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Audie

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Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.

Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.


I'm new to this Forum & I apologize if I posted this topic in the wrong category.

I know there are Pastors that mess up. There are Pastors that backslide, make mistakes & get caught up in the cares of this world. We're all sinners right?

I'm very curious to know what others think about a Pastor of a Church that has repeatedly been caught having "relations" with women in his Church & women outside of his Church. He is also the "president" of a biker club. He's been caught drunk, he chews tobacco, he pops pills and smokes Marijuana. He went from a "suit & tie" pastor to a biker pastor, wearing his "cut", Harley boots, & sleeveless Harley tshirts while preaching.

So what is everyones opinion on a Pastor that carries on like this?

Don't get me wrong, I'm am NOT spreading rumors that I've heard about him. I personally witnessed the drugs & alcohol & the filthy language. I personally talked to 7 different women that were thrown out of the Church for "causing trouble", for "being dramatic", for being "compulsive liars". Their stories floored me.

The Pastor has been divorced 2 times and is on his 3rd marriage over these behaviors.

I feel so duped. I use to back him 100 percent. I remodeled the Church (inside & out). Whatever needed to be done I was there. I literally got into fist fights for this guy. I'm not bragging on me at all, I'm just showing that I was ALL IN for this Church & the Pastor. I feel like a fool.

After confronting him on all this garbage, he got extremely angry & basically told me that I was a lost cause & that if I go against him I'm going against God.

This Church was once titled as an Independent Baptist Church but has dropped Baptist & is now
" _______ Bible Church"

After 25 yrs of dedication to this Church, I'm now out of Church. I'm basically a Church hopper now, unable to find a Church that Preaches hard & feeds me the Bible. I feel so broken. I need a Church home.

Opinions? Suggestions? Advice?

Also, I apologize for the poor grammar & any misspellings.
 
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your experiences and current situation of feeling adrift from church. Much could be said, and others will offer some help I’m sure, but might I suggest not looking for a church that does “hard preaching” but rather preaches the gospel and grace of Jesus Christ. I know you may not be familiar with what I’m referring to, if you have been accustomed to IFB-type “hard preaching”. By the way, I say all of that as an independent Baptist preacher.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your experiences and current situation of feeling adrift from church. Much could be said, and others will offer some help I’m sure, but might I suggest not looking for a church that does “hard preaching” but rather preaches the gospel and grace of Jesus Christ. I know you may not be familiar with what I’m referring to, if you have been accustomed to IFB-type “hard preaching”. By the way, I say all of that as an independent Baptist preacher.
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I understand what your saying & you are right. I appreciate the advice, I will continue to search & definitely be more open minded about it.
 
Audie said:
I'm very curious to know what others think about a Pastor of a Church that has repeatedly been caught having "relations" with women in his Church & women outside of his Church. He is also the "president" of a biker club. He's been caught drunk, he chews tobacco, he pops pills and smokes Marijuana. He went from a "suit & tie" pastor to a biker pastor, wearing his "cut", Harley boots, & sleeveless Harley tshirts while preaching.
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Suit and tie don't indicate a qualified pastor nor does wearing a cut and boots indicate an unquantified pastor. It's the heart that the pastor has that allows him to engage in fleshly behaviors that disqualifies.

I am a member of the Christian Motorcyclist Association (CMA) and I am a chapter president. I represent Christ first and foremost, but I also represent CMA and my chapter. Yes, I frequently wear my cut at church. It was members of our church who have since moved on that got me interested in CMA. CMA is known and respected amongst the motorcycling community, even among 1%ers. If you're wearing your cut while doing something that's against CMA policy, biker clubs have been known to call the wayward CMAer into account.

You fit very well in this forum having been burned by someone who was supposed to be trusted. I encourage you to stick around. We may get a bit wild around here but overall, this is a great bunch of people who genuinely care and as much as possible want to be of help.

As for looking for a church that preaches hard, I'd be careful. You've already experienced "hard" preaching and the pitfalls that often accompany it. Instead, look for someone who preaches from a humble heart who loves the Word and teaches the WHOLE counsel of the Word. IMHO, a church that is committed to teaching the Word expositionally will be your best bet. I attend a Calvary Chapel, been so for well over 20 years and I'm very content with it. But don't look for a name... there are kooks in every organization.

Welcome and even if we rib you a bit, I hope you find some edification here.

I'll see if I can move this thread to a more appropriate forum.
 
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Welcome to the forum!

First of all, Paul says "Be ye followers of me even as I am a follower of Christ" (1 Cor 11:1). Pastoral and ecclesiastical authority is therefore quite biblical and is something for which we must give heed.

Notice how Paul qualified his statement. He exhorts people to follow him but also gives them the responsibility to ensure he is following Christ! We are not to follow the "man" but are to follow his example (Heb 13:7).

What you are describing here seems to be someone who is no longer "Following Christ" and seems to be quite arrogant and unrepentant about it. It is the responsibility of your Church to confront this pastor who seems to no longer meet the standards for the "Office of a Bishop!" If your congregation is one that places a great importance upon the authority of scripture, this should not be a problem. If it is a weak congregation who just goes along with whatever a pastor with a "Personality" says, then there are some deeper issues and you need to do what is best for yourself and your family.

IFBers seem to make the repeated mistake to place men upon a pedestal and make them their "hero!" Jack Hyles is the ultimate example here and even though he is long gone, his memory and influence continue to live on. If you have any knowledge and experience in the IFB world, you know that it has been broken apart into many different sects and "Camps" with each having its particular "Guru" who seems to be running the show and calling the shots. While there are still some very good IFB congregations out there, there is little to no recourse to be had when one of these congregations go "south."

You really need to find some good counseling from someone who can take an objective view. My recommendation would be to look into the "9 Marks" website and check into some of the resources they have there. Most of these congregations are eldership led which may be a bit of a "Culture Shock" to you but such a structure gives a much greater stability than a single authoritarian pastor in a Congregational Rule situation. In an Eldership-Led Church, the "Senior Pastor" (an elder himself) is accountable to the eldership who also keeps him accountable to the congregation! Such may not become your "Permanent Home" but I am betting they would be of great help regaining the trust of those in Church leadership and getting you established wherever God would have you to be.

Many of us have been in messed up Church situations in the past so rest assured that you are not alone here! By God's grace, many of us are now on the "other side" and can perhaps be an encouragement to those looking for healing and stability themselves?
 
Audie said:
I understand what your saying & you are right. I appreciate the advice, I will continue to search & definitely be more open minded about it.
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My only other preliminary helpful hint is to caution you to not throw the baby out with the bath, so to speak. As abcaines suggested, people on this forum have been where you are and know MANY similar stories, some of which left the “hard preaching” style of church and ran to the other side of the ditch (there’s an old term we used round here to describe that phenomenon called “Freebirds”).
 
abcaines said:
Suit and tie don't indicate a qualified pastor nor does wearing a cut and boots indicate an unquantified pastor. It's the heart that the pastor has that allows him to engage in fleshly behaviors that disqualifies.

I am a member of the Christian Motorcyclist Association (CMA) and I am a chapter president. I represent Christ first and foremost, but I also represent CMA and my chapter. Yes, I frequently wear my cut at church. It was members of our church who have since moved on that got me interested in CMA. CMA is known and respected amongst the motorcycling community, even among 1%ers. If you're wearing your cut while doing something that's against CMA policy, biker clubs have been known to call the wayward Camera into account.

You fit very well in this forum having been burned by someone who was supposed to be trusted. I encourage you to stick around. We may get a bit wild around here but overall, this is a great bunch of people who genuinely care and as much as possible want to be of help.

As for looking for a church that preaches hard, I'd be careful. You've already experienced "hard" preaching and the pitfalls that often accompany it. Instead, look for someone who preaches from a humble heart who loves the Word and teaches the WHOLE counsel of the Word. IMHO, a church that is committed to teaching the Word expositionally will be your best bet. I attend a Calvary Chapel, been so for well over 20 years and I'm very content with it. But don't look for a name... there are kooks in every organization.

Welcome and even if we rib you a bit, I hope you find some edification here.

I'll see if I can move this thread to a more appropriate forum.
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Thanks for replying. I want you to know that I was not downgrading him for wearing his "cut" etc at Church. When he first announced he was going to start a bikers ministry, I was all for it. But over the course of a few months this change occurred. He changed his appearance, started working out & showing off "his guns". I was trying to point out that he simply changed.
Guess it would've been easier for me to say he "changed" rather than ramble on about it huh? LoL

Thanks for your advice, I'll definitely take it to heart as I continue to search for a Church.
 
ALAYMAN said:
My only other preliminary helpful hint is to caution you to not throw the baby out with the bath, so to speak. As abcaines suggested, people on this forum have been where you are and know MANY similar stories, some of which left the “hard preaching” style of church and ran to the other side of the ditch (there’s an old term we used round here to describe that phenomenon called “Freebirds”).
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There is a good bit of "Carnage" that has resulted from those who left abusive and cultic congregations and did not handle things right at all! Many have walked away from the faith, apostatized, and want nothing to do with biblical Christianity! First things first is to ensure you are standing on a firm biblical foundation and your hope and confidence is in Christ?
 
Baptist Renegade said:
There is a good bit of "Carnage" that has resulted from those who left abusive and cultic congregations and did not handle things right at all! Many have walked away from the faith, apostatized, and want nothing to do with biblical Christianity! First things first is to ensure you are standing on a firm biblical foundation and your hope and confidence is in Christ?
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I think most, or at least MANY in such congregations have heard and accepted the true gospel, but they’ve often heard and seen horrible doctrine/examples on sanctification. That’s my bet in this case.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
There is a good bit of "Carnage" that has resulted from those who left abusive and cultic congregations and did not handle things right at all! Many have walked away from the faith, apostatized, and want nothing to do with biblical Christianity! First things first is to ensure you are standing on a firm biblical foundation and your hope and confidence is in Christ?
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I am Saved by The Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not going to lie, being out of Church is definitely taking a toll on me spiritually.
 
Audie said:
I am Saved by The Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not going to lie, being out of Church is definitely taking a toll on me spiritually.
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That makes good Biblical sense. We are a body fitly joined together to edify one another. Eph 4:16
 
Audie said:
I am Saved by The Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not going to lie, being out of Church is definitely taking a toll on me spiritually.
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Glad to hear! I remember how I felt when I walked away from the "Model IFB Church" I was attending at the time and had no idea where or what I was going to do next!

It ought to bother you and you need to worry if it ever stops bothering you! Take a few weeks or so and be the spiritual leader of your house with your family. Pray together with your wife regarding what steps you will take next.

I bounced around a couple of congregations until I found myself completely outside of my comfort zone in a non-denominational "Bible" Church that used the NASB and "Drums" in their worship service! It was where God wanted me to be and I learned so much from the experience!
 
  • TRUTH!
Reactions: Jo
Audie said:
I am Saved by The Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not going to lie, being out of Church is definitely taking a toll on me spiritually.
Click to expand...
Understood. Enjoy the freedom you have in Christ. There are valid reasons you left but changes are hard - even when they're good for us.

You'll find a group of believers to fellowship with. You might even look back in ten years and wish you had done it sooner.
 
Audie hasn't been seen here since September. I pray all is well for him and his family. I pray they've found a good congregation where they can minister and be ministered to.
 
abcaines said:
Suit and tie don't indicate a qualified pastor nor does wearing a cut and boots indicate an unquantified pastor. It's the heart that the pastor has that allows him to engage in fleshly behaviors that disqualifies.
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Unquantified? :p
 
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