Jehovah's Witness encounter

[ALAYMAN]

Recently a Facebook friend of mine who regularly posts inspiring thoughts about Christ and Christianity on Facebook was approached online with the idea of considering that Jesus never claimed to be God. The friend knows better than that but is somewhat at a disadvantage from an apologetics standpoint. I immediately saw through the JW and warned my friend to be careful of Jehovah's Witness apologists who use sophistry and try to poach Christians from their congregations. In my not so subtle warning to my friend I made it clear to the JW that I knew what he was doing, and made reference to them having their own corrupt translation, tracts, etc. As a result, the JW engaged me and asked me to answer his charge by his claim that Jesus didn't assert deity. He made this claim citing John chapter 20 verse 17 where Jesus used the words "my God", which he misinterpreted to me that Jesus was saying that he (Jesus) is not God. So...

How would you address this if you were in this situation?

 

[illinoisguy]

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18

 

[ALAYMAN]

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18

Excellent verse! I took a slightly different approach and responded with the kenosis theory (Phil 2:7), and the context of John 20:17 being the humanity of Christ. He did not re-engage after I supplied that answer, but rather refocused to only give attention to the slightly weaker sheep, so I communicated privately with my friend and made sure that he was not falling
for the sophistry of the JW.

 

[Ransom]

One, I would point out verses such as:

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:58-59)

"I am," or ego eimi, is the proper name of God, the Greek translation of the Tetragrammaton YHWH (or, for your JW friend, "Jehovah"). Why would they pick up stones to stone him? For blasphemy. Contrast what the New World Translation says: "Jesus said to them: 'Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.'" Why would the Jews wish to stone him, then? Claming to have pre-existed Abraham might be very odd, but it wasn't a crime worthy of death. On the other hand, claiming divinity for oneself was worthy of a stoning, as we see in this passage:

[Jesus said:] "I and the Father are one."

The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?" The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God." (John 10:30-33)

The JW explanation for "I and the Father are one" is that Jesus and the Father are at one in purpose, in desiring to bring people to everlasting life. This of course contradicts verse 33--not only in an orthodox translation, but also the NWT: "you, although being a man, make yourself a god." How is being at one in purpose with God a claim to divinity? Is it blasphemous to merely desire the same things God desires? Obviously the Jews believed Jesus was guilty of something far more serious.

Note also that Jesus doesn't correct them when they accuse him of making himself God. Instead, he doubles down with an a fortiori argument.

Two, "Jesus never claimed to be God" is a red herring, anyway. Even if he didn't, Christians and JWs both believe the Scriptures are infallible and God-breathed. There are a number of verses speaking of Jehovah in the Old Testament that are alluded to in the New, only they speak of Jesus. For example:

Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." (Isaiah 44:6)

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: 'The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.'" (Revelation 2:8)

Who is it that died and came to life? Did Jehovah the Father die? No, that is Christ, declaring himself to be "the first and the last," a title of divinity claimed exclusively by Jehovah.

Jesus is God in the flesh. That is inescapable. Even with the JWs' cack-handed attempt to write his divinity out of the Scriptures, you could use their own Bible against their doctrine.

 

[ALAYMAN]

One, I would point out verses such as:



"I am," or ego eimi, is the proper name of God, the Greek translation of the Tetragrammaton YHWH (or, for your JW friend, "Jehovah"). Why would they pick up stones to stone him? For blasphemy. Contrast what the New World Translation says: "Jesus said to them: 'Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.'" Why would the Jews wish to stone him, then? Claming to have pre-existed Abraham might be very odd, but it wasn't a crime worthy of death. On the other hand, claiming divinity for oneself was worthy of a stoning, as we see in this passage:



The JW explanation for "I and the Father are one" is that Jesus and the Father are at one in purpose, in desiring to bring people to everlasting life. This of course contradicts verse 33--not only in an orthodox translation, but also the NWT: "you, although being a man, make yourself a god." How is being at one in purpose with God a claim to divinity? Is it blasphemous to merely desire the same things God desires? Obviously the Jews believed Jesus was guilty of something far more serious.

Note also that Jesus doesn't correct them when they accuse him of making himself God. Instead, he doubles down with an a fortiori argument.

Two, "Jesus never claimed to be God" is a red herring, anyway. Even if he didn't, Christians and JWs both believe the Scriptures are infallible and God-breathed. There are a number of verses speaking of Jehovah in the Old Testament that are alluded to in the New, only they speak of Jesus. For example:



Who is it that died and came to life? Did Jehovah the Father die? No, that is Christ, declaring himself to be "the first and the last," a title of divinity claimed exclusively by Jehovah.

Jesus is God in the flesh. That is inescapable. Even with the JWs' cack-handed attempt to write his divinity out of the Scriptures, you could use their own Bible against their doctrine.

That's good stuff, thanks!

I guess the other thing that was on my mind was that somebody who is so entrenched as an apologist in the JW cult is very possibly willfully blind to any legitimate reasoning and dialogue through the Scriptures.