Yikes…I wouldn’t care if they claimed to be Southern Baptists. I’m not following anybody anywhere like that!
IFB vs Church of Christ
- Thread starter DrHuk&Duck
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 12,885
- Reaction score
- 3,340
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I had numerous encounters with the ICOC back in the 90s when I lived in Toronto. They would approach me on the subway and invite me to church.. On one of these occasions it was a Sunday morning and I was already on my way to church. They got quite belligerent when I said so.
The shepherding aspect of their practice is a major concern. Unlike the regular CoC, they are an abusive cult.
The Church of Christ emerged from the restorationist movement during the Second Great Awakening. One of their tenents is the rejection of all historic creeds and confessions and using the scriptures from a strictly factual standpoint.
Many IFB (and SBC) Baptists, whether they care to admit it or not, have adopted much of this "restorationist" ideologies in their anti-intellectual, anti-creedal mindset where they declare "No creed but Christ" and "The King James Bible is my Statement of Faith," etc.
It is therefore no surprise to me that one would get similar "vibes" from the Church of Christ "Water Dogs" as they would from IFB Baptists.
Many IFB (and SBC) Baptists, whether they care to admit it or not, have adopted much of this "restorationist" ideologies in their anti-intellectual, anti-creedal mindset where they declare "No creed but Christ" and "The King James Bible is my Statement of Faith," etc.
It is therefore no surprise to me that one would get similar "vibes" from the Church of Christ "Water Dogs" as they would from IFB Baptists.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2019
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 609
- Points
- 113
Yes, the Campbellite/Church of Christ movement is "Restorationist" which means that they claim that the true gospel was lost through the centuries and "restored" by their movement. In 1830 the Campbellite paper "Millennial Harbinger" made this absurd claim:
"In 1827 the true gospel was restored. For distinction's sake it was styled the Ancient Gospel. . . . Who would have thought it remained for any, as late as 1827, to restore to the world the manner, the primitive manner of administering to mankind the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?"
The Jehovah's Witnesses, Morons and Worldwide Church of God (Herbert Armstrong) have all made the same claims and can be considered, in a sense, Restorationist. However, the New Testament teaches that there would always be true churches on earth until Christ's Second Coming, and that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Therefore, any new religious movement that arises saying "The true church was lost until we came along" should be rejected as a false church.
"In 1827 the true gospel was restored. For distinction's sake it was styled the Ancient Gospel. . . . Who would have thought it remained for any, as late as 1827, to restore to the world the manner, the primitive manner of administering to mankind the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?"
The Jehovah's Witnesses, Morons and Worldwide Church of God (Herbert Armstrong) have all made the same claims and can be considered, in a sense, Restorationist. However, the New Testament teaches that there would always be true churches on earth until Christ's Second Coming, and that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Therefore, any new religious movement that arises saying "The true church was lost until we came along" should be rejected as a false church.
It should be noted that the reformers (Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc.) acknowledged this. "Trail of Blood" Baptists (Baptist perpetuity proponents) would acknowledge this as well. Just so we are clear, the IFB ties to restorationism is among those who reject the historic creeds, confessions, and espouse an alternate history of the church than what is commonly understood and taught.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2012
- Messages
- 10,335
- Reaction score
- 2,077
- Points
- 113
The Baptismal regeneration is NOT a small matter.
I guess If you give them the benefit of the doubt they’re not a cult, but to me it’s close.
I guess If you give them the benefit of the doubt they’re not a cult, but to me it’s close.
I’m a lifelong Baptist (other than Catholic school attendance). I’m uncomfortable with a couple of their doctrinal positions, but I’m not so uncomfortable with the CoC that I’m willing to veto their college that my daughter is considering. I also have similar concerns about PCC, which is another college consideration, but not a strong candidate due to their accreditation concern. Personally, I’d rather her go off and live at a CoC college than a state university. The CoC college may have some doctrinal concerns, but at least she’s not going to be indoctrinated by a bunch of atheists and surrounded by a woke mob.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2012
- Messages
- 10,335
- Reaction score
- 2,077
- Points
- 113
Since your daughter is well grounded in the faith and is aware of what they teach/believe I’d have no problem with that either. Probably better than a secular Universal in many ways.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 12,885
- Reaction score
- 3,340
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
"Restorationism" was a movement with several non-related branches that came out of the Second Great Awakening. In addition to the Campbellites, the JWs, and the Mormons, that was also when the Adventist movement got its start, and Armstronism came from the Adventists. So they're related indirectly to the Restorationists, though as a sect they came about 100 years later.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 12,885
- Reaction score
- 3,340
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I liken it to Walter Martin's assertion in The Kingdom of the Cults that Seventh-day Adventism was not a cult--heterodox, certainly, but not in the same category as, say, the JWs or Mormons. I feel the same about the Churches of Christ: heterodox in their theology, but not an abusive, controlling system.
She’s been in Baptist church her entire life. She’s been saved and baptized. She does daily devotionals. I think she’d be fine at a CoC. I grew up similarly but attended a state university and it definitely radicalized my perspective for a good number of years, which I’m hoping to avoid with her journey.
But couldn’t some corners of the IFB world also fit into this same criteria? I’ve been around IFB churches my entire life, some seem like they consist of mainly normal, conservative Christians, but others have a very different feel to them. There was one in North Carolina that my grandparents briefly attended that wouldn’t allow women with pants on to step foot inside the church (even visitors). The Gothard IFBs also had a very different feeling to me as well. Thankfully we never attended a Gothard church, but we occasionally had people with links pass through our congregation in South Carolina.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 12,885
- Reaction score
- 3,340
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Absolutely, there are some IFB churches that might be orthodox in their theology, but in terms of their practice are leaning in a cultic direction. "If you don't attend our Bible college, you're out of God's will" and rot like that.
Pepperdine is a prestigious university which is affiliated with the Churches of Christ. The campus in Malibu, CA is absolutely beautiful overlooking the Pacific. It is also VERY EXPENSIVE from what I can recall. I considered getting an MBA from there when I was living out in California.
There are many "Christian" universities that are "Christian" in name only (Abilene Christian University, Texas Christian University, Southern Methodist University, Houston Baptist University, Etc.) meaning that they will admit anyone and you may still have to deal with a few liberal or "woke" professors. The good thing about this though is that you likely will not have someone "Water Dog Preecher" spewing their baptismal regeneration nonsense and just focus on academics. If they have a solid program related to their chosen field of study, I would say go for it. Just do not go in with any sort of illusion that they are in a protected or sheltered environment.
My personal recommendation woud be for them to take courses at your local Junior College to get all of the lower division and general education stuff knocked out first.
You’re preaching to the choir on that, but kids will be kids.
I didn't know that...
A friend who discipled me as my college/career pastor earned his doctorate there.
Yeah, it’s up there—financially too. It’s about $100K per year with room/board: https://seaver.pepperdine.edu/admission/financial-aid/undergraduate/costs/budget-costs.htm (BTW, the CoC college we’re looking at is most definitely NOT Pepperdine!
)
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,182
- Reaction score
- 245
- Points
- 63
In the 70s when I attended BJU for one year, students who considered transferring out, was told you are out of God's will