Righteousness of the law

[ALAYMAN]

Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

In what sense is this statement used by the apostle Paul true?

But more specifically, how did Moses understand righteousness by faith (as opposed to keeping the law by works) when he made this statement?

 

[biscuit1953]

Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

In what sense is this statement used by the apostle Paul true?

But more specifically, how did Moses understand righteousness by faith (as opposed to keeping the law by works) when he made this statement?

I think Moses clearly understood that the Ten Commandments (the moral law) was God’s standard for righteousness. The Old Testament saints also understood that keeping the Law was impossible because of the need for daily sacrifices for sin. Paul elaborates on this when he said that “if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (Gal 2:21). If it was possible to keep the law perfectly then there was no need for Christ to come to earth in the flesh to pay for our sins (Col 1:14). Jesus said he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17).

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus condemned sin in the flesh by keeping every aspect of the law and thereby was able to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. In Mark 7:21-23 Jesus distinguished between the ceremonial aspects of the law which could be taken care of by ritual washings and moral defilement which corrupts a person’s soul and can only be dealt with by the blood of Christ.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mark 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mark 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

“The law is like a moral mirror. It shuts our mouths and opens our eyes. It condemns but does not convert. It challenges but does not change. It points the finger but can’t give mercy. It drives us to Jesus who has the answer we are looking for.” (Greg Laurie)

 

[abcaines]

I think Moses clearly understood that the Ten Commandments (the moral law) was God’s standard for righteousness. The Old Testament saints also understood that keeping the Law was impossible because of the need for daily sacrifices for sin. Paul elaborates on this when he said that “if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (Gal 2:21). If it was possible to keep the law perfectly then there was no need for Christ to come to earth in the flesh to pay for our sins (Col 1:14). Jesus said he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17).

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus condemned sin in the flesh by keeping every aspect of the law and thereby was able to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. In Mark 7:21-23 Jesus distinguished between the ceremonial aspects of the law which could be taken care of by ritual washings and moral defilement which corrupts a person’s soul and can only be dealt with by the blood of Christ.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mark 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mark 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

“The law is like a moral mirror. It shuts our mouths and opens our eyes. It condemns but does not convert. It challenges but does not change. It points the finger but can’t give mercy. It drives us to Jesus who has the answer we are looking for.” (Greg Laurie)

What you said.

The quote by Greg Laurie sums up the whole issue.

 

[ALAYMAN]

What you said.

The quote by Greg Laurie sums up the whole issue.

I agree that we know what justification is based upon, given the revelation of New testament. What I am asking is, what did Moses understand? Looking at that text, given it's historical setting, would it be justifiable to understand that the Jews, by and large, would understand justification by faith alone.

 

[abcaines]

I agree that we know what justification is based upon, given the revelation of New testament. What I am asking is, what did Moses understand? Looking at that text, given it's historical setting, would it be justifiable to understand that the Jews, by and large, would understand justification by faith alone.

Perhaps a look at what the apostle Paul had to say about his past might give some insight...

If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: Circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness in the law, faultless.

It looks to me like Saul of Tarsus understood little of justification by faith alone.

Contrast Paul's summation of his life before Christ with David's words from Psalm 51:

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to Your loving devotion;
according to Your great compassion, blot out my transgressions.
Wash me clean of my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.

and

Surely You desire truth in the inmost being; You teach me wisdom in the inmost place.
Purify me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones You have crushed rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquities.

His conclusion on Justification:

For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

I can't honestly say that "by and large" Jews understood justification by faith. Some did but many didn't. When Elijah was distraught about being the only righteous Jew and God informed him the there were 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal, I conclude that Jews who understood were in the minority.

Those who understood were marked by lives of righteousness (not sinless perfection). Same as today whether Jewish or not.

What exactly Moses understood is hard to say. It requires quite a bit of speculation. When I was a new believer, I couldn't articulate the whole justification by faith thing... I knew justification came from God alone and that was all. I think it was the same for all believers in the OT. We in the NT and beyond have the added advantage of revelation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[biscuit1953]

I agree that we know what justification is based upon, given the revelation of New testament. What I am asking is, what did Moses understand? Looking at that text, given it's historical setting, would it be justifiable to understand that the Jews, by and large, would understand justification by faith alone.

Revelation is progressive and there are many things written in the OT that the writer could not understand at the time it was written.

1Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Psalms 2 was written by David but we now know that it refers to Jesus according to Acts 4:25 and is sometimes referred to as “the law of subsequent narration.” This sheds light on a lot of the Psalms where the original writer may not have known all the details of the events he was describing but is revealed to us in the NT. In Luke 24:27 Jesus after His resurrection expounded to the disciples scriptures concerning Himself that up to then had been a mystery as to exactly what the prophets were saying.

The David Jeremiah Study Bible has an article on how the OT saints were saved by faith and I think it sums everything up quite well:

“Many Jewish people at the time of Jesus believed that salvation was a “reward” for keeping the law of God. Orthodox Jews in our own day speak of works of righteousness such as public reading of Torah, reciting prayers, and giving to the poor as ways to placate God instead of offering sacrifices since there is no temple today. If the keeping of rules were a possible means of achieving salvation from sin and death, then Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection – His atonement for our sins - would be unnecessary.

Many Jewish people in Paul’s day argued that a man had to be circumcised and he had to keep the law in its fullness to he saved (Acts 15:5). Paul, however shows in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified by his faith, quoting Genesis 15:6 and his acceptance of the rite of circumcision (17:26) was an act of obedience by a person who was already saved. Believing in God and acting on that belief as a demonstration of faith have always been the way to “get right” with God.

In the later periods of OT times, obedience to the laws God gave through Moses was no more a means of salvation than it is in NT times. However, compliance with God’s laws was a witness to one’s faith in God. As Jesus said, ‘But why do you call Me Lord,” and not do the things which I say” (Luke 6:46). True faith is always expressed by actions that please God.

Faith is the same for us as for Noah, Abraham, and anyone else who has ever believed: it is “being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see” (Heb 11:1). And “without faith it is impossible to please [God], for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (Heb 11:6)."

 

[abcaines]

Wow. Meaningful discussion... I was beginning to forget what that's like...

 

[Ekklesian]

In what sense is this statement used by the apostle Paul true?

It is true if the one under the law does the commandments of the Lord, in other words, if he were righteous to begin with.

Luke 10:25-28 - And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

But more specifically, how did Moses understand righteousness by faith (as opposed to keeping the law by works) when he made this statement?

what did Moses understand

Moses understood the righteousness which is by faith in his prophecy of Christ. When the people heard the voice of the Lord from the fire, they were taken with fear of death, and begged that the Lord would stop speaking to them, or they would die.

The Lord said they had well spoken.

And Moses promised a Prophet from among them to be raised up that would reveal God's will to them in another manner. They could listen to Him and live, or they could listen to God in the fire and die.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

 

[Ekklesian]

Looking at that text, given it's historical setting, would it be justifiable to understand that the Jews, by and large, would understand justification by faith alone.

Not by and large. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. - Hebrews 4:2

 

[Ekklesian]

The elect among them, however, had faith, evident by their belief in what God said. Abraham believed God. It doesn't say he believed in God, it says he believed God.

When that which was promised to Abraham came, Israel, by and large, did not obtain it, because they didn't seek it in faith. But the election obtained it. Romans 11:7

 

[ALAYMAN]

Revelation is progressive and there are many things written in the OT that the writer could not understand at the time it was written.

1Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Psalms 2 was written by David but we now know that it refers to Jesus according to Acts 4:25 and is sometimes referred to as “the law of subsequent narration.” This sheds light on a lot of the Psalms where the original writer may not have known all the details of the events he was describing but is revealed to us in the NT. In Luke 24:27 Jesus after His resurrection expounded to the disciples scriptures concerning Himself that up to then had been a mystery as to exactly what the prophets were saying.

The David Jeremiah Study Bible has an article on how the OT saints were saved by faith and I think it sums everything up quite well:

“Many Jewish people at the time of Jesus believed that salvation was a “reward” for keeping the law of God. Orthodox Jews in our own day speak of works of righteousness such as public reading of Torah, reciting prayers, and giving to the poor as ways to placate God instead of offering sacrifices since there is no temple today. If the keeping of rules were a possible means of achieving salvation from sin and death, then Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection – His atonement for our sins - would be unnecessary.

Many Jewish people in Paul’s day argued that a man had to be circumcised and he had to keep the law in its fullness to he saved (Acts 15:5). Paul, however shows in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified by his faith, quoting Genesis 15:6 and his acceptance of the rite of circumcision (17:26) was an act of obedience by a person who was already saved. Believing in God and acting on that belief as a demonstration of faith have always been the way to “get right” with God.

In the later periods of OT times, obedience to the laws God gave through Moses was no more a means of salvation than it is in NT times. However, compliance with God’s laws was a witness to one’s faith in God. As Jesus said, ‘But why do you call Me Lord,” and not do the things which I say” (Luke 6:46). True faith is always expressed by actions that please God.

Faith is the same for us as for Noah, Abraham, and anyone else who has ever believed: it is “being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see” (Heb 11:1). And “without faith it is impossible to please [God], for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (Heb 11:6)."

I think this is the best way to view their understanding (progressive revelation), limited as it was. Thanks for comprehensive answer.

 

[AverageJoe]

I agree that we know what justification is based upon, given the revelation of New testament. What I am asking is, what did Moses understand? Looking at that text, given it's historical setting, would it be justifiable to understand that the Jews, by and large, would understand justification by faith alone.

I'm pretty sure that Moses understood that the letter of the Law wasn't sufficient to justify, that faith was far more important. His faith in what God said and had showed him gave him proof that faith was paramount.

 

[Ekklesian]

As long as the conclusion is that the righteousness of the law is Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[ALAYMAN]

As long as the conclusion is that the righteousness of the law is Jesus Christ Himself.

Sure, you and I know that, Moses didn't. Hence, progressive revelation helps us be real in our hermeneutics.

 

[biscuit1953]

In 1980 the Supreme Court removed school Bible readings: “If posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will induce the schoolchildren to read, mediate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the Commandments...establishment clause.” Stone v. Graham, 1980

The Supreme Court was so worried that children might actually be influenced by the Ten Commandments to keep them that they had to outlaw them. No wonder many of our schools today are nothing more than an urban jungles.

The Ten commandments were never given for the purpose of obtaining salvation “for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom 3:30).
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

No one knows that lime has heat until he pours water upon it. Then the heat has occasion to show itself. The water did not create the heat in the lime, but it has made itself manifest. It is similar to the will of man and the Law. The Evidence Bible

“We study the law of God because the law reveals to us not only the righteousness of God and His holiness, but by contrast it stands as a mirror. I look in the mirror of God’s law and I realize my utter helplessness in and of myself.” (R.C. Sproul)

 

[Ekklesian]

Sure, you and I know that, Moses didn't.

He knew that what was at his hands was not his final destination.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. - Hebrews 11:13-16​

 

[ALAYMAN]

He knew that what was at his hands was not his final destination.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. - Hebrews 11:13-16​

No doubt Moses had saving faith, without question. But there's more nuance to this conversation, and I'm not sure if your quote addresses that nuance.