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This is right up your alley... What say ye?
 
The 'critical mistake' that people make when they quit a job

Depends on what they want me to sign, I guess. Severance pay in lieu of two weeks' notice? Sure. A non-disclosure agreement? Fine--disclosing my former employer's intellectual property would be tantamount to theft anyway.

A non-compete? Maybe not, and I might just forego that extra severance as a result. In some situations, a non-compete clause might well be forced unemployment if it bars me from seeking similar work. Fortunately, such a clause has been unenforceable in Ontario for a couple of years.

So I was just fired, and I refuse to sign your papers. What are you going to do, fire me?
 
This is right up your alley... What say ye?
Sorry for the answer-non answer, but it really depends on the type of job and conditions of one’s contract. My suggestion would be to ask for an attorney to preview before ever signing any type of potentially life-impacting contract.
 
Sorry for the answer-non answer, but it really depends on the type of job and conditions of one’s contract. My suggestion would be to ask for an attorney to preview before ever signing any type of potentially life-impacting contract.
Pretty much what Ransom said. Fair enough.
 
Interesting topic. Long time ago, I was in a meeting with one of the company's lawyers, my boss, and the HR manager. I mentioned the EEOC. (BTW, all I wanted was a job description, which they did not have for at least a year.)

I was told, "If you mention the EEOC again, you'll be fired!" I wasn't expecting that. Guess who said it? The attorney:(

Out of the corner of my eye, I could see my boss waving her arms at him to "say" " You can't say that!"

The next day, I received a memo recanting his statement.

So many stories, so little time.
 
This thread hits too close to home. 12 years ago, after 20+ years with my company, a new contractor came in and said that continued employment would be under the rubric of benefits that were described in language of ā€œsame or similarā€, but the actual changes that they were ultimately going to employ was a removal of our pension, as well as loss of retiree insurance. So much for ā€œsame or similarā€. That change is the very reason that I am still locked in to employment with them today. Should have never signed.šŸ™
 
This thread hits too close to home. 12 years ago, after 20+ years with my company, a new contractor came in and said that continued employment would be under the rubric of benefits that were described in language of ā€œsame or similarā€, but the actual changes that they were ultimately going to employ was a removal of our pension, as well as loss of retiree insurance. So much for ā€œsame or similarā€. That change is the very reason that I am still locked in to employment with them today. Should have never signed.šŸ™
The ā€œsameā€ was okay, it was the ā€œsimilarā€ that was the crux of the issue…how do they quantify ā€œsimilar.ā€
 
Interesting topic. Long time ago, I was in a meeting with one of the company's lawyers, my boss, and the HR manager. I mentioned the EEOC. (BTW, all I wanted was a job description, which they did not have for at least a year.)

I was told, "If you mention the EEOC again, you'll be fired!" I wasn't expecting that. Guess who said it? The attorney:(

Out of the corner of my eye, I could see my boss waving her arms at him to "say" " You can't say that!"

The next day, I received a memo recanting his statement.

So many stories, so little time.
Great story. I have no qualms saying there are some real idiots who are attorneys!
 
Great story. I have no qualms saying there are some real idiots who are attorneys!
It's like every profession. There are good and bad ducks.

Fortunately, I now work for an attorney whom I greatly admire.

The other one became the top dude at the company. His bio says that he made great strides in developing job descriptions for the employees......hardee har har.

I have heard the company is floundering. I wish the company well. They are based on Christian values, although for decades they did not hire blacks. It was an unwritten rule, which I couldn't believe when I heard it.

I still struggle with resentment about the situation, but am thankful I'm not there anymore. I gave it all I had over 15 years.
 
It's like every profession. There are good and bad ducks.

Fortunately, I now work for an attorney whom I greatly admire.

The other one became the top dude at the company. His bio says that he made great strides in developing job descriptions for the employees......hardee har har.

I have heard the company is floundering. I wish the company well. They are based on Christian values, although for decades they did not hire blacks. It was an unwritten rule, which I couldn't believe when I heard it.

I still struggle with resentment about the situation, but am thankful I'm not there anymore. I gave it all I had over 15 years.
Are you a paralegal?
 
This thread hits too close to home. 12 years ago, after 20+ years with my company, a new contractor came in and said that continued employment would be under the rubric of benefits that were described in language of ā€œsame or similarā€, but the actual changes that they were ultimately going to employ was a removal of our pension, as well as loss of retiree insurance. So much for ā€œsame or similarā€. That change is the very reason that I am still locked in to employment with them today. Should have never signed.šŸ™
That stinks.

I'm assuming you were pretty well vested in the company's pension; what happened? Did they leave you high and dry or were you bought out and able to roll over into an IRA or something?
 
I guess I have never been fired, so I was never asked to sign anything like those things mentioned. I have quit many jobs, and the only thing I ever signed was when I quit UPS, I signed something that said I voluntarily left the Teamsters Union. They gave me a card that said for the rest of my life I would not have to pay a fee to re-join the Teamsters.

This was a good thread. If I ever get fired, I will call my best friend, an attorney, immediately.
 
That stinks.

I'm assuming you were pretty well vested in the company's pension; what happened? Did they leave you high and dry or were you bought out and able to roll over into an IRA or something?

I will really have to try to keep this long story short, probably won’t succeed, lol…

TLDR; version… they bought our pension out, and I rolled it over to a 401(k), but I don’t ever have the option of retirement insurance through the company.


After 16 years of work with them, in the midst of a family crisis, where me and ALAYWIFE had been seeking to have children for over 10 years, and had recently been blessed with the miraculous news that ALAYBOY was going to be born, I was given a layoff notice that was supposed to be permanent right around Christmas time. Talk about mountains and valleys rollercoasters of emotions. Within one to two weeks after the layoff I had a job lined up for next fall as a school science teacher, even though I didn’t have a teaching certificate. That was because I had a masters degree in science, and Ohio was very much in a crunch for science teachers. God was opening doors in a very amazing way. I had actually thought about being a teacher, but never wanted to abandon all that I had invested in my career to pursue that option. About the same time that I had that teaching gig lined up after only a couple weeks the company called me and said you can have your job back with the same pay and same benefits, like nothing had changed. I had to think long and hard about that because I was more than halfway to the goal of retirement. So in the end, I decided not to go the teaching route and elected to go back to the lab. All that meant that I would be eligible for full retirement at 53.5 years of age (17 years away at the time).

Fast forward to the next chapter, and the era of uranium enrichment ended with the decommissioning of my facility. That meant the deconstruction would begin in 2011. It was at that time that the prime contractor was chosen and the language that I mentioned in the previous post was floated past us. We had to make decisions pretty quick in order to retain our benefits and salary. Huk’s advice should have been something that I followed, but I wasn’t thinking about 16-17 years down the road. My vocation in this area is one of the best career paths and salary packages in a fairly economically depressed area, so it was not that hard of a choice to continue with the company rather than trying to look for something else, which probably would mean relocation.

Their offer was to basically continue with the same job classification, salary and benefits, with the exception of the pension and retirement insurance. In lieu of the pension, they gave us a modest and compensatory incentive. In the grand scheme of things, it was really a hose job, but I capitulated. As it turned out, because of the fact that the site had a union and the sister company in Paducah Kentucky got an actual pension buyout shortly after their decommissioning occurred (largely due to Mitch McConnell’s influence), our site supplied a similar buyout for salaried (like myself) and Union employees. If you compare the average lifespan for a male and assume that I lived to that age, the buyout was probably a third of the value of what a pension would have paid out, so even the buyout was a betrayal.

But worse than all of that, because I don’t have an extremely high materialistic outlook, I could have gotten by right now on my 401(k) and savings if I only had reasonable retirement healthcare insurance coverage. But you know what they say about wishing in one hand and crapping in the other, and seeing which one fills up first. I could choose my teacher-wife’s insurance option, but that would just mean that she works longer than we we want her to have to work.

One of the real kicks in the stomach was that I was working alongside people who were ā€œ double dippingā€, meaning that they retired and began drawing their pension, all the while working right beside me, doing the same job, making the same salary as they were the day before they retired.

Don’t get me wrong, God has been extremely good to me, and I am unbelievably blessed, in more ways than I can tell you in this already fairly long post. Many people my age have been caught up in that trend that occurred in the early 2005-2015 economy where business has began moving away from funding traditional pension plans, so my story is not all that uncommon. It’s still not pleasant to think about, and it is one of those few things that I have to fight that root of bitterness from popping up. Not so much because of the sheer financial reasons, but that is one of the factors that has contributed to my inability to pivot to full-time ministry. I could go on about this subject but as you see, it is already long enough and I know that God has all things happen for a reason and I take contentment and solace in Him and his sovereignty.
 
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I will really have to try to keep this long story short, probably won’t succeed, lol…

TLDR; version… they bought our pension out, and I rolled it over to a 401(k), but I don’t ever have the option of retirement insurance through the company.


After 16 years of work with them, in the midst of a family crisis, where me and ALAYWIFE had been seeking to have children for over 10 years, and had recently been blessed with the miraculous news that ALAYBOY was going to be born, I was given a layoff notice that was supposed to be permanent right around Christmas time. Talk about mountains and valleys rollercoasters of emotions. Within one to two weeks after the layoff I had a job lined up for next fall as a school science teacher, even though I didn’t have a teaching certificate. That was because I had a masters degree in science, and Ohio was very much in a crunch for science teachers. God was opening doors in a very amazing way. I had actually thought about being a teacher, but never wanted to abandon all that I had invested in my career to pursue that option. About the same time that I had that teaching gig lined up after only a couple weeks the company called me and said you can have your job back with the same pay and same benefits, like nothing had changed. I had to think long and hard about that because I was more than halfway to the goal of retirement. So in the end, I decided not to go the teaching route and elected to go back to the lab. All that meant that I would be eligible for full retirement at 53.5 years of age (17 years away at the time).

Fast forward to the next chapter, and the era of uranium enrichment ended with the decommissioning of my facility. That meant the deconstruction would begin in 2011. It was at that time that the prime contractor was chosen and the language that I mentioned in the previous post was floated past us. We had to make decisions pretty quick in order to retain our benefits and salary. Huk’s advice should have been something that I followed, but I wasn’t thinking about 16-17 years down the road. My vocation in this area is one of the best career paths and salary packages in a fairly economically depressed area, so it was not that hard of a choice to continue with the company rather than trying to look for something else, which probably would mean relocation.

Their offer was to basically continue with the same job classification, salary and benefits, with the exception of the pension and retirement insurance. In lieu of the pension, they gave us a modest and compensatory incentive. In the grand scheme of things, it was really a hose job, but I capitulated. As it turned out, because of the fact that the site had a union and the sister company in Paducah Kentucky got an actual pension buyout shortly after their decommissioning occurred (largely due to Mitch McConnell’s influence), our site supplied a similar buyout for salaried (like myself) and Union employees. If you compare the average lifespan for a male and assume that I lived to that age, the buyout was probably a third of the value of what a pension would have paid out, so even the buyout was a betrayal.

But worse than all of that, because I don’t have an extremely high materialistic outlook, I could have gotten by right now on my 401(k) and savings if I only had reasonable retirement healthcare insurance coverage. But you know what they say about wishing in one hand and crapping in the other, and seeing which one fills up first. I could choose my teacher-wife’s insurance option, but that would just mean that she works longer than we we want her to have to work.

One of the real kicks in the stomach was that I was working alongside people who were ā€œ double dippingā€, meaning that they retired and began drawing their pension, all the while working right beside me, doing the same job, making the same salary as they were the day before they retired.

Don’t get me wrong, God has been extremely good to me, and I am unbelievably blessed, in more ways than I can tell you in this already fairly long post. Many people my age have been caught up in that trend that occurred in the early 2005-2015 economy where business has began moving away from funding traditional pension plans, so my story is not all that uncommon. It’s still not pleasant to think about, and it is one of those few things that I have to fight that root of bitterness from popping up. Not so much because of the sheer financial reasons, but that is one of the factors that has contributed to my inability to pivot to full-time ministry. I could go on about this subject but as you see, it is already long enough and I know that God has all things happen for a reason and I take contentment and solace in Him and his sovereignty.
I get the gist of what you are saying. Ultimately you will be taken care of; just not the way you were hoping. It still stings when promises were made to you then broken.

I'd rather be told "we have nothing for you" than for a company to start out promising a pension and insurance then renege. I accidentally did some smart things with my finances when I was younger and now, present administration excepted, I am looking forward to enjoying a small nest egg in a few years. It's not huge but it beats the bait and switch you have experienced.

The principle of James 5:4 comes to mind in this and other such cases and we have to commit ourselves to the Lord and trust He will make things right.
 
I will really have to try to keep this long story short, probably won’t succeed, lol…

TLDR; version… they bought our pension out, and I rolled it over to a 401(k), but I don’t ever have the option of retirement insurance through the company.


After 16 years of work with them, in the midst of a family crisis, where me and ALAYWIFE had been seeking to have children for over 10 years, and had recently been blessed with the miraculous news that ALAYBOY was going to be born, I was given a layoff notice that was supposed to be permanent right around Christmas time. Talk about mountains and valleys rollercoasters of emotions. Within one to two weeks after the layoff I had a job lined up for next fall as a school science teacher, even though I didn’t have a teaching certificate. That was because I had a masters degree in science, and Ohio was very much in a crunch for science teachers. God was opening doors in a very amazing way. I had actually thought about being a teacher, but never wanted to abandon all that I had invested in my career to pursue that option. About the same time that I had that teaching gig lined up after only a couple weeks the company called me and said you can have your job back with the same pay and same benefits, like nothing had changed. I had to think long and hard about that because I was more than halfway to the goal of retirement. So in the end, I decided not to go the teaching route and elected to go back to the lab. All that meant that I would be eligible for full retirement at 53.5 years of age (17 years away at the time).

Fast forward to the next chapter, and the era of uranium enrichment ended with the decommissioning of my facility. That meant the deconstruction would begin in 2011. It was at that time that the prime contractor was chosen and the language that I mentioned in the previous post was floated past us. We had to make decisions pretty quick in order to retain our benefits and salary. Huk’s advice should have been something that I followed, but I wasn’t thinking about 16-17 years down the road. My vocation in this area is one of the best career paths and salary packages in a fairly economically depressed area, so it was not that hard of a choice to continue with the company rather than trying to look for something else, which probably would mean relocation.

Their offer was to basically continue with the same job classification, salary and benefits, with the exception of the pension and retirement insurance. In lieu of the pension, they gave us a modest and compensatory incentive. In the grand scheme of things, it was really a hose job, but I capitulated. As it turned out, because of the fact that the site had a union and the sister company in Paducah Kentucky got an actual pension buyout shortly after their decommissioning occurred (largely due to Mitch McConnell’s influence), our site supplied a similar buyout for salaried (like myself) and Union employees. If you compare the average lifespan for a male and assume that I lived to that age, the buyout was probably a third of the value of what a pension would have paid out, so even the buyout was a betrayal.

But worse than all of that, because I don’t have an extremely high materialistic outlook, I could have gotten by right now on my 401(k) and savings if I only had reasonable retirement healthcare insurance coverage. But you know what they say about wishing in one hand and crapping in the other, and seeing which one fills up first. I could choose my teacher-wife’s insurance option, but that would just mean that she works longer than we we want her to have to work.

One of the real kicks in the stomach was that I was working alongside people who were ā€œ double dippingā€, meaning that they retired and began drawing their pension, all the while working right beside me, doing the same job, making the same salary as they were the day before they retired.

Don’t get me wrong, God has been extremely good to me, and I am unbelievably blessed, in more ways than I can tell you in this already fairly long post. Many people my age have been caught up in that trend that occurred in the early 2005-2015 economy where business has began moving away from funding traditional pension plans, so my story is not all that uncommon. It’s still not pleasant to think about, and it is one of those few things that I have to fight that root of bitterness from popping up. Not so much because of the sheer financial reasons, but that is one of the factors that has contributed to my inability to pivot to full-time ministry. I could go on about this subject but as you see, it is already long enough and I know that God has all things happen for a reason and I take contentment and solace in Him and his sovereignty.
Did they give you the option of a buyout vs retaining your pension?
 
My wife and I refused to sign anything from our former employer back in the mid 90s until 2000 without first having it sent to our attorney for review. At on point I was put on suspension without pay for doing so, but, after talking to the NLRB that was changed. The company totally destroyed our benefits and my wife and I lost a combined $100k+, and as the stock went from over $45 per share down to 44 cents a share, we lost a LOT more. The company went bankrupt and still paid the CEO who ran it into the ground a $45 million bonus on top of two years salary of $85 million. Our attorney was very happy that we didn't sign any of these things because we would have not even had the opportunity to collect on the 45 cents a share we had left as the bankruptcy was filed on the hush hush.....
 
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My wife and I refused to sign anything from our former employer back in the mid 90s until 2000 without first having it sent to our attorney for review. At on point I was put on suspension without pay for doing so, but, after talking to the NLRB that was changed. The company totally destroyed our benefits and my wife and I lost a combined $100k+, and as the stock went from over $45 per share down to 44 cents a share, we lost a LOT more. The company went bankrupt and still paid the CEO who ran it into the ground a $45 million bonus on top of two years salary of $85 million. Our attorney was very happy that we didn't sign any of these things because we would have not even had the opportunity to collect on the 45 cents a share we had left as the bankruptcy was filed on the hush hush.....
Again, the principle of James 5:4...
 
Did they give you the option of a buyout vs retaining your pension?
I think you would find the historical documentary of the contractor situation more interesting than my own personal account.

To the best of my memory, the reason they had some leverage in getting people to sign was because they claimed that the operations contractor was changing, which is true, and therefore our years of service would no longer continue to add towards our pension accrual. What that effectively meant was that with somebody who only had 16-17 years of service as in my case (and my future years of employment with a new contractor would not add to those numbers) the small pension that would be paid out, would not be as effective as the money in hand at the moment. I didn’t do any kind of numbers crunch to verify the validity of that.
 
I get the gist of what you are saying. Ultimately you will be taken care of; just not the way you were hoping. It still stings when promises were made to you then broken.

Yes, exactly right! And now for the double whammy, my wife got caught up in the same kind of thing, but just not to that magnitude that I did. As a teacher, she started at 22 years old and about six years ago the Ohio teachers pension fund changed to where she hast to work an extra five years now. She would’ve gotten to retire, theoretically, at the same time that I would have gotten to retire (at the end of this school year), but now she also has been extended. Pretty much a bait and switch.
…

I accidentally did some smart things with my finances when I was younger and now, present administration excepted, I am looking forward to enjoying a small nest egg in a few years.

Cool, care to share?
 
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