went before the church at the end of the service, confessed what I had done, and asked for forgiveness. As I did with the church, I want to ask for your forgiveness for what I have done.  I hope that this letter will answer any questions that you may have had. If you have any more, please write and ask. I hope that you can forgive me for what I did. Sincerely, Pastor

 

[privateuser]

From: "Tom Vineyard" <pastor@windsorhills.org> Date: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:09 pm To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear WHBC Missionary Family, I am writing to you because of gossip and rumors that have been flying around. I want you to hear from me what has happened and what has been done. Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me.
One of our deacons headed up a disciplinary committee. The discipline was handled according to Matthew 18 and according to our church’s Constitution. As part of my discipline, I was given a letter of reprimand. The situation resurfaced in March, when gossip began to circulate around church, as well as on Facebook. A second young lady, who I had tried to help reconcile with her family last fall began to communicate with the first young lady. She accused me of calling her late at night and paying her intimate compliments. She claimed to have phone records to support her claims. My wife looked at our phone records, however, and verified that there had been no such calls at the times that she had claimed. The text messages verified that there were no intimate compliments made to her. While I had talked to her on the phone, it was during the day at the church and within ear shot of the office ladies who can hear every conversation in my office.

From what I have been told, those who have an ax to grind with this ministry, me, or my dad, have jumped on the bandwagon to believe what she said and help spread the manure even farther. I met with the deacons and presented the facts. They were satisfied with them. We then had a men’s meeting to set the record straight, and it seemed at the time to have gone well. More time passed, and then it came up again this past week. A now former staff member took it on himself to research rumors about me, going all the way back to when I was in high school. He presented his research to me last Wednesday, demanding that I resign. At the same time he offered his own resignation, I took counsel again from Bro. Ross, as well as Bro. Van Manen, Hearron, Jones, and Finn, trusted men by the congregation to see if what was said disqualified me. Unanimously, they said "no," and I accepted the staff member’s resignation. Brother Ross came and spoke all day yesterday. He was such blessing in cutting through all of the hearsay, rumors, and innuendo in order to get down to what matters. I went before the church at the end of the service, confessed what I had done, and asked for forgiveness. As I did with the church, I want to ask for your forgiveness for what I have done.  I hope that this letter will answer any questions that you may have had. If you have any more, please write and ask. I hope that you can forgive me for what I did. Sincerely, Pastor

Since the perfume issue has been addressed on here already....lets get to the next error in question...

 

[privateuser]

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Way too many "just between you and me" remarks.

Do you know what dates these were sent? before or after the letter to the pastors?

 

[privateuser]

Way too many "just between you and me" remarks.

Do you know what dates these were sent? before or after the letter to the pastors?

they were all between the dates of August- November of 2013.  Before the letter was sent out.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Victim - "I can bring the bottles so you can see and smell them both if you want."

Predator - "Go ahead and wear it still."

Translation: "I want to get real close to you. I can't do that by sniffing a perfume bottle. If I'm smelling your perfume, I'll have a ready made excuse for being way too close to you. Thankfully, you're still innocent and naive enough not to know that I'm up to no good."

 

[kaba]

Victim - "I can bring the bottles so you can see and smell them both if you want."

Predator - "Go ahead and wear it still."

Translation: "I want to get real close to you. I can't do that by sniffing a perfume bottle. If I'm smelling your perfume, I'll have a ready made excuse for being way too close to you. Thankfully, you're still innocent and naive enough not to know that I'm up to no good."

I must be old, because I caught that too!!!

 

[privateuser]

Victim - "I can bring the bottles so you can see and smell them both if you want."

Predator - "Go ahead and wear it still."

Translation: "I want to get real close to you. I can't do that by sniffing a perfume bottle. If I'm smelling your perfume, I'll have a ready made excuse for being way too close to you. Thankfully, you're still innocent and naive enough not to know that I'm up to no good."

Sad part is that the "victim" knew what he was up to but couldn't say anything because there was not enough proof and if she were to not respond, she would have been bombarded with "WHATS WRONG!?? COME TO MY OFFICE!!"

 

[TruthBearer]

From: "Tom Vineyard" <pastor@windsorhills.org> Date: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:09 pm To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear WHBC Missionary Family, I am writing to you because of gossip and rumors that have been flying around. I want you to hear from me what has happened and what has been done. Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me.
One of our deacons headed up a disciplinary committee. The discipline was handled according to Matthew 18 and according to our church’s Constitution. As part of my discipline, I was given a letter of reprimand. The situation resurfaced in March, when gossip began to circulate around church, as well as on Facebook. A second young lady, who I had tried to help reconcile with her family last fall began to communicate with the first young lady. She accused me of calling her late at night and paying her intimate compliments. She claimed to have phone records to support her claims. My wife looked at our phone records, however, and verified that there had been no such calls at the times that she had claimed. The text messages verified that there were no intimate compliments made to her. While I had talked to her on the phone, it was during the day at the church and within ear shot of the office ladies who can hear every conversation in my office.

From what I have been told, those who have an ax to grind with this ministry, me, or my dad, have jumped on the bandwagon to believe what she said and help spread the manure even farther. I met with the deacons and presented the facts. They were satisfied with them. We then had a men’s meeting to set the record straight, and it seemed at the time to have gone well. More time passed, and then it came up again this past week. A now former staff member took it on himself to research rumors about me, going all the way back to when I was in high school. He presented his research to me last Wednesday, demanding that I resign. At the same time he offered his own resignation, I took counsel again from Bro. Ross, as well as Bro. Van Manen, Hearron, Jones, and Finn, trusted men by the congregation to see if what was said disqualified me. Unanimously, they said "no," and I accepted the staff member’s resignation. Brother Ross came and spoke all day yesterday. He was such blessing in cutting through all of the hearsay, rumors, and innuendo in order to get down to what matters. I went before the church at the end of the service, confessed what I had done, and asked for forgiveness. As I did with the church, I want to ask for your forgiveness for what I have done.  I hope that this letter will answer any questions that you may have had. If you have any more, please write and ask. I hope that you can forgive me for what I did. Sincerely, Pastor

Would any reasonable thinking person believe someone accused of what Tommy Boy did believe he is innocent just because he said so in a letter?

Obviously up to 45 families thought different regardless of the spin he puts on his version of the story.

According to the Bible Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

This letter states he consulted with respected men of the church and they all said that he did nothing wrong according to the church's constitution. I never knew that adultery was approved with their constitution, (or do they not believe this verse?).

But then it was accepted when Paul was whoring around in the Philippine's and abandoned his family back in the states and remarried another whore, a practicing adulterer by Biblical standards and then allowed to pray from the pulpit at a youth conference. Adultery was not a big deal back then and it still is not a big deal now. At least when a Vineyard is the accused.

 

[TruthBearer]

I wonder if this college girl was offered an Honorary OBC Doctorate if she dropped the issue or played it down like it was just an innocent conversation?

 

[Walt]

In my opinion, the tone of the messages is flirtatious on his part.

I get the idea that she was a bit uncomfortable, but didn't know how to handle such texts from her supposed MOG.

I don't know if I would stay there, but if this is a sample of what was happening, I don't think it warrants as a pastor-disqualifying action.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I don't know if I would stay there, but if this is a sample of what was happening, I don't think it warrants as a pastor-disqualifying action.

So, you probably wouldn't stay there and have him as your pastor, but this doesn't disqualify him from being someone else's pastor?

 

[TruthBearer]

In my opinion, the tone of the messages is flirtatious on his part.

I get the idea that she was a bit uncomfortable, but didn't know how to handle such texts from her supposed MOG.

I don't know if I would stay there, but if this is a sample of what was happening, I don't think it warrants as a pastor-disqualifying action.

So how far would a Pastor have to go with a secret relationship with another woman before you would consider it a pastor disqualifying action?

In my opinion anyone in a leadership role should be held to a higher standard of conduct or they would not be able to counsel someone heading down a wrong path that could lead to a disqualifying action.

 

[Walt]

I don't know if I would stay there, but if this is a sample of what was happening, I don't think it warrants as a pastor-disqualifying action.

So, you probably wouldn't stay there and have him as your pastor, but this doesn't disqualify him from being someone else's pastor?

I said that I didn't know if I would stay; it would depend upon other factors.  It doesn't look good, but it could be innocent friendship... I'm trying to hold open the possibility of innocent before assuming the probability of guilt.