Was Christ a Geocentrist?

Ransom said:
He's not explaining it to the Father in terms consistent with the Father's experience. He's explaining it to men in terms consistent with men's experience.
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Yes, you've already said you believe Christ used relative terms. He's not explaining anything. He's pointing to a work of their Heavenly Father that they can see, and telling them to do the same thing.

And, now, you're saying you can see that part of the work of Christ was to leave men with their misconceptions about what they see the Father doing.
 
Ekklesian said:
Yes, you've already said you believe Christ used relative terms. He's not explaining anything. He's pointing to a work of their Heavenly Father that they can see, and telling them to do the same thing.
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He's telling people to make the sun rise on the evil and the good?
 
Ekklesian said:
He told us why He spoke in parables: to hide his teaching from the non-elect so they would remain unconverted. Haven't you read?
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That explanation works only if you're a Jew or a Calvinist, which I'm not. Hermeneutics isn't your strong suit, is it?
 
Ransom said:
Stop talking in riddles, and tell us what your point is.
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My point is to have a discussion about something biblical that hasn't been done to death. I thought the clear geocentric viewpoint in the Scriptures would be good, because it challenges some cherished modern beliefs, one of which is the thinking that the earth is in motion--something that has never been scientifically proven, only assumed.

www.icr.org

Geocentricity and Creation

1. What is geocentricity? Geocentricity is a conceptual model of the form of the universe which makes three basic assertions about the nature of the earth and its relationship to the rest of the universe. These are...
www.icr.org www.icr.org

3. What does modern science say about geocentricity?​
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Many attempts were made to prove that heliocentricity was true and geocentricity was false, right up until the early 1900's. All such attempts were unsuccessful. The most well-known of these is the Michelson-Morley experiment which was designed to measure the change in the speed of light, due to the assumed motion of the earth through space, when measured in different directions on the earth's surface. The failure of this experiment to detect any significant change played an important role in the acceptance of Einstein's theory of special relativity.​
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The theory of special relativity holds as a basic assumption that the speed of light will always be the same everywhere in the universe irrespective of the relative motion of the source of the light and the observer. The ability of special relativity to successfully explain many non-intuitive physical phenomena which are manifested by atomic particles when moving at speeds greater than about one-tenth the speed of light seems to corroborate this assumption. Thus, the failure of the Michelson-Morley experiment (and all other experiments of similar intent) to detect any motion of the earth through space is understood by modern science in terms of relativity rather than geocentricity.​
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Einstein's theory of general relativity adds further to the debate. It asserts that it is impossible for a human observer to determine whether any material body is in a state of absolute rest (i.e., immobile in space). It claims that only motion of two material bodies relative to one another can be physically detected. According to this theory the geocentric and heliocentric viewpoints are equally valid representations of reality, and it makes no sense whatsoever scientifically to speak of one as being true and the other false. This shift in emphasis from an either-or argument to a synthesis and acceptance of both viewpoints is summed up by the well-known astronomer, Fred Hoyle, as follows:​
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The relation of the two pictures [geocentricity and heliocentricity] is reduced to a mere coordinate transformation and it is the main tenet of the Einstein theory that any two ways of looking at the world which are related to each other by a coordinate transformation are entirely equivalent from a physical point of view.... Today we cannot say that the Copernican theory is 'right' and the Ptolemaic theory 'wrong' in any meaningful physical sense.[1]​
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Relativity is the theory which is accepted as the correct one by the great majority of scientists at present. However, many science teachers and textbooks are not aware of this, and it is not uncommon to find heliocentricity taught as the progressive and "obviously true" theory even today.​
 
Ransom said:
And yet . . .



Make up your mind.
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LOL. It's not metaphorical. He's not substituting anything. I see God blessing the evil and the good. I should do the same, because children do the works of their Father. I see God arraying the lillies of the field and feeding the birds, I can expect His provision too, even more so because I am His child.

That's not the employment of metaphor or similie.
 
Ekklesian said:
LOL. It's not metaphorical. He's not substituting anything.
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Jesus said the Father makes the sun rise on the good and the evil. You said that means he blessed them. That is the very definition of a metaphor. Maybe you should have paid more attention in English class in high school.

Anyway, it's pretty clear you're an ignoramus, so I'm not wasting any more time on your foolishness.
 
in matthew 19;18 Jesus told the pharisees moses had allowed men to divorce... (or put away)... their wives due the hardness of their hearts.... is it really that hard to see that Jesus spoke to people in relative terms they could understand, due to the hardness of their heads?.... ... yeah.... we all know what modern science has discovered.... and no doubt they will discover more in the future...... .. but could the mindset of ancient man be able to understand all that complicated scientific and geo-physical information?

Jesus spoke to people in terms they could relate to in order to help them understand .... not to confuse them..... parables were given to his followers...(those who already had an understanding)... to make them better servants of God... ... ...... of course non servants of God couldn;t understand the parables... just as they can;t understand either the parable or their purposes now...... but that;s not who they were intended for....... and it;s not who should be trying to instruct others about them now..... .
 
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Ransom said:
Jesus said the Father makes the sun rise on the good and the evil. You said that means he blessed them. That is the very definition of a metaphor.
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No it's not. The very definition of metaphor is changing the form of something. There's no symbolism here. The sun and rain are very real blessings of God on the evil and the good. And it's an example of how we should behave as God's children
Ransom said:
Maybe you should have paid more attention in English class in high school.
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I did. Looks like someone else was daydreaming. :LOL:

 
aleshanee said:
Jesus spoke to people in terms they could relate to in order to help them understand .... not to confuse them..... parables were given to his followers...(those who already had an understanding)... to make them better servants of God... ... ...... of course non servants of God couldn;t understand the parables... just as they can;t understand either the parable or their purposes now...... but that;s not who they were intended for....... and it;s not who should be trying to instruct others about them now..... .
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*sigh*

Christ's disciples are permitted to know the mysteries of the Kingdom. The people in general are not.

That's the reason for the parables.

His disciples came and asked him, "Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?" He replied, "You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. That is why I use these parables. NLT​
 
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