Where do go if I leave the IFB movement?

"Your? Who said I was requiring my standard? I'm not..... I can tell what the Scriptures teach. They're are clear and to the point. What wiggle room do you get from the Scriptures to let people do whatever they want to do? Please provide the verse. I'd love to see it."

So you have every doctrine and every nuance of the New Testament figure out, eh? I'm not buying it. So how many should serve on church board? How large should a church grow before they send members out to start a new work?
 
tmjbog said:
So you have every doctrine and every nuance of the New Testament figure out, eh? I'm not buying it. So how many should serve on church board? How large should a church grow before they send members out to start a new work?
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So you don't believe I have but you readily believe anyone can find it anywhere they go?

What kind of sense does that make?

Have you read how the Pharisees "compass land and sea" to make disciples? Do you remember what Jesus said they were actually doing?

The early church grew by leaps and bounds. Countless people.... and they all... (Briefly) were not divided..... When they started separating.... The apostles fought then with every breath they had..

It is telling that you don't really know your Bible. You must be one of those who relies on someone esle to do all the work for them? How much have you paid them over the years? It doesn't look like you got much from what you've paid.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
You can ask God about it when you meet Him.
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Ask Him what exactly? I'll be glad to do it.

I already know you're ruling down where you're at. How much they paying you now? Still enjoying all those "pastor appreciation" days?

Who would ever imaged that slaves would get a day named after them..... that comes every few months. Can't even wait a year to have them.....

When do you have member appreciation?
 
treasure_unseen said:
So you don't believe I have but you readily believe anyone can find it anywhere they go?

What kind of sense does that make?

Have you read how the Pharisees "compass land and sea" to make disciples? Do you remember what Jesus said they were actually doing?

The early church grew by leaps and bounds. Countless people.... and they all... (Briefly) were not divided..... When they started separating.... The apostles fought then with every breath they had..

It is telling that you don't really know your Bible. You must be one of those who relies on someone esle to do all the work for them? How much have you paid them over the years? It doesn't look like you got much from what you've paid.
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I have no idea where you are taking your crazy ideas from. Of course their are churches that are clearly not Biblical. There are others that have some things wrong (in my estimation) but have the essentials correct. I certainly don't pretend that I have a perfect understanding of the New Testament and that every NT church would be perfect if they only followed my advice.
 
tmjbog said:
I have no idea where you are taking your crazy ideas from. Of course their are churches that are clearly not Biblical. There are others that have some things wrong (in my estimation) but have the essentials correct.
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So you've set your own standard of essentials. Can you point to that list in the Scriptures. I don't want them from some man's commentary. I don't want them from some person's wish list.

I certainly don't pretend that I have a perfect understanding of the New Testament and that every NT church would be perfect if they only followed my advice.
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I'm challenging you. I'm challenging you to recognize the Truth no matter how ugly it is.
 
treasure_unseen said:
So you've set your own standard of essentials. Can you point to that list in the Scriptures. I don't want them from some man's commentary. I don't want them from some person's wish list.
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No, read your Bible and pray. You'll figure it out. Is the church gathering to worship God, do they have a proper understanding of salvation, do they gather for prayer, do they meet the needs of those without means in the congregation? There is mini starter list. Certainly asking for a pastor with a "perfect" understanding of the NT is not on the list. I understand why you are disappointed in every church if you are holding out for one that has a pastor with a "perfect" understanding of the NT.
 
tmjbog said:
I have to ask what did you do to Treasure? I think you broke him.
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He's not done anything directly to me. We've bantered for years. He's better than most but not close to being there yet. He knows better about many things, he's just like most former IFBs. He is still stuck with years of baggage he can't acknowledge he was wrong about.
 
treasure_unseen said:
He's not done anything directly to me. We've bantered for years. He's better than most but not close to being there yet. He knows better about many things, he's just like most former IFBs. He is still stuck with years of baggage he can't acknowledge he was wrong about.
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What? He was at one time wrong about some things? That's horrible. He is coming along, though, right? Can we expect him to perfectly understand the NT like you and I soon?
 
tmjbog said:
No, read your Bible and pray. You'll figure it out. Is the church gathering to worship God, do they have a proper understanding of salvation, do they gather for prayer, do they meet the needs of those without means in the congregation? There is mini starter list.
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Well. Based upon that list.....there might be 100 of them in my area within reasonable driving distance. They refuse to work with one another. If it was all about your list, then.... why in the world would they be divided?

Certainly asking for a pastor with a "perfect" understanding of the NT is not on the list.
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Don't get caught up in the word "perfect". I don't demand perfection. In fact, I argue over and over again that such is impossible. You just haven't been paying attention.

I do require a working knowledge and a willingness to admit that God isn't in everything they do. A willingness to change whether or not they taught it for decades or not. A willingness to forget about themselves.

I understand why you are disappointed in every church if you are holding out for one that has a pastor with a "perfect" understanding of the NT.
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I look for the gifted. I'll give you an example.

I believe FSSL is gifted. Yet, we haven't always got along. I believe the same thing about Ransom. I believe he is gifted....even though he is stubborn. Maybe more so....... than even myself.

I don't demand perfection. Far from it. I demand a "gift" and I look for change. I look for a willingness to admit our own inabilities. That is the most difficult part. For myself and for everyone.
 
tmjbog said:
What? He was at one time wrong about some things? That's horrible. He is coming along, though, right? Can we expect him to perfectly understand the NT like you and I soon?
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He's still holding on to some very rudimentary issues hurting him. I love him. I don't expect a "miracle"... I just keep"ribbing" him in hopes it'll sink in one day.
 
treasure_unseen said:
Well. Based upon that list.....there might be 100 of them in my area within reasonable driving distance. They refuse to work with one another. If it was all about your list, then.... why in the world would they be divided?
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Ok. In what way are they divided? Because they don't meet in the same building? Because they use different sunday school curriculum?
 
treasure_unseen said:
Don't get caught up in the word "perfect". I don't demand perfection. In fact, I argue over and over again that such is impossible. You just haven't been paying attention.

I do require a working knowledge and a willingness to admit that God isn't in everything they do. A willingness to change whether or not they taught it for decades or not. A willingness to forget about themselves.
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Ok. Than if you do not require perfection you acknowledge there are certain issues within a church that are more essential than others. There are certain things that you can agree to disagree about even if you think you are correct.
 
It depends why you leave the IFB.

Reason #1: Trauma and Abuse - valid reason
Reason #2: I don't like the drama - good luck in other denominations which can be worse.
 
tmjbog said:
Ok. In what way are they divided? Because they don't meet in the same building? Because they use different sunday school curriculum?
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They divided by their desire and carnality. The list is infinite. I've even heard of church splits based on toilet paper choices. Ultimately, it is really about men. People prefer to praise men more than God.

1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
 
tmjbog said:
Ok. Than if you do not require perfection you acknowledge there are certain issues within a church that are more essential than others. There are certain things that you can agree to disagree about even if you think you are correct.
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Absolutely. I could care less about most of the things that divide churches. I DO care about doctrines that form false narrative and breed lies. Doctrines such as the "tithe" that feeds an endless money flow that turns servants into money launderers. Bereaved slaves into the false "Master" of the "house"....... Doctrine such as promoting a bad translation to be perfect when it feeds the false doctrine that some local "pastor" is the ruler of ANY man in Christ Jesus. Doctrinal traditions that create "pastor appreciation" days when unnamed slaves are those that truly feed the flock of God. Doctrinal tradition that teach that men should wait till God overpowers them when God has done everything in giving His Son for all men. COMMANDING that men everywhere seek God and find repentance. God came searching.... now its OUR TURN to seek Him.

I'll stop there. I think you "get the picture".
 
treasure_unseen said:
They divided by their desire and carnality. The list is infinite. I've even heard of church splits based on toilet paper choices. Ultimately, it is really about men. People prefer to praise men more than God.

1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
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I don't disagree with that. Sinful men can and will be petty. But it could be the case of an individual believing beyond reason they are correct about everything and demanding things be done their way.
 
tmjbog said:
But it could be the case of an individual believing beyond reason they are correct about everything and demanding things be done their way.
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Could be. I know how we can tell. We should let the Scripture decide. Up till this point, I haven't seen any from you.
 
treasure_unseen said:
Absolutely. I could care less about most of the things that divide churches. I DO care about doctrines that form false narrative and breed lies. Doctrines such as the "tithe" that feeds an endless money flow that turns servants into money launderers. Bereaved slaves into the false "Master" of the "house"....... Doctrine such as promoting a bad translation to be perfect when it feeds the false doctrine that some local "pastor" is the ruler of ANY man in Christ Jesus. Doctrinal traditions that create "pastor appreciation" days when unnamed slaves are those that truly feed the flock of God. Doctrinal tradition that teach that men should wait till God overpowers them when God has done everything in giving His Son for all men. COMMANDING that men everywhere seek God and find repentance. God came searching.... now its OUR TURN to seek Him.

I'll stop there. I think you "get the picture".
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And I would be agreement on most of those things. But there are churches that do get it right on most if not all of those. Again it's weird to be the guy sticking up for IFB. When the new pastor came to our church several years ago he stopped the congregation from clapping and hootin and hollering when the pastors came on stage. One small step in the right direction anyway.
 
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