Wow...We're always being told....

[AverageJoe]

that the Bible is complete and preserved in the English language and can be trusted....Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......
The above is an exact quote from someone I dealt with a few years back. I know we have to have an understanding of the words in the Bible, what they mean, where they came from, and how they affect our lives. But, these people who say this kind of thing DO HAVE A POINT! It's hard to effectively reach people with such obvious contradictions in what we're telling them. I can fully understand their frustration and empathize/sympathize with them.
Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations? I mean, this is interesting to me, because few pastors have the answer and sputter, turn red-faced, and dodge the question or call people "heretics" because they are questioned. Shameful.

 

[FSSL]

Having spent many years, learning Greek and Hebrew, I can tell you that I found the English translations to be pretty good.

It might surprise you, I find the NIV to be one of the more accurate translations out there. The wonderful thing about that is it is an easy to read English version.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

that the Bible is complete and preserved in the English language and can be trusted....Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......
The above is an exact quote from someone I dealt with a few years back. I know we have to have an understanding of the words in the Bible, what they mean, where they came from, and how they affect our lives. But, these people who say this kind of thing DO HAVE A POINT! It's hard to effectively reach people with such obvious contradictions in what we're telling them. I can fully understand their frustration and empathize/sympathize with them.
Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations? I mean, this is interesting to me, because few pastors have the answer and sputter, turn red-faced, and dodge the question or call people "heretics" because they are questioned. Shameful.

that the Bible is complete and preserved in the English language and can be trusted....Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......
The above is an exact quote from someone I dealt with a few years back. I know we have to have an understanding of the words in the Bible, what they mean, where they came from, and how they affect our lives. But, these people who say this kind of thing DO HAVE A POINT! It's hard to effectively reach people with such obvious contradictions in what we're telling them. I can fully understand their frustration and empathize/sympathize with them.
Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations? I mean, this is interesting to me, because few pastors have the answer and sputter, turn red-faced, and dodge the question or call people "heretics" because they are questioned. Shameful.

I agree. I think this whole “Greek & Hebrew” thing is a form of elitism, and quite frankly, someone learning a rustic tad bit of it at some small, unaccredited (most likely) Bible college doesn’t really impress me very much. (See…that’s an example of my own elitism.)

 

[FSSL]

It's the self-taught Greek people that are the elitists... have you met one?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

It's the self-taught Greek people that are the elitists... have you met one?

Nah, I had to learn enough Latin that it made me appreciate good plain ol’ Southern American English

 

[abcaines]

Because modern English is so heavily influenced by other languages, learning another language is especially helpful for all English speakers whether studying the Bible or not.

I've not taken a full course on Greek or Hebrew but I've read enough from an interlinear NT to realize how helpful learning Greek is. I am grateful for scholars who spend a lifetime studying ancient languages.

 

[AverageJoe]

Having spent many years, learning Greek and Hebrew, I can tell you that I found the English translations to be pretty good.

It might surprise you, I find the NIV to be one of the more accurate translations out there. The wonderful thing about that is it is an easy to read English version.

I studied it some when in college, but had a lot of it during my teen years in church and Christian school back in the 1970s. I might be a bit rusty, but, I still know how to look it back up if I question something.
As far as the NIV goes, I've never been a huge fan of the translation, but, you're correct. It's one of the easier versions to read. In the Cowboy Church movement that I was helping in several years back, they use what they refer to as a translation, but, I believe it's more of a paraphrase. Some have slowly migrated to using the NKJV. You, like me, were probably taught using the KJV. I like the version and use it in my preaching and teaching. But, I am comfortable using any of them. God's message doesn't change just because one is using different wording. What do you think of the NASB?

 

[AverageJoe]

Because modern English is so heavily influenced by other languages, learning another language is especially helpful for all English speakers whether studying the Bible or not.

I've not taken a full course on Greek or Hebrew but I've read enough from an interlinear NT to realize how helpful learning Greek is. I am grateful for scholars who spend a lifetime studying ancient languages.

I agree, but, I also see and agree with HUK that it often comes across as a kind of elitism to many. It reminds me of my days in the Greek Orthodox church with my ex-fiance....they would put the emphasis on the priest giving the Word of God in Latin. The Catholic church we attended did this as well, and priests in both churches didn't like it when the congregants studied the Word on their own.

 

[abcaines]

I agree, but, I also see and agree with HUK that it often comes across as a kind of elitism to many. It reminds me of my days in the Greek Orthodox church with my ex-fiance....they would put the emphasis on the priest giving the Word of God in Latin. The Catholic church we attended did this as well, and priests in both churches didn't like it when the congregants studied the Word on their own.

Any such endeavor can be abused. We're all sinful proud humans.

If it sounds too highfalutin, I get deer in the headlights look an walk away. That's why I don't bother following half the posts on this forum.

 

[Ekklesian]

that the Bible is complete and preserved in the English language and can be trusted....Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......
The above is an exact quote from someone I dealt with a few years back. I know we have to have an understanding of the words in the Bible, what they mean, where they came from, and how they affect our lives. But, these people who say this kind of thing DO HAVE A POINT! It's hard to effectively reach people with such obvious contradictions in what we're telling them. I can fully understand their frustration and empathize/sympathize with them.
Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations? I mean, this is interesting to me, because few pastors have the answer and sputter, turn red-faced, and dodge the question or call people "heretics" because they are questioned. Shameful.

Will wonders never cease? I have the same gripe. When a fella tries that kind of thing with me, I ask:

"If you can tell me the 'real' meaning in English so easily, why couldn't the translators?"

Because they have an agenda, is the usual reply.​

"Have you considered that maybe they understood it better than you do?"

 

[AverageJoe]

Will wonders never cease? I have the same gripe. When a fella tries that kind of thing with me, I ask:

"If you can tell me the 'real' meaning in English so easily, why couldn't the translators?"

Because they have an agenda, is the usual reply.​

"Have you considered that maybe they understood it better than you do?"

I've heard a LOT of excuses, and even some hateful attacks lately. The other evening there was someone who wanted to attack stating that the Greek or Hebrew was irrelevant, but, that was what they had asked for! LOL I just love "Christians" when they get their diapers full!

 

[Ekklesian]

(You posted before I was done writing this post--and I was interrupted with a trip to the laundry room which is in another building--so this is an addendum to post 10, not a reply to the previous post. )

The Scriptures, though, are not the Truth.

Don't get me wrong: they are inerrant in meaning, and God was and is active in their transmission to this generation, and in their preservation.

And they are authoritative.

The Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ. The inspired Scriptures are the truth about the Truth. A sermon, or Sunday school lesson, or a biblical post here, is the truth (as one understands it) about the truth about the Truth.

The best tables of the Law are our hearts. We are living epistles, known and read of all men. It's doers of God's will that know His doctrine (John 7:17), and the Apostle had to bring the Hebrews back to obedience to the sincere Milk, before going on to stronger matters like what was typified by Melchizedek.

It's in our obedience, our walking in the Spirit, Christ in us--the Truth in and working through us--that is the best translation.

 

[AverageJoe]

I agree with most of what you said...will wonders never cease!?! This is one reason I don't get into arguing the KJV v. MV's. I PREFER the KJV because I grew up with it and am more comfortable with it than any other. But, I can and do use others. I don't worship a book...I worship the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Bible ISN'T the Lord Jesus Christ in written form as many IFB pastors would have us believe. It's shameful that so many worship something other than Christ.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

The Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ. The inspired Scriptures are the truth about the Truth.

I find this perspective intriguing, and I guess never thought about it quite like that. My question is this: can’t your perspective lead to wishy-washy ecumenism? Can’t it lead to everyone having their own “truth” about Truth?

 

[ALAYMAN]

that the Bible is complete and preserved in the English language and can be trusted....Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......
The above is an exact quote from someone I dealt with a few years back. I know we have to have an understanding of the words in the Bible, what they mean, where they came from, and how they affect our lives. But, these people who say this kind of thing DO HAVE A POINT! It's hard to effectively reach people with such obvious contradictions in what we're telling them. I can fully understand their frustration and empathize/sympathize with them.
Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations? I mean, this is interesting to me, because few pastors have the answer and sputter, turn red-faced, and dodge the question or call people "heretics" because they are questioned. Shameful.

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying that you don’t like it when a preacher expounds on a different or deeper meaning of a word? Or are you specifically put off by them saying that the original language actually means something different than the rendering of the English translation?

 

[FSSL]

We are seeing "thumbs up" on posts you would not expect another poster to like!
What's happening here?! Why is the FFF getting so soft! LOL!!!

 

[Rockson]

Yet, every time I turn around I have some "pastor" or "layman" saying "the Greek" or "the Hebrew" root of the word is this, and this is what it means so the English isn't quite accurate......

I think that can be OK to a point and degree. It's not just the idea of going to the Hebrew or Greek but we understand also even English words aren't used the same way as in times past.

EG: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; Eph 4:22

Conversation really meant lifestyle so the new person needs to know even English language has changed.

Is the English translation of God's Word or isn't it? Is it perfect, ENTIRE, wanting nothing so that it can make us that way? Or, do we constantly need to go back to the Greek and Hebrew to understand what should be clear by what we're preaching and teaching others, including those in our congregations?

We can also ask is the Bible in other languages the word of God? Is the French version, Spanish or Chinese translation the word of God? There is at times from language to language just some things that you do have to go to the original language it was recorded in. I actually do agree with you though.

Some Bible teachers should just knock it off and stop trying to make themselves look too scholarly. There are times however where it's good to go to the original but just don't overplay doing it with a real motive only to look sophisticated and super intelligent. One can also by so doing put a congregation to sleep. Who wants to hear the phonic sound of some Greek, Hebrew word.

 

[Rockson]

I've heard a LOT of excuses, and even some hateful attacks lately. The other evening there was someone who wanted to attack stating that the Greek or Hebrew was irrelevant, but, that was what they had asked for! LOL I just love "Christians" when they get their diapers full!

And we should have a longing to want to see dear precious brothers and sisters in Christ grow up into maturity. God loves each one and if we are ones more mature we should desire and long to be our brothers keeper. To bring people closer to the place of being conformed to Christ is our hearts longing and desire and he Father is glad when we embrace this way of thinking.

 

[AverageJoe]

I find this perspective intriguing, and I guess never thought about it quite like that. My question is this: can’t your perspective lead to wishy-washy ecumenism? Can’t it lead to everyone having their own “truth” about Truth?

No. The truth in most instances is clear....in other cases, its left up to personal interpretation.

 

[Ekklesian]

I find this perspective intriguing, and I guess never thought about it quite like that. My question is this: can’t your perspective lead to wishy-washy ecumenism? Can’t it lead to everyone having their own “truth” about Truth?

I forgot who I was reading that illuminated that perspective. It was a while ago.

But no, it's not saying the Scriptures aren't true or that their meanings are fluid, and it's not saying that one can bypass preachers or the Scriptures to know Christ. It's just saying simply listening to the preachers isn't the same as knowing the Scriptures, and merely knowing the Scriptures isn't the same as knowing Christ.

The discussion was about translations, and the tendency of some to retranslate the English to support their eisegeses. A knowledge of the original languages is not the best teacher of God's doctrines. Obedience is the best teacher. And there is no more power in the original languages than in the translations. The Devil is subject to the name of Jesus, whether it is uttered as Jeezuss, Haysoose, or Yeshua, and he hates the English translations as much as the Greek and Hebrew, because faith cometh by hearing them in any tongue.