Euthanasia And Sanctity Of Life

DrHuk&Duck said:
This conversation started was started by me because a few people were questioning whether a husband did the morally acceptable act by blasting his wife’s head off with a shotgun, apparently because she either had Parkinson’s or dementia (or both). He then turned the gun on himself and committed suicide. I’m still awaiting a Scriptural reference for how either act is biblical. Rather than discussing the topic of murder, I decided to be a little more politically correct and call it euthanasia (though I still call it murder). If you’d like to stop acting like an emotional, jilted teenage girl for a moment and look back on the thread, it was actually @subllibrm who began the questioning of IVF, not me. He asked a question, I answered, followed by you, @ALAYMAN and others. None of my quotes were directed at him, I was stating my case and rationale behind my answers. That’s where my conscience sits on the matter. Quit being such a drama queen and bootlicker for the guy. He put himself out there, and I don’t have to sit in silence because he chose a side I don’t agree with.
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Quit being a Zophar and making a judgment where you should be silent.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
To me, your attitude comes across as snarky, petty and very unchristian like. Perhaps you should inspect the plank in your eye before calling out others like a self-righteous Pharisee.
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To me, your attitude of condemnation towards unethical practices whether in starting or ending life, lacks class. Well did biscuit1953 compare you to Zophar.
 
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abcaines said:
To me, your attitude of condemnation towards ALAYMAN by how he brought his beloved son into existence is very unchristian like and totally lacking class. Well did biscuit1953 compare you to Zophar.
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If I read his comment right, Alayman said the son born to him was conceived naturally, as the 'children' [his words] conceived in the lab failed to implant.
 
Ekklesian said:
I think he intended his back-handed remark for me.
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No, because he quoted both of us, but it really doesn’t matter because everyone has the right to their beliefs. If someone admits they committed adultery on here, am I supposed to be eternally silent on the matter just because a member on here considers that person their friend? How ridiculous!
 
abcaines said:
To me, your attitude of condemnation towards ALAYMAN by how he brought his beloved son into existence is very unchristian like and totally lacking class. Well did biscuit1953 compare you to Zophar.
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That’s not how his son was brought into the world. Also, you’re now gaslighting by saying something false that I’ve clarified in a previous post and never did. So I’ll add “liar” to my list of thoughts concerning you.
 
Ekklesian said:
If I read his comment right, Alayman said the son born to him was conceived naturally, as the 'children' [his words] conceived in the lab failed to implant.
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Yes. He’s gaslighting people on here with false claims. Just ignore him.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Quit being a Zophar and making a judgment where you should be silent.
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I made my comment about IVF PRIOR to Alayman’s first comments. Are you growing senile? Also, Alayman was very clear about the fact that his son was conceived naturally without the use of IVF, so you and ABCaines are either liars or possess poor literacy comprehension skills. Either way, I’d demand an apology, but that takes character, which I don’t think either of you possess.
 
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Ekklesian said:
Is the bible silent, though? Do you consider the unwanted embryos fully human? Are they human life? Are they children? Are they Alayman's children?
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Today we now know this, hence my link to the ruling on this by the Alabama Supreme Court last year. However, as I said, I wouldn’t judge someone who did this twenty years ago because the scientific knowledge wasn’t known then like now. (Despite saying that already, apparently I’m still accused of “attacking” Alayman by Mr. Senile and Mr. Liar.)
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I may have misunderstood your post, but anyway, my point was that we now scientifically know information about IVF that we didn’t know fifteen or twenty years ago, hence my comment about the recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court on the matter. I wouldn’t hold a Christian morally responsible for doing this twenty years ago because the scientific understanding was not what it is today. I will say that IVF has long been a bit of a flip-a-coin situation in the Protestant world, but among Catholics, they have held the line tightly against it since the beginning (and have been proven correct).
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What do you think is in that ruling that is at odds with what I have stated I believe about IVF?

Regarding the Alabama ruling on what constitutes life and when it begins, as you've already alluded to Protestant Christianity is split over this issue. Here's a few articles on the side of the aisle that I sit on...

Link

Link2

The bottom line is, your dogmatism and moral certainty won't bind my conscience on opinions and philosophies that I've held for a long time. Life begins at conception, and an embryo is a human being. We held that opinion long before Alabama ever ruled such.
 
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subllibrm said:
I reread this and the rest of the thread before responding. If I am reading this record of your experience correctly, there never were any IVF embryos before Alayboy came along.
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At about age 25 we first began to desire beginning of a family. After several years we realized something was wrong. We got tested. After being poked and prodded they declared no determination could be made for the reason of our difficulty conceiving.

So About the age of 30, we began investigating IVF, and out of fear that the biological clock was ticking we agreed to go down the IVF path. The numbers of successful pregnancy start dropping precipitously the older a woman gets. As she approaches the age of 40 the viability of the egg in her uterus becomes greatly impaired and the risks of abnormalities skyrockets. Back then they said that the age which we should be concerned about was about 36.

So we had several unsuccessful implantations in our mid-thirties in one IVF trial. A total of 19 embryos were created and they were eventually implanted (multiple at a time in 3 implantations). Some of the embryos stopped dividing and weren't viable for implantation. We never had to face the dilemma of putting our <frozen> children up for adoption. It was very costly financially and after that unsuccessful effort, coupled with the entire process being extremely emotionally draining, we decided that we would not do IVF anymore, and if it was the Lord's will that we have children that we would adopt.

We looked into various credible agencies, like one that Jerry Falwell had sponsored, and prayed and waited for the Lord's leading. That was when I was about 35. It was Christmas Eve of 2004 when my wife told me that she was late, about 2 months. We had had this happen before, so we were cautious and nervous to say the least, but excited. The rest is history, and we can't put him back. 😁

Psalm 127:3
 
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Ekklesian said:
Is the bible silent, though? Do you consider the unwanted embryos fully human? Are they human life? Are they children? Are they Alayman's children?
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Do you require implantation in order to declare something human life? I assume the answer that is no, and if so, life begins at conception means that those embryos are humans.
 
Ekklesian said:
If I read his comment right, Alayman said the son born to him was conceived naturally, as the 'children' [his words] conceived in the lab failed to implant.
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Correct
 
ALAYMAN said:
What do you think is in that ruling that is at odds with what I have stated I believe about IVF?

Regarding the Alabama ruling on what constitutes life and when it begins, as you've already alluded to Protestant Christianity is split over this issue. Here's a few articles on the side of the aisle that I sit on...

Link

Link2

The bottom line is, your dogmatism and moral certainty won't bind my conscience on opinions and philosophies that I've held for a long time. Life begins at conception, and an embryo is a human being. We held that opinion long before Alabama ever ruled such.
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I have understood from your first post that your son was not conceived via IVF, despite being repeatedly accused of attacking you for such. (I’m still awaiting an apology from your cheerleading squad.) My only point of concern was the process of IVF itself, which I believe is unethical. (You actually went into detail about some of the ethical concerns.) I happen to believe it is a violation of natural law.

And no, I don’t anticipate nor desire to change your mind on such an issue (or for that matter, any issue). I just expect to be able to state my opinion without being lied about. For the record, I’m glad God blessed you and your wife with a son. Hopefully he’s doing well in college. I’m guessing he’s a sophomore by now.
 
Alright, I stand corrected. I was wrong assuming that ALAYMAN'S child was the product of IVF and that he was being castigated for attempting it.

However, I do not back down from calling out the bull in the china shop approach at the ethical questions surrounding this practice or the practice of ending a life.
 
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DrHuk&Duck said:
I have understood from your first post that your son was not conceived via IVF, despite being repeatedly accused of attacking you for such. (I’m still awaiting an apology from your cheerleading squad.) My only point of concern was the process of IVF itself, which I believe is unethical. (You actually went into detail about some of the ethical concerns.) I happen to believe it is a violation of natural law.
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Do you likewise believe, as the Roman Catholic Church does, that contraception is a violation of Natural Law?
DrHuk&Duck said:
And no, I don’t anticipate nor desire to change your mind on such an issue (or for that matter, any issue). I just expect to be able to state my opinion without being lied about. For the record, I’m glad God blessed you and your wife with a son. Hopefully he’s doing well in college. I’m guessing he’s a sophomore by now.
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Thank you. He's a junior in this upcoming fall semester. He starts back next Monday, and due to his stubbornness he is now financially supporting his own collegiate plans 😊
 
ALAYMAN said:
Do you likewise believe, as the Roman Catholic Church does, that contraception is a violation of Natural Law?
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I do, but I’m guilty of this sin. I will one day have to answer to God.
 
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