Euthanasia And Sanctity Of Life

Ekklesian said:
It won't matter that I will say I'm not pronouncing damnation on anyone. It's the truth, but it won't matter, and since I'm the bad guy here anyway...

Children are not food and drink.

I'm surprised this needed to be said.

Therefore, their welfare is not a questionable matter, and the instructions concerning the liberty in consuming certain meats and wines have no bearing on the subject. It's not even close.

The position commonly taken here is that a fully human life begins at conception, and a human embryo is a human child.

Proceeding from that premise, and knowing full well that the risk of failure to implant, resulting in the certain death of the child, is high...which is why so many eggs are fertilized to begin with...

How is IVF not, at the very least, child endangerment, and child abuse? How is it not murder or manslaughter?

How would this process be any less dastardly than if, for adoptive parents, three or four orphans were sent down a giant slide where only one might land safely in a feather bed while the rest were sent to their deaths in a deep canyon at the bottom of the slide?

Unless the embryos are not really children, and their progenitors are not immediately subject to the divine imperative to protect them and to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, where is the escape from those indictments?
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So by your logic, once we realized that we were not having embryos implanting during natural intercourse we should have stopped the marital act because we were knowingly putting children into the womb knowing that they were bound to not live. 😜
 
Ekklesian said:
This wasn't an allusion to Romans 14 with an emphasis on verse 21? (xref 1 Cor. 8)
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No, it wasn't an allusion to that passage. It was a reference to those apt to censoriousness (1 Cor 13:5).
 
ALAYMAN said:
So by your logic, once we realized that we were not having embryos implanting during natural intercourse we should have stopped the marital act because we were knowingly putting children into the womb knowing that they were bound to not live. 😜
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Not by my logic. By yours, if you're going to be consistent.
 
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ALAYMAN said:
No, it wasn't an allusion to that passage. It was a reference to those apt to censoriousness (1 Cor 13:5).
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...about something as 'innocuous' as drinking wine, the very point being made in Romans about walking charitably (Rom 14:15).

But again you have to draw a false parallel, equating human children to something that is not equal to them...in this case, food and drink.

But if 1 Cor. 13:5 is your concern, how can you say that in going to such extremes for a biological child one is not being self-seeking?
 
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ALAYMAN said:
No, it wasn't an allusion to that passage. It was a reference to those apt to censoriousness (1 Cor 13:5).
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I’ve been a little surprised at this conversation because I thought all of you shared my belief.

Do you not ask for forgiveness of your sins daily before praying? I was taught that if you don’t ask for forgiveness of sins, then you can’t be heard by God.

What @voicecrying is saying would mean we can do anything we want with impunity just because we’re saved.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I believe he died for our sins prior to salvation. Once saved, we are accountable for our sins again before God after death.
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And how is that good news? A few minutes after "salvation," you're right back where you started.

The atoning work of Christ on the cross is the only objective basis by which we may know our sins are forgiven. On what objective basis does God forgive the ones committed after salvation?
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Do you not ask for forgiveness of your sins daily before praying? I was taught that if you don’t ask for forgiveness of sins, then you can’t be heard by God.
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No. My next sin is already forgiven. Forgiveness is found in Jesus Christ. All my sins have already been forgiven. I do confess sins and ask for help to overcome the temptation next time, but I don't need anymore forgiveness than that which I've already received.

DrHuk&Duck said:
What @voicecrying is saying would mean we can do anything we want with impunity just because we’re saved.
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Paul addresses this mindset in Romans.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’ve been a little surprised at this conversation because I thought all of you shared my belief.

Do you not ask for forgiveness of your sins daily before praying? I was taught that if you don’t ask for forgiveness of sins, then you can’t be heard by God.

What @voicecrying is saying would mean we can do anything we want with impunity just because we’re saved.
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As voicecrying alluded to, Paul deals with this false premise about the nature and abuse of grace...

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

That's the short answer, but read the whole chapter in context and you'll see that the individual who has been born again does not view sin that way.
 
Ekklesian said:
...about something as 'innocuous' as drinking wine, the very point being made in Romans about walking charitably (Rom 14:15).

But again you have to draw a false parallel, equating human children to something that is not equal to them...in this case, food and drink.

But if 1 Cor. 13:5 is your concern, how can you say that in going to such extremes for a biological child one is not being self-seeking?
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"Going to extremes" to fulfill the mandate to replenish the Earth does not seem extreme to me. My conscience is persuaded, despite the dogmatism that you and others seem to have on this issue. Let each man be persuaded in his own mind, and act charitably towards others who don't hold the same scruples.
 
Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind. When you accept Jesus as your savior, all sins are forgiven. However, we’re still human and still possess a sinful nature. Yes, your sins may be forgiven, but you are still accountable to God for your sins. This happens on Judgement Day. We don’t get to just skip through life doing any sins we want because we got saved (2 Corinthians 5:10). Here’s a good article about Christians being judged: https://www.tenth.org/resource-library/articles/will-christians-be-judged/
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind. When you accept Jesus as your savior, all sins are forgiven. However, we’re still human and still possess a sinful nature. Yes, your sins may be forgiven, but you are still accountable to God for your sins. This happens on Judgement Day. We don’t get to just skip through life doing any sins we want because we got saved (2 Corinthians 5:10). Here’s a good article about Christians being judged: https://www.tenth.org/resource-library/articles/will-christians-be-judged/
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That article is reasonably accurate. Notice how he pivots from any concept of shame in judgment to a notion of rewards. This is common teaching on the judgment seat of Christ. From your favorite website 😁...

Got Questions
 
ALAYMAN said:
That article is reasonably accurate. Notice how he pivots from any concept of shame in judgment to a notion of rewards. This is common teaching on the judgment seat of Christ. From your favorite website 😁...

Got Questions
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Maybe “accountable” is a better word. Yes, rewards are part of my belief system, and the Bible is clear about this. But I don’t think we as Christians get to run amok through life doing any sins we want just because we’re saved. I’m not saying we lose salvation, or that we’ll have our sins broadcasted on a theater screen, but we will have to pay a penalty. Perhaps, as C.S. Lewis said, it’ll be a type of purgatory: “Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, “It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy”? Should we not reply, “With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleaned first.” “It may hurt, you know”—"Even so, sir.”
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Maybe “accountable” is a better word. Yes, rewards are part of my belief system, and the Bible is clear about this. But I don’t think we as Christians get to run amok through life doing any sins we want just because we’re saved. I’m not saying we lose salvation, or that we’ll have our sins broadcasted on a theater screen, but we will have to pay a penalty. Perhaps, as C.S. Lewis said, it’ll be a type of purgatory: “Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, “It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy”? Should we not reply, “With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleaned first.” “It may hurt, you know”—"Even so, sir.”
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Lewis was fallible, scripture not so much.

I don't think that people are taking exception with your idea that we ought not to live/walk according to the flesh, but rather the way you express it. For instance, when you say "we will have to pay a penalty" it evokes images that are, as Lewis alluded to, Catholic. If, however, by "penalty" you mean we will suffer loss of rewards, then nobody here would think twice about what you mean.

Similarly, lots of biblical language speaks of the good/holy stewardship of our lives. " Work out your salvation with fear and trembling", "don't make your faith shipwreck", and "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire". All these are sober warnings, not to live a life devoid of faith, but rather urges us to live out a faith that works.

Here's more good reading on the subject.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Lewis was fallible, scripture not so much.

I don't think that people are taking exception with your idea that we ought not to live/walk according to the flesh, but rather the way you express it. For instance, when you say "we will have to pay a penalty" it evokes images that are, as Lewis alluded to, Catholic. If, however, by "penalty" you mean we will suffer loss of rewards, then nobody here would think twice about what you mean.

Similarly, lots of biblical language speaks of the good/holy stewardship of our lives. " Work out your salvation with fear and trembling", "don't make your faith shipwreck", and "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire". All these are sober warnings, not to live a life devoid of faith, but rather urges us to live out a faith that works.

Here's more good reading on the subject.
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As a Christian, when you sin, do you ask God to forgive you of that sin? And I mean now…as in, you scream at your wife in anger. You then apologize and ask her to forgive you. Is your next step not asking God to forgive your sin? Or do you consider that completely unnecessary because Jesus already forgave you?
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
As a Christian, when you sin, do you ask God to forgive you of that sin? And I mean now…as in, you scream at your wife in anger. You then apologize and ask her to forgive you. Is your next step not asking God to forgive your sin? Or do you consider that completely unnecessary because Jesus already forgave you?
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I confess (agree with God) them. Why do you ask?

The issue of forgiveness should be understood twofold, as accomplished (complete, on the cross, think justification), and applied (think ongoing, applied, intercessory).

More good reading
 
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