A Serious Question...

Justice1976 said:
So, your cousins, visitors who were being accompanied by you, were told to leave the campus, solely because they were wearing pants?

Might I ask what year this was?

Second, could someone please explain to me how this would advance the cause of Christ in any way?
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The irony was that if someone was a known sex offender, they could be on campus and perhaps even teach!!
 
Jo said:
No, no. Don't stop. DM me if you want.....lol.

40 people worked in security at the college at one time?! That's a lot of people. Maybe you were talking about the church and school security people?
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LOL I'm talking about staff at church and college were let go.
 
  • TRUTH!
Reactions: Jo
Even if you don't share their views, isn't it appropriate to abide by them if you're asking to enter & tour their private property? Would the purpose in refusing be to defy/offend? To take a stand against their practices? To draw attention to yourselves?

I don't consider the college an evangelical outreach program - it's (theoretically) a training ground for the already like-minded. I assume (or at least hope) the church itself doesn't turn people away based on attire, but see the college as something else entirely.

I'm an HBHS grad who, at 17, chose to (a) wear pants and (b) NOT attend HAC. WE don't have dress codes at our class reunions, but If I ever visit the old high school with the intent of going inside, I'll wear a skirt (if that's what their rules are.)
 
Least of These said:
Even if you don't share their views, isn't it appropriate to abide by them if you're asking to enter & tour their private property? Would the purpose in refusing be to defy/offend? To take a stand against their practices? To draw attention to yourselves?

I don't consider the college an evangelical outreach program - it's (theoretically) a training ground for the already like-minded. I assume (or at least hope) the church itself doesn't turn people away based on attire, but see the college as something else entirely.

I'm an HBHS grad who, at 17, chose to (a) wear pants and (b) NOT attend HAC. WE don't have dress codes at our class reunions, but If I ever visit the old high school with the intent of going inside, I'll wear a skirt (if that's what their rules are.)
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So, in the event that, for example, an alumni who's been gone for decades, who would like to return for a nostalgic visit, comes with someone -- a spouse, friend, relative, etc., who doesn't want to wear a dress/skirt -- someone who is not "challenging" this belief but simple doesn't wear skirts, you turn any and all such people away? You really want to split people and withdraw your hospitality based on YOUR belief and one that is held by an extremely small percentage of Bible believers?

Let me clarify... if this is someone in ther media or even a social media "influencer" -- perhaps someone known to be antagonistic toward the college, I can understand the logic. But under the circumstances I laid out, I would repectfully disagree.

So, the college would LITERALLY tell you, if you come to the campus with your wife and she's wearing pants of any sort, you are not welcomed and you would must leave?

Not that it would hurt my feelings, but no thanks. I'm done with that sort of "Christian" behavior.
 
Justice1976 said:
So, in the event that, for example, an alumni who's been gone for decades, who would like to return for a nostalgic visit, comes with someone -- a spouse, friend, relative, etc., who doesn't want to wear a dress/skirt -- someone who is not "challenging" this belief but simple doesn't wear skirts, you turn any and all such people away? You really want to split people and withdraw your hospitality based on YOUR belief and one that is held by an extremely small percentage of Bible believers?

Let me clarify... if this is someone in ther media or even a social media "influencer" -- perhaps someone known to be antagonistic toward the college, I can understand the logic. But under the circumstances I laid out, I would repectfully disagree.

So, the college would LITERALLY tell you, if you come to the campus with your wife and she's wearing pants of any sort, you are not welcomed and you would must leave?

Not that it would hurt my feelings, but no thanks. I'm done with that sort of "Christian" behavior.
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I don't think they have any obligation - moral, religious or legal - to allow visits from anyone, especially someone who has no interest in becoming a student (and a female who "doesn't wear skirts" obviously has no interest in becoming a student.) I don't see it as inhospitable or divisive. The campus isn't a church, a tourist attraction, or a public meeting place; they don't owe anyone a sight-seeing jaunt through the place they work and live.

I can't say if the college would deny entry or ask a female in pants to leave - hopefully someone has that answer for you. But if that's their rule and they enforced it if I showed up for a visit, I would happily choose to either change clothes or leave. No part of me thinks they owe it to me to relax their standards or change their rules for what amounts to nothing more than my entertainment.

I don't think the rule is intended to hurt feelings. I do think "no thanks" would be a perfect response if they asked you to comply. :)
 
Justice1976 said:
Theoretically, if I ever decided to visit HAC and attend a chapel service and perhaps walk around the campus and brought my wife who would be wearing slacks, would she/we be welcomed? I'm sure this has happened in the past to someone.

And I state again, this is a theoretical question, because I think my wife would probably suffer a stroke, heart attack or something similar at such a visit, because while I have attempted to inform her of the life I lived there fifty years ago, I don't think that someone outside "the camp" (she was brought up Methodist) could ever really appreciate how that place is from a verbal description. I would like to avoid a near death experience for her if possible. 😆
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I honestly don't think anyone would care if your wife wore pants to HAC.
 
Least of These said:
I don't think they have any obligation - moral, religious or legal - to allow visits from anyone, especially someone who has no interest in becoming a student (and a female who "doesn't wear skirts" obviously has no interest in becoming a student.) I don't see it as inhospitable or divisive. The campus isn't a church, a tourist attraction, or a public meeting place; they don't owe anyone a sight-seeing jaunt through the place they work and live.

I can't say if the college would deny entry or ask a female in pants to leave - hopefully someone has that answer for you. But if that's their rule and they enforced it if I showed up for a visit, I would happily choose to either change clothes or leave. No part of me thinks they owe it to me to relax their standards or change their rules for what amounts to nothing more than my entertainment.

I don't think the rule is intended to hurt feelings. I do think "no thanks" would be a perfect response if they asked you to comply. :)
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Exactly. If you knowingly arrive somewhere sporting the taboo articles, you're just being a troublemaker.
 
I have to say I agree with @Least of These on this. HAC is a private Christian college. They’re entitled to their beliefs and rules, even if quirky and non-accommodating toward the outside community. As long as whatever they’re doing doesn’t break state and federal laws, they can be as weird and unfriendly to outsiders as they wish. I’m not saying it’s the biblical approach, but it is their right to hold both students and non-students alike to their standards while on their private property.
 
Jo said:
I'm just going to say it. Not allowing women to wear pants is ridiculous.
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Sure it’s ridiculous, but as a private college, they have the right to enforce their ridiculous policies. That’s my only point.

I was once playing as a guest at a private golf club in the area. The shirt I was wearing to play in that day didn’t have a traditional collar. I was asked by an employee to either go into the clubhouse and buy a collared shirt or leave their property. I didn’t think it was fair, but I had to pull out my wallet and conform.
 
I deeply regret asking this question, even hypothetically. It has dredged up old memories of the absurdity that was my reality fifty years ago.
 
Justice1976 said:
I deeply regret asking this question, even hypothetically. It has dredged up old memories of the absurdity that was my reality fifty years ago.
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But here’s the thing, no one has said that they believe women should not wear pants. The issue is whether a private Christian college should be allowed to apply the same standard to outside visitors as students and faculty. While I find the issue silly, in good conscience I cannot say that a private religious college should be legally forbidden to not apply its standards to visitors. Are you saying they should be legally forced to do so?

BTW, just a couple months ago I visited a private Christian college with my daughter. In plain black and white, there was a section that described the expected dress code while visiting campus for a tour. Granted it wasn’t as strict as a school like HAC, but nonetheless there was a visitor code of conduct and dress code.
 
Dr. Duck said:
But here’s the thing, no one has said that they believe women should not wear pants. The issue is whether a private Christian college should be allowed to apply the same standard to outside visitors as students and faculty.
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But if no one is saying women should not wear pants, why would a private Christian college have a rule banning women from wearing pants?

It's because the church with which the college is affiliated preaches that it's a sin for women to wear pants because they "pertaineth unto a man" (Deut. 22:5). The dress code isn't merely to maintain a certain level of decorum.
 
Sherryh said:
Cindy is a favorite person that I think alot of she has overcome many things. If she wants to wear pants more power to her.
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I agree with you, Sherry, that Cindy has overcome much in these last years. I’m sure she’s done much soul searching about all things Hammond during this time.

But I wonder if she has ever thought “If my husband hadn’t been messing around with a teenager, I would probably still be up in Indiana, trying to keep from slipping on the ice in my culottes!” 🤭
 
Well, to answer the original question by @Justice1976, as of this school year, apparently HAC now allows women to wear pants (see post with video above). Case closed.
 
Least of These said:
Even if you don't share their views, isn't it appropriate to abide by them if you're asking to enter & tour their private property? Would the purpose in refusing be to defy/offend? To take a stand against their practices? To draw attention to yourselves?

I don't consider the college an evangelical outreach program - it's (theoretically) a training ground for the already like-minded. I assume (or at least hope) the church itself doesn't turn people away based on attire, but see the college as something else entirely.

I'm an HBHS grad who, at 17, chose to (a) wear pants and (b) NOT attend HAC. WE don't have dress codes at our class reunions, but If I ever visit the old high school with the intent of going inside, I'll wear a skirt (if that's what their rules are.)
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That’s fair. I respect that.
 
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