ALAYMAN’s downward spiral to apostasy continues…

[ALAYMAN]

I am going with ALAYBOY to the campus church (H2O) this morning. Pretty sure they are going to be using contemporary music, wearing shorts, and I’m not positive but I don’t think they’re going to use the KJB!

Pray for me.

 

[abcaines]

Thanks for the link. I've been combining through the site with my heresy feelers out and on maximum sensitivity. Found some references to Tim Keller and the book Crazy Love (Francis Chan).

Women deacons (worship director and women's ministry) ...

At least one of the deacons (a guy) says the lead pastor led him to the Lord... Evangelism and discipleship seem to happen.

Both pastors are from Baptist seminaries...

I looked at the simplified list of their beliefs; I didn't bother to download a PDF of their full doctrine statement but as a good father, I'm sure you're on top of that...

Overall, a very modern Evangelical church. Given the secular university setting, I'd give this ministry a thumbs up. I do like how Deacon leadership comes from the trenches and credits present leadership for helping them come to faith.

 

[voicecrying]

We expect a full report this evening.

 

[ALAYMAN]

We expect a full report this evening.

Well, the reprobates used the ESV, sung Hillsong and seven-eleven songs copiously, wore the prerequisite hoodie and shorts uniform, and uttered frequent cool kids words, but I managed to not rush the lectern and replace their Alexandrian text with the purified 7 times word, and only shouted “heretic” twice.

Ok, now for real. They sung a couple songs I appreciated, and the message on dealing with anxiety was actually pretty good. They had a young layman speak on his personal testimony of escaping suicide that was due to anxiety. His testimony was compelling and set the focus for the sermon well. They had a ministry team member assigned to ALAYBOY with a brief meet-and-greet to establish a “connection” for possible discipleship. They have in-house Bible studies mid-week in his dorm, which is uber convenient. My preferences against the drum-heavy repetitive CCM aside, I hope ALAYBOY overcomes his introverted nature and plugs into this campus church, though he gave feedback afterwards that he might prefer a traditional worship style more in line with all he has ever known growing up. There is a reformed SBC church within reasonable walking distance but the neighborhoods around campus can get kinda sketchy pretty quick, so not sure I am real comfortable with that.

 

[abcaines]

They had a ministry team member assigned to ALAYBOY with a brief meet-and-greet to establish a “connection” for possible discipleship.

Given the testimony of their deacons, this doesn't surprise me. Personally, I'd value that more than worship style or other trappings. How closely would the other church connect to ALAYBOY? When I arrived in Pensacola, I called the church that none other than Adrian Rogers recommended to me. The most they did was tell me there was some people on NAS I could look up if I needed a ride. It took several weeks but I finally made my way to the Servicemen's Center and met Mr. Varney who took me under his wing and forged a relationship with me that I praise God for to this day.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Given the testimony of their deacons, this doesn't surprise me. Personally, I'd value that more than worship style or other trappings. How closely would the other church connect to ALAYBOY? When I arrived in Pensacola, I called the church that none other than Adrian Rogers recommended to me. The most they did was tell me there was some people on NAS I could look up if I needed a ride. It took several weeks but I finally made my way to the Servicemen's Center and met Mr. Varney who took me under his wing and forged a relationship with me that I praise God for to this day.

Just as your first response to this thread was so on-target, your second response is even more so. I don't know what the worship atmosphere and specific philosophy is like at the Reformed SBC church, but after running through all of the relevant priorities to evaluate a church's ability to disciple ALAYBOY effectively, I am reasonably convinced that if ALAYBOY gives this H20 group a chance for connection that their "elders" (haha, they're all less than 40 ) will do a Biblically conscientious job of reaching him. Without seeing the other church minister in real space and time yet (which I think he wants to do) I feel like their traditional structure may not be as "seeker sensitive"(to use a negative pejorative in a positive light, lol) to the college demographic from which ALAYBOY is coming. I could be wrong about that since they too are very near the college campus, so we shall see. The young deacon fella that I had been in digital contact with prior to yesterday seems not only conscientious but also wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. In order to "make a connection" with ALAYBOY he asked me prior to our visit to provide some back-story to ALAYBOY so he could forge a quicker and stronger immediate impact. It turns out that the young man had several legitimate commonalities (baseballer, rural rather than urban upbringing, etc) and he played upon those factors in their brief exchange yesterday. Time will tell if anything blossoms from this initial excursion, but A LAY MAN can pray it produces fruit to God's glory and A LAY BOY's growth.

 

[abcaines]

Indeed. College is where so many young people who were raised in the fear and admonition of the Lord fall away. While ALAYBOY is at CU, somebody WILL disciple him. I pray it is the young man you have been in contact with.

Edit:

I get a very strong sense that the folks at H2O are keenly aware of what goes on at the big city universities which is why they are being so proactive about discipleship. This is prompting me to pray for them as well as for you and your boy.

 

[abcaines]

I am reasonably convinced that if ALAYBOY gives this H20 group a chance for connection that their "elders" (haha, they're all less than 40 )

We're reaching that age where folks who are young enough to be our children are in charge now.

I'm sure I've mentioned my doctor who serves on the school board and is 20 years younger than me... I was wrong. He's 22 years younger than me!

 

[ALAYMAN]

We're reaching that age where folks who are young enough to be our children are in charge now.

I'm sure I've mentioned my doctor who serves on the school board and is 20 years younger than me... I was wrong. He's 22 years younger than me!

ALAYWIFE has been teaching second generation children in 5th grade for awhile now, and I'm afraid it won't be long she will be able to say she's teaching 3rd gen children!

 

[abcaines]

As for "women deacons", I don't have much issue with that mainly because I differentiate between deacons and elders. I don't know what H2O does with that...

As I've stated before, I am an "elder" in my church but outside of the occasional call to teach at our midweek service, I'd classify my role as more akin to the office of a deacon.

 

[ALAYMAN]

As for "women deacons", I don't have much issue with that mainly because I differentiate between deacons and elders. I don't know what H2O does with that...

Yeah, given the other large differences of ministry philosophy that I am ignoring, I won't split hairs over the deacon thing, though that is a bridge too far for me to personally capitulate to, I am okay with ALAYBOY "chewing up the meat and spitting out the bones" on that one. As far as his preferences, he ain't convictional about enough to know or care about any of that stuff, lol. His major feedback right after the service was on the basis of some sort of technical quibble in the way the "change of direction" in their musical arrangements often took. I don't know enough about music to describe what his quibble was about using the technical terms, but it amounted to their lack of flow. I told him that music should be used to assist and prepare for worship (something he already has been made abundantly aware of) and so long as it reverently and responsibly is arranged to do that without manipulative effect then he shouldn't get hung up on the subjectivity of the arrangement and flow of notes, lol. And NONE of that should be a first basis of prioritization IMNSHO, but rather how theologically accurate and applied the handling of the word plays out via the sermon.

 

[Bob Jones V]

Just as your first response to this thread was so on-target, your second response is even more so. I don't know what the worship atmosphere and specific philosophy is like at the Reformed SBC church, but after running through all of the relevant priorities to evaluate a church's ability to disciple ALAYBOY effectively, I am reasonably convinced that if ALAYBOY gives this H20 group a chance for connection that their "elders" (haha, they're all less than 40 ) will do a Biblically conscientious job of reaching him. Without seeing the other church minister in real space and time yet (which I think he wants to do) I feel like their traditional structure may not be as "seeker sensitive"(to use a negative pejorative in a positive light, lol) to the college demographic from which ALAYBOY is coming. I could be wrong about that since they too are very near the college campus, so we shall see. The young deacon fella that I had been in digital contact with prior to yesterday seems not only conscientious but also wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. In order to "make a connection" with ALAYBOY he asked me prior to our visit to provide some back-story to ALAYBOY so he could forge a quicker and stronger immediate impact. It turns out that the young man had several legitimate commonalities (baseballer, rural rather than urban upbringing, etc) and he played upon those factors in their brief exchange yesterday. Time will tell if anything blossoms from this initial excursion, but A LAY MAN can pray it produces fruit to God's glory and A LAY BOY's growth.

Overall it sounds like a good church. Good that is was not a wild pentecostal hoogabang.

 

[sword]

If it were my child I would pay for an uber each week for them to attend a good church of like faith in the area.

More teens change direction while off at college than at any other time in their life.

They need the weekly encouragement and guidence from a church that shares thier doctrine and beliefs.

As for the college midweek bible study it would be a great oppertunity to meet other students who are Christians.

Just my 3 cents worth (worth one cent more due to inflation).

 

[abcaines]

If it were my child I would pay for an uber each week for them to attend a good church of like faith in the area.

More teens change direction while off at college than at any other time in their life.

They need the weekly encouragement and guidence from a church that shares thier doctrine and beliefs.

As for the college midweek bible study it would be a great oppertunity to meet other students who are Christians.

Just my 3 cents worth (worth one cent more due to inflation).

When I was on deployment with the Navy, how I would have LOVED to fellowship with believers of like mind. Instead, I had to settle for fellowship with whoever was around. This included some AofG guys, a fella in my shop who was... IDK... certainly not IFB... he had a real liking for Second Chapter of Acts (remember them?)

All that to say, sometimes when you're in the devil's neighborhood, you need to be connected with others who bear the cross even if they don't cross their i's or dot their t's the same way you do. The only place you are going to consistently encounter believers of like mind is when you're in your own hometown. When you're away from home, good fellowship is too rare a commodity to worry about incidentals. As long as the basics are covered, I'm good with it. ie... While I would not join an AofG church, I'd certainly fellowship with them when out and about. They're a godly bunch; a little weird for my tastes, but it's good to know if we need each other, we can rely on each other.

 

[ALAYMAN]

If it were my child I would pay for an uber each week for them to attend a good church of like faith in the area.

More teens change direction while off at college than at any other time in their life.

They need the weekly encouragement and guidence from a church that shares thier doctrine and beliefs.

As for the college midweek bible study it would be a great oppertunity to meet other students who are Christians.

Just my 3 cents worth (worth one cent more due to inflation).

Thanks for the practical suggestion, I appreciate it.

The quibbles I have over the campus church (quibbles in the sense of taking what they have to offer for ALAYBOY, not in the sense of what I would not be able to stomach personally) are not the easily resolvable in comparison to some of the issues I *MIGHT* have with a Reformed church that is an ACTS 29 associated affiliate.

 

[sword]

As I've traveled the country on business, I have never visited a major city that I ws unable to find a like minded church to attend. Sometimes I'm forced to drive a bit, but I have a always been successful in finding one none-the-less.

 

[ALAYMAN]

As I've traveled the country on business, I have never visited a major city that I ws unable to find a like minded church to attend. Sometimes I'm forced to drive a bit, but I have a always been successful in finding one none-the-less.

I can track with that. I make it a habit of doing the same when I go on vacation, and with a few exceptions when I didn't do my homework upfront I would say that your claim holds water. The difficulty with that solution is that in order to find something workable for ALAYBOY that is remotely geographically close to "of like faith" would include logistical hurdles that might ultimately be too tall for him to desire to overcome. I will say that in my preliminary scouting that I found an IFB church about 25 minutes away and tried to contact them, but didn't get a return phone call. But again, thanks for the common sense admonition.

 

[voicecrying]

There is a reformed SBC church within reasonable walking distance but the neighborhoods around campus can get kinda sketchy pretty quick, so not sure I am real comfortable with that.

Yeah, some of the areas near the campus are pretty rough - definitely would carry a huge bible while walking to hopefully ward off confrontations.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yeah, some of the areas near the campus are pretty rough - definitely would carry a huge bible while walking to hopefully ward off confrontations.

We had this with us but it wasn’t big enough to ward off the 2 panhandlers that called ALAYWIFE “grandma”, lol…

 

[Baptist Renegade]

When I was on deployment with the Navy, how I would have LOVED to fellowship with believers of like mind. Instead, I had to settle for fellowship with whoever was around. This included some AofG guys, a fella in my shop who was... IDK... certainly not IFB... he had a real liking for Second Chapter of Acts (remember them?)

All that to say, sometimes when you're in the devil's neighborhood, you need to be connected with others who bear the cross even if they don't cross their i's or dot their t's the same way you do. The only place you are going to consistently encounter believers of like mind is when you're in your own hometown. When you're away from home, good fellowship is too rare a commodity to worry about incidentals. As long as the basics are covered, I'm good with it. ie... While I would not join an AofG church, I'd certainly fellowship with them when out and about. They're a godly bunch; a little weird for my tastes, but it's good to know if we need each other, we can rely on each other.

When you were deployed in the Navy, you basically took what you could get and was thankful for it!

I was on a smaller ship (FF) that had about 3-4 fellow believers who were weak-minded Charismatics who used modern (per)versions of the Bible. We also had an SBC Chaplain who made his rounds throughout the battle group. He was a believer but also gave me the impression that he believed God would save people who have never heard the Gospel so this was an actual (legitimate) concern. God certainly used that time out there to remind me that there were other believers outside of the small IFBx world I had found myself in. I was a (closeted) fan of 2nd Chapter myself and was actually happy I didn't have to hide them from some of my IFBx buddies!

I had a buddy on another ship who was a member of my Church and a frequent soul-winning and street preaching partner so we were able to come together when we were in port and we went all over Rome and even visited the Vatican and passed out gospel tracts in St. Peter's Basilica! He wanted to "preach" but I told him if he did, I didn't know him!