Wives, Sisters, and Daughters, Please Speak

[Ekklesian]

She said she'd accidentally opened the first one she received without checking the mailing address and was horrified that the large manila envelope contained images of men and boys engaged in sex. She asked me what she should do, and I told her to burn them.

You didn't advise her to take it to the police?

 

[Jo]

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
Luke 17:2 IN THE

Looks like the death penalty for child molesters as well.

What I find interesting about the Heritage Christian Academy in Haslet, TX case is that it was the parents of a student who called the authorities - not the pastor/principal/father of the church whose son was arrested for the molestation or even one of their family members - not another teacher in the school - IT WAS THE PARENTS OF A STUDENT IN THE SCHOOL!

When I taught at a Christian school in the 1980s, I heard the church secretary quit. When I asked a mutual friend why that was, she said, "the preacher wanted to hire his son!" The same son who made advances to the secretary's daughter and others!!

This is repeated over and over again. Please watch over the victims.

 

[ALAYMAN]

…

When I taught at a Christian school in the 1980s, I heard the church secretary quit. When I asked a mutual friend why that was, she said, "the preacher wanted to hire his son!" The same son who made advances to the secretary's daughter and others!!

Was this preacher’s son married? Was the secretary’s daughter married? Was she a minor?

Just trying to make sure of the full context, not doubting or denying there’s a certain element of IFBs (and others) that sweep wrongdoings under the rug by shipping offenders off to faraway unsuspecting locations.

 

[Ekklesian]

I started this thread as a continuation of a conversation from my thread entitled "Dave and Paula's Wedding."

It has bothered me for years when "good men do nothing." Especially regarding the victims of sexual abuse in the IFB world.

Over ten years ago, I sat across from a pastor and his wife whom I knew when I taught at a Christian school. The Jack Schaap scandal came out the year before, and I read enough to feel confident that it was true. The pastor in Indiana said to me, "IF it's true....."

I looked him in the eye and said, "Oh, it's true."

We were both quiet after that. I was not going to back down. I saw the polished shaft "sermon" on youtube, etc.

All of that to say, I think the women who are sisters, wives, ex-wives, daughters of predators in the IFB should speak out. Please share your truth.

David's ex-wife publicly shared what she knew. Linda shared what she knew. There are the victims who spoke in "Let Us Prey."

If you know something or saw something and want to share it, please do so....either here or share where it will be heard.

It's time for "good women" to talk.

I would love to hear what Brenda Stevens Hyles has to say.

I live above an Hispanic family. I'm a day sleeper, but I was woken one day by a loud crying out, the woman living below me clearly in anguish. In the avalanche of words I could make out Señor, and Jesus (Hey-soose) several times. I began to pray for her.

She clearly believed the Lord was her deliverer.

 

[Bruh]

What I find interesting about the Heritage Christian Academy in Haslet, TX case is that it was the parents of a student who called the authorities - not the pastor/principal/father of the church whose son was arrested for the molestation or even one of their family members - not another teacher in the school - IT WAS THE PARENTS OF A STUDENT IN THE SCHOOL!

When I taught at a Christian school in the 1980s, I heard the church secretary quit. When I asked a mutual friend why that was, she said, "the preacher wanted to hire his son!" The same son who made advances to the secretary's daughter and others!!

This is repeated over and over again. Please watch over the victims.

We agree. Very well articulated.

 

[Bruh]

Was this preacher’s son married? Was the secretary’s daughter married? Was she a minor?

Just trying to make sure of the full context, not doubting or denying there’s a certain element of IFBs (and others) that sweep wrongdoings under the rug by shipping offenders off to faraway unsuspecting locations.

“The same son who made advances to the secretary's daughter and others!!”

Does it matter at this point. Look at what he did. If a man or woman does this they should never be on a church staff in any role.

 

[ALAYMAN]

“The same son who made advances to the secretary's daughter and others!!”

Does it matter at this point. Look at what he did. If a man or woman does this they should never be on a church staff in any role.

Again, you seem to see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe before facts are considered. Getting questions answered gives us context and would clear things up. I’m sure Jo can do that.

For instance, what does “advances” mean? Did he grope her? Did he use inappropriate language?

Is a single guy not allowed to ask a single girl out at his own church if he’s the preacher son?

 

[Bruh]

Again, you seem to see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe before facts are considered. Getting questions answered gives us context and would clear things up. I’m sure Jo can do that.

For instance, what does “advances” mean? Did he grope her? Did he use inappropriate language?

Is a single guy not allowed to ask a single girl out at his own church if he’s the preacher son?

If all he did was ask a girl out….Ill be shocked.

Yes, a single guy even the pastors son is allowed to ask a girl out…no issues there. But the implication is that it was inappropriate.

See, something like this…..as far as cheating or flirting with someone other than my wife I can admit but for the grace of God there go I.

Hey @Starlifter put in the right situation using your example BUT INSERT A CONSENTING ADULT FEMALE under the right circumstances yeah sure I’m human. If the signs are there that the other woman is into me. God help me.

But the example you gave, NO ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!

 

[ALAYMAN]

If all he did was ask a girl out….Ill be shocked.

Yes, a single guy even the pastors son is allowed to ask a girl out…no issues there. But the implication is that it was inappropriate.

This thread was started, ostensibly, to discuss details of how to deal with the problem of abuse in churches. Simply saying “made advances” isn’t particularly helpful in understanding specifically what errors or sins are being glossed over or tolerated. The vagueness of such assertions don’t further the conversation in any meaningful way. I’m sure Jo will clarify what she meant, and if not, it smacks of being a bit gossipy.

 

[Jo]

Sometimes I forget people cannot read my mind when I write.

I believe the guy was married at the time or shortly thereafter. I heard from reliable sources that he was exposing himself to a few of the teenage girls. The age span was similar to JE and DH.

I knew the girl and her secretary/mother as did most people in the church. The mother and her daughter were well respected, thus she agreed to be the church secretary. Because her daughter confided circumstances to her that were very uncomfortable, not just a request for a date, the whole thing made sense to me at the time.

Thankfully, the pastor's son was not given a staff position. I don't remember what happened next. I moved on shortly thereafter.

Unfortunately, none of the pastor's kids in this scenario had a good reputation. There were legitimate complaints, but I don't know if there were ever charges filed.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Sometimes I forget people cannot read my mind when I write.

I believe the guy was married at the time or shortly thereafter. I heard from reliable sources that he was exposing himself to a few of the teenage girls. The age span was similar to JE and DH.

I knew the girl and her secretary/mother as did most people in the church. The mother and her daughter were well respected, thus she agreed to be the church secretary. Because her daughter confided circumstances to her that were very uncomfortable, not just a request for a date, the whole thing made sense to me at the time.

Thankfully, the pastor's son was not given a staff position. I don't remember what happened next. I moved on shortly thereafter.

Unfortunately, none of the pastor's kids in this scenario had a good reputation. There were legitimate complaints, but I don't know if there were ever charges filed.

Thank you for elaborating Jo. If these were credible reports, as you say, were they ever reported to the pastor and leadership of the church? Was church discipline ever brought to any of the pastor’s children, particularly the incidents of exposure and sexually deviant behavior?

 

[AverageJoe]

Well, at least if he repents he can be a member of a church again and be restored to fellowship.

I'm never going to let someone just walk back in as a church member without repentance and accountability for the rest of his life. I've seen far too many reinstalled into churches in areas of responsibility, and this should NEVER happen.

 

[AverageJoe]

“no one should ever have to live in fear because a rapist is walking the streets”

But you are absolutely ok with him in your church as a member.

Wow...thank GOD that YOU are not GOD. God forgives. God cleans people up and restores them. If you don't believe this, may YOU are part of the problem as well as the rapist. If they're never able to be restored, with restrictions and accountability, and fellowship, then, and I apologize for being so blunt, why in hell should they even worry about trying? If you don't believe GOD can change lives, then why are you even on this forum. All I've ever seen you do is be filled with a spirit that isn't from God. GEESH!

 

[Jo]

Thank you for elaborating Jo. If these were credible reports, as you say, were they ever reported to the pastor and leadership of the church? Was church discipline ever brought to any of the pastor’s children, particularly the incidents of exposure and sexually deviant behavior?

If church discipline was ever used, I'd be surprised. However, I'm a woman and was unmarried at the time; therefore, I wouldn't know. I just hoped and continue to hope for the best. The son moved to another state, remarried, and had children of his own.

One of the reasons I feel that no church discipline was applied is due to the fact that I sat in the same church during the 80s when the same pastor had all of us practice standing up to cheer when Dave H. walked into the auditorium. This was after he had been sent to Miller Road. I believe the pastor knew or should have known what brought Dave to Miller Road.

 

[ALAYMAN]

If church discipline was ever used, I'd be surprised. However, I'm a woman and was unmarried at the time; therefore, I wouldn't know.

I’m seriously curious, what does your gender and marital status have to with knowing if discipline was conducted?

One of the reasons I feel that no church discipline was applied is due to the fact that I sat in the same church during the 80s when the same pastor had all of us practice standing up to cheer when Dave H. walked into the auditorium. This was after he had been sent to Miller Road. I believe the pastor knew or should have known what brought Dave to Miller Road.

Sad, really sad. I think I’ve told this story on here before, but it falls in line with the rockstar preacher culture you speak of.

I was a young impressionable budding fundamentalist, not really using my critical thinking skills as much as I was prone to do given my scientific education. I wanted badly to grow in faith and believed what my pastor said to me at the time. He took me and my wife to a revival a couple hours away, where for the first and only time I heard Jack Hyles preach in person.

I didn’t really know what to think about any of the type of Christianity that I was encountering because I was saved in a non-denominational church, and by most hard-core IFB standards of evaluation I was pretty left-leaning. Every female in the auditorium had a dress on and essentially every male had a jacket and tie on. It was culture shock for me for sure.

When Hyles came out, everybody stood up and started cheering wildly. I had never seen anything like it in church and the closest thing to it that I had seen was at secular rock concerts. It went on for what seemed like 10 minutes. I was getting uncomfortable, physically, and spiritually. After the meeting, though I wanted to say good things about the experience to my pastor, I told him I wasn’t sure about all the fawning, to which he assured me it was not what it looked like (a form of potential idolatry), but was all just done in good fun. It was one of those moments that gave me enough pause that I began to have doubts about Hyles cult of personality. Now, with all I know, from stories like yours, I see how such unbiblical practices such as not bringing DH to church disciplinary action and ultimately shipping him off to Garland was able to be done with minimal pushback.

 

[Bruh]

Wow...thank GOD that YOU are not GOD. God forgives. God cleans people up and restores them. If you don't believe this, may YOU are part of the problem as well as the rapist. If they're never able to be restored, with restrictions and accountability, and fellowship, then, and I apologize for being so blunt, why in hell should they even worry about trying? If you don't believe GOD can change lives, then why are you even on this forum. All I've ever seen you do is be filled with a spirit that isn't from God. GEESH!

“no one should ever have to live in fear because a rapist is walking the streets”

You said this not me.

How can you say that and at the same time welcome them with open arms as members in your church with women and children?

You believe I’m part of the problem? No actually that attitude right there is actually part of the problem.

The child molester created the problem. This is because of what he did, not me. This is all because he raped a child all of the blame is on him. This is all because of him and HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME!!

Go ahead and continue to put me in the same basket as a child molester. You are revealing yourself.

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH FORGIVENESS BUT EVERYTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

These people become members and backslide on one of the children in your church. That will be on you for allowing them to be there.

They backslide and start lusting after the children in your church. You are actually putting temptation in front of them.

You’re trying to get someone off alcohol because he’s an alcoholic. You invite him to your house and have a 12 pack of Bud light.

How on earth does this make sense to you????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!

 

[ALAYMAN]

“no one should ever have to live in fear because a rapist is walking the streets”

You said this not me.

Nope, AverageJoe never said that. Biscuit did in post# 101. And I believe his point there was to rightly rail against lenient sentencing policies of judges. Likewise I believe he was speaking against such leniency especially for offenders who are/were unrepentant.

 

[abcaines]

“no one should ever have to live in fear because a rapist is walking the streets”

Which is why I don't like sex offender registries. If someone has to be on a registry because he can't be trusted, why is that person even out on the streets?

Has a registry ever prevented an offense?

 

[Jo]

I’m seriously curious, what does your gender and marital status have to with knowing if discipline was conducted?

Sad, really sad. I think I’ve told this story on here before, but it falls in line with the rockstar preacher culture you speak of.

I was a young impressionable budding fundamentalist, not really using my critical thinking skills as much as I was prone to do given my scientific education. I wanted badly to grow in faith and believed what my pastor said to me at the time. He took me and my wife to a revival a couple hours away, where for the first and only time I heard Jack Hyles preach in person.

I didn’t really know what to think about any of the type of Christianity that I was encountering because I was saved in a non-denominational church, and by most hard-core IFB standards of evaluation I was pretty left-leaning. Every female in the auditorium had a dress on and essentially every male had a jacket and tie on. It was culture shock for me for sure.

When Hyles came out, everybody stood up and started cheering wildly. I had never seen anything like it in church and the closest thing to it that I had seen was at secular rock concerts. It went on for what seemed like 10 minutes. I was getting uncomfortable, physically, and spiritually. After the meeting, though I wanted to say good things about the experience to my pastor, I told him I wasn’t sure about all the fawning, to which he assured me it was not what it looked like (a form of potential idolatry), but was all just done in good fun. It was one of those moments that gave me enough pause that I began to have doubts about Hyles cult of personality. Now, with all I know, from stories like yours, I see how such unbiblical practices such as not bringing DH to church disciplinary action and ultimately shipping him off to Garland was able to be done with minimal pushback.

I was being a bit snarky regarding being a woman and unmarried.

Women are not allowed to be deacons in the IFB, and I'm guessing the church would try to keep things pk's did under wraps. If I had been married to a deacon, it's possible my husband would have known and might have told me if church discipline was used. All of that is conjecture on my part.

I met some wonderful lifelong friends at that IFB church, and I was very fortunate to not have a DH in my life.

A church body is like a family. We forgive members of our family, but not always, nor all the time. We try to hold them accountable and hope they look the other way when we do wrong.

I don't have all the answers, but I am glad the forum allows us to discuss the history of the IFB, the problems of the IFB, and how we can help its members stay safe.

 

[Bruh]

Nope, AverageJoe never said that. Biscuit did in post# 101. And I believe his point there was to rightly rail against lenient sentencing policies of judges. Likewise I believe he was speaking against such leniency especially for offenders who are/were unrepentant.

Yeah you right my bad. I looked back. OOPS! Thanks ALAYMAN for pointing that out. Sorry @AverageJoe