SBC vs IFB

[Ransom]

\ If the home church isn't financially able to meet the missionary's needs, maybe the missionary should stay at home and help build up their local church rather than spending a year begging for money.

The end result of which is, potentially, a church that pays lip service to missionary work but doesn't send any actual missionaries.

Better that there be some, than none.

Also, there's nothing derogatory about being able to "build tents."

Working in a host country is not always legal for foreign nationals, however.

 

[Ransom]

While I can appreciate the idea of not wasting a bunch of time on deputation, I prefer that a church congregation has more of a "connection" with the missionaries they are supporting.

They can still commission and send their own missionaries. But the cost is shared between churches.

I think of it in a similar way to insurance. Sure, maybe it would be best if you could pay your medical bills, car repairs, and so forth out of pocket. But you still breathe easier knowing that your cost is borne by many people contributing to the system.

 

[Bruh]

This is not good. You really need to be better connected with your church and should sit down and evaluate why this is not the case here. Perhaps sit down and have a meeting with the pastor?

If things are not "clicking" in this congregation, perhaps the Lord would have you elsewhere? There is no shame in "shopping around" and I believe that any good pastor would tell you this as well.

The IFB culture tends to "cloister up" and "circle the wagons" to the point where you have no relationships outside the church. I think it is great that you have such a wide social circle and of course God is calling you to "glorify him" among whomever you find yourself with. This was a big disconnect with me during my IFB years. I became a little more "real" during my "gigging" days playing in bars and stuff and the experience has brought me around to the point where I truly see others as "equals" and "fellow human beings" rather than just "targets" for soulwinning or whatever. I find it far easier and much more natural to witness and present the gospel to others.

Why should we be better connected with the church we attend? We still serve the Lord. I do not blame the pastor for this. Like I said, we are still hanging out with good wholesome people/couples, they just don’t go to church.

They seem to be more well rounded people, in that we can talk and have conversations about other things not just about the bible or church type stuff.

 

[Bruh]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if a church isn’t able to 100% financially support the missionary family they are sending then maybe that church isn’t ready to send families out.

If that man isn’t capable of reaching enough families in his community to disciple and give how is he gonna do that in another country?

If the company where I work puts a man in charge of a section of the company but isn’t able to produce in the position he holds currently how would you expect him to do that in a position in charge of a department?

 

[Ransom]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if a church isn’t able to 100% financially support the missionary family they are sending then maybe that church isn’t ready to send families out.

Since you don't involve yourself in your church "in any way, shape or form," they don't need to care how you think they ought to support their missionaries.

 

[Dr. Duck]

My mom has always said, people are people no matter where you go. That has been my experience leaving the IFB. If you’re trying to find God you will not find him in church. We go to a large non IFB church in the area but have no friendships in the church.

We really like the pastors preaching biblical and in context which we were not accustomed to. It has helped in our journey and we are thankful.

Beyond that, we go, we show up and leave. We are not involved in any way shape or form. I believe we still have a Christian home it just doesn’t look like an IFB home.

Our friendships come from my work and my wifes work. If we hangout with anyone it’s not from church.

Believe it or not, there are couples out here that do not attend church or may not even be born again but live good wholesome lives. We were not taught this in the IFB.

It was hard and weird not to find friendships in church in the beginning but we’ve adjusted and accepted it. And to be honest, we really have some good friends.

We also have family who we see and spend time with typically on a daily basis.

Just curious: Is this a decently sized church? Have you attended long?

I have no issue with having non-church friends, but it seems rather sad that you wouldn’t have connected with at least one family, assuming you’re not new and just don’t know anyone.

 

[Bruh]

Since you don't involve yourself in your church "in any way, shape or form," they don't need to care how you think they ought to support their missionaries.

I’m not speaking to anyone (as far as I know) at church. I’m giving my opinion on the FFF.

But, we were heavily involved for many years and was able to see and experience the outcomes of the way churches financially supported and send families out.

Also,
If that man isn’t capable of reaching enough families in his community to disciple and give how is he gonna do that in another country?

If the company where I work puts a man in charge of a section of the company but isn’t able to produce in the position he holds currently how would you expect him to do that in a position in charge of a department?

 

[Ransom]

I’m giving my opinion on the FFF.

And I'm telling you what it's worth.

 

[Bruh]

Just curious: Is this a decently sized church? Have you attended long?

I have no issue with having non-church friends, but it seems rather sad that you wouldn’t have connected with at least one family, assuming you’re not new and just don’t know anyone.

About 6 years or so. We’ve had couples over and tried to hangout multiple times but just never had that connection, I guess.

And then at some point it becomes where we are the only ones reaching out and then when we stop making the effort the communication stops.

It is what it is. We go, we leave they are happy to see us. They are nice people never rude, always nice.

It’s a large church close to 1,000 people every Sunday. We’ve talked about visiting other churches but we actually really like the pastors preaching. Very relevant in context, very relatable preaching. It’s been good for us.

We find close friendships in the community and work and I believe we are good with that.

I will say, IFB definitely tries to pull people in. I’ll give them that.

 

[Bruh]

And I'm telling you what it's worth.

Thanks I appreciate it.

 

[Dr. Duck]

The denomination was Calvinistic from the start.

Interesting. First time I’ve heard this.

 

[Dr. Duck]

About 6 years or so. We’ve had couples over and tried to hangout multiple times but just never had that connection, I guess.

And then at some point it becomes where we are the only ones reaching out and then when we stop making the effort the communication stops.

It is what it is. We go, we leave they are happy to see us. They are nice people never rude, always nice.

It’s a large church close to 1,000 people every Sunday. We’ve talked about visiting other churches but we actually really like the pastors preaching. Very relevant in context, very relatable preaching. It’s been good for us.

We find close friendships in the community and work and I believe we are good with that.

I will say, IFB definitely tries to pull people in. I’ll give them that.

Sounds like maybe you should consider a smaller congregation. The irony of attending a church with a ton of people is you can end up more isolated and alone than ever.

 

[subllibrm]

Sounds like maybe you should consider a smaller congregation. The irony of attending a church with a ton of people is you can end up more isolated and alone than ever.

I think that some people like to be lost in the crowd.

 

[Ransom]

I think that some people like to be lost in the crowd.

Some people pay lip service to loving Jesus while hating his bride.

 

[subllibrm]

Some people pay lip service to loving Jesus while hating his bride.

Not disagreeing with you there my friend.

 

[ALAYMAN]

As far as the Calvinism thing in IFB land, it’s long been claimed, or at least whispered, that the grand daddy of IFBs (J Frank Norris) was a Calvinist. The college in Texas which he founded (Arlington Baptist) allowed the free flow and debate of “the doctrines of grace” within theological classes. In addition, there was a longtime member of a previous iteration of this forum who was a member of their board of regents that privately told me that faculty was (at least back then) split regarding the issue.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

There are some very good things about the way SBs take care of their missionaries, but, Scripturally, it is the missionary's home church that should assume all financial responsibility for the missionary. If the home church isn't financially able to meet the missionary's needs, maybe the missionary should stay at home and help build up their local church rather than spending a year begging for money. Also, there's nothing derogatory about being able to "build tents."

Not all churches have the financial ability to provide 100% financial support for those they "send out" as missionaries, church planters, and so forth. I do believe that it is more beneficial for a church to maybe support 2-3 missionaries (100% or close to) than to have a wall full of "Prayer Letters" of missionaries you are supporting for $50/Month or whatever but maybe this is just me? If a missionary receives most of their support from two to three churches, he needs to depend on their faithfulness as he will really be in a pickle if there is a "Church Split" or some other crisis resulting in a change of priorities, ministry direction, or whatever. This is where it is advantageous for a missionary to have his support spread around a hundred or so churches. If 100 churches each gave $50/Month support ($5,000/Month total) and one of the churches flaked out, he could likely make adjustments and remain on the field.

"Building Tents" is an option in countries where missionaries have the ability to find employment in the host nation's economy. Some countries will not allow this. If one needs to do such in order to take care of their family, this will sap a good deal of time and energy one would have to do the actual missionary work. I believe there are many who do have some sort of "side hustle" when they are able to do so.

In the Philippines, there are plenty of "Indigenous" pastors who are adequately trained in local Bible Colleges/Seminaries (and speak the language) but there is very little in the way of extra resources whereby one could focus their time on getting a new work established from scratch. Pastors are paid poorly as it is. My church is currently partnering with another church in supporting a new church plant. From discussions I have had with other pastors, I know that many of them desire to plant additional churches but finances are always an issue. This is where I am hoping to help.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

As far as the Calvinism thing in IFB land, it’s long been claimed, or at least whispered, that the grand daddy of IFBs (J Frank Norris) was a Calvinist. The college in Texas which he founded (Arlington Baptist) allowed the free flow and debate of “the doctrines of grace” within theological classes. In addition, there was a longtime member of a previous iteration of this forum who was a member of their board of regents that privately told me that faculty was (at least back then) split regarding the issue.

This is quite interesting! Just goes to show that even Calvinists can be absolute nut jobs!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Why should we be better connected with the church we attend? We still serve the Lord. I do not blame the pastor for this. Like I said, we are still hanging out with good wholesome people/couples, they just don’t go to church.

They seem to be more well rounded people, in that we can talk and have conversations about other things not just about the bible or church type stuff.

Because going to church is far more than just hearing "good preaching!" It is a "Church family" to which you need to be connected with, belong to, where you are accountable one with another, and where you are exercising your spiritual gifts. This is important not only for you but for your family as well.

I am not saying you go to your pastor and complain about it but to ask him where he could see you in his congregation and perhaps help you to become better connected?

I do not know you or whether there is something in your past bring about trust issues or whatever but if so, your pastor could help you sort through such things.

And by all means, keep the "life" you have outside of the church. Just make your "Church life" and your "personal life" the SAME LIFE!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

They can still commission and send their own missionaries. But the cost is shared between churches.

I blieve that missionaries should be connected with and sent by local churches. This is not debatable IMO.

With IFB Mission Boards, the board has a relationship with supporting churches and can vouch for missionaries that they have properly vetted and this is what gets a missionary's "foot in the door" with prospective supporting Churches. From there, the missionary cultivates a relationship with the pastor and each congregation from which they will be receiving support. These would all be favorable reasons for such a model.

I think of it in a similar way to insurance. Sure, maybe it would be best if you could pay your medical bills, car repairs, and so forth out of pocket. But you still breathe easier knowing that your cost is borne by many people contributing to the system.

I agree with this and made comments about such in another reply. I guess I really need to do some more research in the SBC Cooperative Program and NAMB (North American Mission Board). I have heard some stories regarding questionable practices but there are bad apples in any organization.