Convicting. Or Should Be.

As if there is no hate coming from the opposite side of the divide.
You ignored the point I made.
“However when you measure the hatred the Dems have for Trump If there was incriminating evidence there it would be used against him. If they could get trump they’d gladly sacrifice a few Dems in the process.”

Got TDS?
That was rhetorical…we know the answer.
 
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As my mother said many times when asked who she voted for; it's none of your d**n business.
We know that you only voted for candidates that meet the high moral secret standard that you have for all candidates.
 
I read it. Lots of interesting statements. Let's examine them for discussion.

Who (and how) is confusing politics or a party with the gospel?

Who (and how) is saying Jesus is taking sides with a political party or candidate? And how is "take sides with" defined?

Who (and how) is confusing American culture with Christianity?

How is Donald Trump guilty of these apparent generic charges of Tozer?
It isn't directed at Trump. It is directed at the church.

I will return to my original and base concern, which is the church being unequally yoked with a worldly system. Again, predating the rise of Mr. Trump.
 
It isn't directed at Trump. It is directed at the church.

I will return to my original and base concern, which is the church being unequally yoked with a worldly system. Again, predating the rise of Mr. Trump.
What exactly does it mean to be “unequally yoked with a worldly system”?
What is a worldly system?

We can’t vote?
We can’t have and express political opinions?
We deny our earthly citizenship?
Is it wrong to pay taxes? After all, that supports the worldly gubmit.
Or do we just wit with you until the holy Democrats regain power?
 
GENERALLY SPEAKING, I just think the church and its pastors would be far more faithful to its mission to preach the gospel message consistently than to entangle itself in the political issues of the hour. I really don't attend to hear anyone's political opinions.
 
GENERALLY SPEAKING, I just think the church and its pastors would be far more faithful to its mission to preach the gospel message consistently than to entangle itself in the political issues of the hour. I really don't attend to hear anyone's political opinions.
I agree. I am part of a staunch politically conservative congregation. Political discussion frequently arises and even though I would be inclined to agree with fellow congregants, I find such discussion to be draining and not very edifying. To our pastor's credit, political rhetoric is non existent from the pulpit. He won't avoid social issues but he frames them in biblical terms.
 
GENERALLY SPEAKING, I just think the church and its pastors would be far more faithful to its mission to preach the gospel message consistently than to entangle itself in the political issues of the hour. I really don't attend to hear anyone's political opinions.
Charles Spurgeon clearly made the gospel the central theme of his life and ministry and yet he spoke often of political things taking place at his time in history. In 1859 word had gotten out that he supported chattel slavery and although it had been outlawed in England he realized that many Americans read his sermons and felt compelled to address the issue from his pulpit in London. He also praised John Brown saying, “If Brown was in fact executed he would be a Christian martyr.” These things caused his sermons to be burned in America. Spurgeon was also a firm defender of women’s suffrage, and was open about his own allegiance to the Liberal Party.

“I do from my inmost soul detest slavery . . . and although I commune at the Lord’s table with men of all creeds, yet with a slave-holder I have no fellowship of any sort or kind. Whenever one has called upon me, I have considered it my duty to express my detestation of his wickedness, and I would as soon think of receiving a murderer into my church . . . as a man stealer.“ Spurgeon

The line is constantly moving as to what the definition of “politics” is. Marriage between a man and a woman, transgenderism, and things now being promoted that are a direct attack on the word of God, are now considered to be “political.” To say a preacher can’t address things going on in society that the Bible condemns because people might be offended and reject the gospel is laughable. We can preach the gospel while calling out wrongdoing. Pastors who preach a gospel that Christians can continue to be thieves, drunkards, extortioners, homosexuals, and anything else they want to be as long as they “believe” will one day stand before God to give an account for the souls they helped send to hell. See 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
 
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GENERALLY SPEAKING, I just think the church and its pastors would be far more faithful to its mission to preach the gospel message consistently than to entangle itself in the political issues of the hour. I really don't attend to hear anyone's political opinions.
The problem with that is that political issues are sometimes Biblical and moral issues.
I would never hesitate to speak out on abortion, trans and gay issues…even though they are hot button political issues.
 
It isn't directed at Trump. It is directed at the church.

I will return to my original and base concern, which is the church being unequally yoked with a worldly system. Again, predating the rise of Mr. Trump.
Ok, apply my question(s) to "the church". Give some contemporary examples of churches violating Tozer's admonition(s).
 
Ok, apply my question(s) to "the church". Give some contemporary examples of churches violating Tozer's admonition(s).
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems there is some confusion about Christians wanting moral laws to be passed that is being conflated as an attempt to bring about a theocracy. Most Christians believe in freedom of religion as well as the freedom to allow things they themselves may find personally objectionable. Blue Laws and dry counties used to be very common across the United States but some communities did allow such things. I believe every community should be allowed up to a point to have laws that reflect its own values. Since the Democratic Party has turned hard left in connection with any kind of morality and promoting laws that attack religious freedom, most Christians have turned to the Republican Party but that doesn’t mean they support a theocracy and it certainly doesn’t mean that just because they may support Donald Trump for President they blindly support everything he says or does. It isn’t staining the gospel by speaking out on moral issues and wanting leaders that aren’t working to restrict the freedom of religion and basic morality such as abortion. It is dishonest to suggest that. There are always going to be fringe groups that want to apply Old Testament civil laws to modern society but I don’t believe the vast majority of evangelical Christians fit in that category.
 
Charles Spurgeon clearly made the gospel the central theme of his life and ministry and yet he spoke often of political things taking place at his time in history.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon was also a pacifist. He would definitely not be acceptable in any IFB church today.


“Long have I held that war is an enormous crime. . . . The church, we affirm, can neither be preserved nor can its interests be promoted by human armies. . . . If tyrants fight, let them fight; let free men stand aloof. Why should England have aught to do with all the coming battles? As God has cut us off from Europe by a boisterous sea, so let us be kept apart from all the broils and turmoils into which tyrants and their slaves may fall.”
 
I read it. Lots of interesting statements. Let's examine them for discussion.

Who (and how) is confusing politics or a party with the gospel?

Who (and how) is saying Jesus is taking sides with a political party or candidate? And how is "take sides with" defined?

Who (and how) is confusing American culture with Christianity?

How is Donald Trump guilty of these apparent generic charges of Tozer?
Bump.
 
“Long have I held that war is an enormous crime. . . . The church, we affirm, can neither be preserved nor can its interests be promoted by human armies. . . . If tyrants fight, let them fight; let free men stand aloof. Why should England have aught to do with all the coming battles? As God has cut us off from Europe by a boisterous sea, so let us be kept apart from all the broils and turmoils into which tyrants and their slaves may fall.”
Surgeon's statement about England being shielded by the sea is myopic because it ignored the role of naval power in war. No, soldiers wouldn't march across the channel but ground forces don't stand alone.

I can't imagine even a total declaration of neutrality during the years leading up to WW1 would have shielded England from the war since international affairs had become so intertwined that conflict on the continent would have direct repercussions on England.
 
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems there is some confusion about Christians wanting moral laws to be passed that is being conflated as an attempt to bring about a theocracy. Most Christians believe in freedom of religion as well as the freedom to allow things they themselves may find personally objectionable. Blue Laws and dry counties used to be very common across the United States but some communities did allow such things. I believe every community should be allowed up to a point to have laws that reflect its own values. Since the Democratic Party has turned hard left in connection with any kind of morality and promoting laws that attack religious freedom, most Christians have turned to the Republican Party but that doesn’t mean they support a theocracy and it certainly doesn’t mean that just because they may support Donald Trump for President they blindly support everything he says or does. It isn’t staining the gospel by speaking out on moral issues and wanting leaders that aren’t working to restrict the freedom of religion and basic morality such as abortion. It is dishonest to suggest that. There are always going to be fringe groups that want to apply Old Testament civil laws to modern society but I don’t believe the vast majority of evangelical Christians fit in that category.
Well said.
 
Charles Haddon Spurgeon was also a pacifist. He would definitely not be acceptable in any IFB church today.


“Long have I held that war is an enormous crime. . . . The church, we affirm, can neither be preserved nor can its interests be promoted by human armies. . . . If tyrants fight, let them fight; let free men stand aloof. Why should England have aught to do with all the coming battles? As God has cut us off from Europe by a boisterous sea, so let us be kept apart from all the broils and turmoils into which tyrants and their slaves may fall.”
It almost sounds like Donald Trump on this issue doesn't it. Seriously though, I'm no neocon and even though I no longer attend an IFB church I believe you could probably find many Christians of nearly all persuasions that don't advocate for Crusades. The military should be for defending our country, not sticking our noses into every conflict around the world. I agree with President Trump though that Iran should never be allowed to have nuclear weapons since they vow to destroy us by any means possible. Christians can disagree on many different things.
 
Why do you think that is?
Why do I think Iran wants to destroy us? I don’t know, maybe its because Iran is based on a theocratic Islamic government that is fundamentally opposed to Western values, and hates anyone who doesn’t hate Israel since they don’t believe Israel has a right to exist. Just guessing.
 
What does a "right to exist" mean?
Let me go find my hate-filled, Nazi-loving, foul-mouthed, Jew-hating, racist friend and I’ll try to get back with you on that ignorant question.
 
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Let me go find my hate-filled, Nazi-loving, foul-mouthed, Jew-hating, racist friend and I’ll try to get back with you on that ignorant question.
I'd prefer you find a friend who can think (if you have any) before getting back to me, but if all you have are hate-filled, Nazi-loving, foul-mouthed, Jew-hating, racist friends, I guess that will have to do.

Present day Israel is a geopolitical state, like Iraq, or Denmark...only Denmark has a long cultural history, so being an Israeli or an Iraqi is not quite the same thing as being a Dane, or even an Iranian, but that's another story.

Any nation or state today is a legal corporation. The borders of Iraq and Israel were artificially drawn by a foreign alliance in the twentieth century, and people were moved in (or out) by external forces.

Ancestry and nationality are no longer the same things...especially in the Middle East...and not even close in the cases of Iraq and Israel.

I'm finding that I'm agreeing with the orthodox rabbi,Yaakov Shapiro,...whose videos you refused to consider (probably due to the influence of your hate-filled, Nazi-loving, foul-mouthed, Jew-hating, racist friendships)...that Zionism is identity theft and idolatry. And he's not alone. I was surprised to learn that anti-Zionism among the Jews is not the aberration—Zionism is...

In England, when they had the Balfour Declaration, there was one Jewish member of the cabinet...his name was Edwin Montague...he was against the Balfour Declaration he was...against Zionism.

...
Support of IsraelTM is not the same thing as support for the Jews.

Anyway, you can't be blamed for not knowing that, swimming, as we all do, in a cesspool of Christian Zionist propaganda, and you especially with the added vomitus of Dispensationalism and your own Apocryphal canon, The Late Great Planet Earth et al.

But you can be blamed for believing Hal Lindsey over Christ's Apostles...and you will be.
 
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